I want to start hand cutting dovetails. What books, videos, and tools should I buy? I plan on buying a Lie-Neilsen dovetail saw. What size chisel, or chisels should I have. Also, I’ve seen marking aids in mail order catalog. Are they helpful or a waste of time and money?
Replies
Welcome to Knots. I'm sure someone will come along to answer your question eventually. Lots of Knots readers only check in once a day, and others don't check in at all on the weekends. So 2 hours and 14 minutes with no answer on a Saturday afternoon really doesn't mean we're ignoring you.
In the meantime, we discuss hand cut dovetails every now and then, so you might want to search the archives. Use the Advanced Search button near the top of the left hand frame. The other search button, near the bottom, is largely useless.
Also, not posting your questions in multiple folders helps us help you. It's hard to get everybody's reactions and feedback if half the participants are following one thread and half are following another. And some of us get confused when we see a message that we thought we already answered.
Mr. Wood, The book I would recomend is the Tage Frid teaches woodworking, vol. #1,by the Taunton press. When I first started cutting them the book took me right through it and they came out perfect ( maybe I just got lucky ) . The other tools you will need are a bevel square and a marking guage. Good Luck Petey
I suggest that for less than the price of that saw you have your eye on, you can buy a servicable generic dovetail saw, bevel, marking knife and bevel edge paring chisel, AND a dozen board feet of good hardwood to build your first dovetailed box. Several old saws on Ebay presently, or Woodcraft, or Constantines, or Woodworker's Supply ... all have online catalogs. Expect a good quality new saw @ <$50 possibly <$25. Run through the FWW index for several articles ... or someone else can advise a good recent text. Good Luck
John in middle Tennessee
Welcome to wood working, don't spend all your money on an LN saw just yet. Go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy a set of Marples chisels for about $20.00. You will get 4 chisels that are a good set to start out on, buy a Japanese dovetail saw while you are there, less than $30.00. Both these places will probably have a book section and pick up a book that shows you how to cut dovetails. I find it hard to believe anybody could write a book on cutting a dovetail, a page or two maybe but not a whole book. There is no big deal about cutting dovetails, just do it, you will be surprised how easy it is too master. Like many other skills, it takes practice.
Warning! After you have mastered dovetails, You will be checking ever drawer you come across for dovetails and critique them. Any you other wood butchers that read this don't deny it, you do too.
God Bless
les
I bought the L-N saw to do just what you are getting ready to do. L-N also has a video on how to handcut dovetails which I got and found it very helpful. I didn't (and still can't) cut perfect dovetails, so maybe the Tag Fried book is the way to go. The saw is outstanding.
Alex
When you build your first drawer, I suggest you start with one of the BACK CORNERS. The primary component of a good joint is your eye-hand skill. It develops with practise and your last joint will look better than the first.
Good luck, Jerry
Firewood,
I am a rookie dovetail cutter. Seems two things that help are practice, practice, and more practice.. And I found them much easier to cut after I bought the same LN that you are considering.. I also found article in FWW #157 'Building a traditional dovetailed drawer' helpful... I still find half blinds are harder than full, but I guess more practice will help that situation out
Hope this helps... and goodluck
Thanks everyone for the advise. I'm still going to go ahead and get the LN saw. In my experience I've found that if the best tool is purchased first, you don't have to purchase things twice. Nice thing about practicing dovetails, I can do it in the comfort of a warm basement.
here's one discussion:
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-knots&msg=7126.1
and another good one:
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-knots&msg=7180.1
Cheers,
eddie
Firewood:
I agree with Tim from Toronto. I bought several books on dovetailing and then bought the Frank Klaus video from FWW several years ago. It's great. I watch it every time I'm going to do dovetails for a refresher. For small jobs of several drawers I found it's faster to do than setting up my Omni-Jig.
I just borrowed for the second time a video from Taunton by Frank Klaus (spelling?) on cutting dovetails by hand. I think its a great video. He doesn't much around with all these finicky measurements, just relies on his hand-eye co-ordination and his eye for nice looking proportions.
It may look like something that only a pro can do, but trust me, I'd never cut a dovetail before in my life and by paying close attention to just a few things that he points out in the video, my dovetails turned out quite nicely.
Tim
I would agree with the suggestion of the Marples chisles from HD. Best deal going that I have seen, mine always seem to find their way to the concrete floor just after I have sharpened them. Tage Frids' book on joinery/woodworking is what helped me the most, but I havn't seen the video by Klaus. It took me about 10 hours to finally get the "flow" going in cutting dovetails.
I used only hard wood when practicing, mostly oak, alot of initial frustration and experimentation and then they kind of came together. I believe Frid emphasizes to try to cut it perfect the first time verses "paring" things to fit after you cut, I found this to be true as well. Paring just added to my frustration. I did try a Japanese saw first, then tried a western saw, I prefer the western type dovetail saw. I would suggest trying both then make your choice based on what worked better for you.
They truely are not difficult to cut. What was difficult for me was attaining the elegant look of a nicely cut dovetail, symetrical on both sides and the "needle" pins that are impossible to achieve with a router bit. Good luck, just take your time and as was stated, practice, practice, practice.
I started cutting dovetails by hand about a year ago, and am now a 'hand cut dovetail' snob. I learned a few tricks from friends and videos, and here's what I'd suggest you try:
- Marples Blue chip chisels
- A wheel-type marking gauge, like http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=42440&category=1,42936&ccurrency=2&SID=, so as not to score the wood too roughly.
- A fine toothed, Zona modeller's saw for a very slow, straight cut: http://www.faimodelsupply.com/fai-zona.html. I tried some of the regular ones, and they just cut too fast for me, even on hardwoods like Oak or Maple.
- 'Hand Made dovetails w/ Tage Frid' video: http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/014004.asp
I saw this video, and the first set of dovetails I cut turned out great. Just take your time, do your best, and don't expect to master it right away. If you pace yourself, you'll love it and won't be able to stop when dinnertime rolls around.
Put up some photos of how they turn out!
Rob
Hi Rob,
I had completely forgotten about the Zona saw. The gentleman who taught me how to do marquetry used a Zona saw. At the time I was not paying much attention because I was not cutting dovetails.
When I read your post, it all came back. He cut beautiful dovetails, and I remember him making fun of all the fancy and expensive saws available. He would brag about the fact that his saw cost $8.00 and his chisels were bought at the flea market.
Since I did not pay attention to the specific one he used, I will ask you. If you would not mind, which Zona saw do you use? They have several different ones on their web site.
Rogue,
The guy that told you about Zona saws sounds awfully like the guy I learned about them from, Arnie Champagne in San Francisco. Coincidence?
Anyhow, I think the 52 tpi saw on this page, http://www.faimodelsupply.com/fai-zona.html, would be the best bet. I can't remember which one I use as I got it at a woodworking show and naturally didn't pay much attention to which one it was. It only cost $8!
For making really tiny dovetails, you could make your own chisels for fun with a hand cranked grinding wheel, which are hard to find, or buy these at Lee Valley: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=44106&category=1,130,43332,43334&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID=. Careful, though; they bend and break easily!
Have fun!
Rob
Bingo!
Small world isn't it? Maybe you were in the same class that I was in. I was there in May of last year I think, for marquetry. If so, did you go back to learn how to do dovetails? I did not , probably missed out, but I did learn eventually.
Anyway, everything I make now always has a bit of marquetry or inlay in it. I learned alot from Arne and have been able to build on it quite a bit since then. Take care, thanks for the update on the Zona saw.
HA! Wow, it certainly is a small world!
I never took a class from Arnie, but I met him at the show 2 yrs ago, and watched him do dovetails. He was pitching the marquetry class pretty hard, but I didn't have the time or money to try it out. I've got too many house projects now to even think about it, but that Zona saw trick was worth its weight in gold!
Check out that Tage Frid video for another point of view on dovetails. It's all about practice, as you've said before. It seems to me that if you asked 10 woodworkers how to cut dovetails, you'd get 12 different answers!
See ya!
Rob
I also met him at a woodworking show, but in Sacramento. He was cracking me up. He was trashing everyone in the building that was selling anything. I'm thinking, who is this guy? but his work he had on display was excellent.
We got to talking, and as you said, he was pushing his classes pretty hard, but I was very hesitant. I forgot how, but it did come up that he had spent 2 years at the College of the Redwoods, that got my attention. So I took the plunge and signed up.
It really was worth it. Aside from the marquetry, he answered alot of questions for me about cutting veneers and veneering, edge treatment and so on, which up until that time had been a mystery. I was able to glean alot of very helpfull information from him, and it has enabled me to go into a whole new world for me in woodworking.
I will probably take another class from him in the future, just do not know when or what. In the mean time I am going to get a Zona saw and see how it compares to how I am currently cutting dovetails.
Take care
If I might add my two cents...
A couple of years ago I purchased a Leigh D4 dovetail jig and have yet to use it. Since I'm not a production shop, each time I have a project I end up cutting the dovetails by hand. After a while you really get into it and its actually fun. I will probably end up selling the jig as I can't see ever using it.
Right on, Bill. There's a lot to be said for a good pair of eyes and hands instead of machines and dust masks.
FW,
You won't be disappointed with the LN dovetail saw, if you go for the rosewood handle you may even be tempted to mount it over your fireplace like a shotgun. If you buy the Tage video(I thought it was great) you'll see he uses a piece of bandsaw blade to help chopout halfblinds. When you order your saw, order the set of scraper blades as well. Two reasons, first they pay for themselves in no time. Second, the thinner of the two is made from the same steel steel as the saw blade so it's the same thickness. I cut a kerf with my saw into a piece of hardwood about 1/2x1/2x3 to slide over the scraper which then slides into the half blind a few taps and your done. Deburr it sharpen it blah,blah,blah you'll know what to do.
P.S. I know for 1/4 of the money I could have used this or that.
Mark
As a beginner I like the book " The Complete Dovetail" by Ian Kirby. There is lots of
information about practice and making the common dovetails and a few less common.
It really is addressed to beginners.
Rod
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