I am looking to acquire a hand plane for the purpose of flattening (jointing) wood in preparation for the thickness planer. I am the type that generally shy’s away from non power tools, but I want to acquire the ability to flatten a board with a hand plane. After reading what I can find here and other forums, the subject, I have decided to go with Lie-Nielson. There are so many types and so many numbers within type. After digesting as much as my brain can take, I have reached an impasse. If you were wanting to perform the jointing function, which plane, or planes would you suggest? Thanks in advance
Edited 1/14/2005 5:11 pm ET by bones
Replies
Ideally, both the low-angle jack and the jointer. Practically, the low-angle jack because it's more versatile.
Depending on how rough the boards are, I use the #40 1/2, #62 and #7 in that order....
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I agree with Mark that the low-angle jack is the way to go (unless you want to spring for a low-angle jointer, which will allow flatter stock, but is less versatile.) I use my low-anglejack--the #62--for most everything now. Ideally, I'd get a toothed blade--for fast stock removal--in addition to the standard blade supplied with the plane. It takes outrageous amounts of material--almost as good as a scrub plane--with no tearout at all.
And, be aware that with this plane you can change the angle of the attack with just a few quick strokes on the 1000 grit and then 8000 grit stones (or you could buy extra blades and hone them to various angles so they'd be ready to go). This will allow you to work effectively with nearly any type of wood with that one plane; you might not know: different woods call for different blade angles, that's part of why we all collect so many planes. Hard wavy-grained woods wnat a high andgle, for example, while straight-grained softwoods benefit from a lower one. The #62, with a little patience, can do almost all of it. I frequently use mine for end-grain, initial flattening, even smoothing on softwoods, 'cause the low-angle gives a better finish.
Now, you'll also need a bunch of sharpening stuff if you don't already have it. No plane, no matter how well made, will perform with a dull blade. If you can't afford that stuff and the plane, I'd wait to buy the plane or you might just get frustrated with hand planing and miss out on my favorite part of the whole endeavor.
Charlie
I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Edited 1/14/2005 5:52 pm ET by CharlieD
Thanks for all the help every body. I know I'll need the sharpening stuff to go with the plane. I'm pursuing that as well. I have budgeted for 2 planes and gear to handle the sharpening. I think sharpening has been what has been holding me away from planes. It's pretty intimidating. I have been looking at all the different types of sharpening equipment.
During delta days at woodcraft, A vendor gave a demonstration of diamond paste on mdf. That was pretty interesting. I have had recommendations on different types of stones as well. I have given the glass & sand paper method consideration. Decisions decisions!
The Lie-Nielsen rep at the Denver WW show used a granite flattening plate ($30, WoodCraft), some 120 grit wet or dry paper, two 1000 grit water stones ($40) an 8000 grit waterstone ($60), and an Eclipse style jig ($15). His irons were so sharp that he could cut a hair from his arm without touching the skin. When you're ready I'd be happy to describe his exact technique in detail.It's completely do-able; whatever system you choose, it's doable. You need a flat surface, some kind of abrasive, a bit of theory/know-how and some practice. A jig will do away with the need for practice, somewhat. It's really not that bad.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K VonnegutEdited 1/14/2005 11:46 pm ET by CharlieD
Edited 1/14/2005 11:46 pm ET by CharlieD
I'm curious, how was the rep grinding the initial bevel?
Mark, he didn't demo that, but we DID talk about it, because he was telling me that if I do not use a ginder that regrinding the bevel should be 23 deg not 25; his logic was something relating to how quickly the 2ndary bevel will get roiunded over and have to be ground off to start over. The hollow grinding of the primary bevel aids in this at 25 deg, but you get more longevity at 23 deg with a flat bevel or so he says. I haven't had to do it yet, so I haven't really thought it all out, but I remember what he said. The subject came up b/c he asked about my grinder, which I had to admit was an unmitigated piece of feces (I've since bought an 8" slow speed with white wheels from WoodCraft for $75--whatta deal!)CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
bones,
Be very careful Bones, your about to walk through a doorway from which there is no return. The wood will show you how beautiful it can be (but only glimpses in the beginning) when treated appropriately. You'll gain new respect for the knowledge and tallents of a fine furniture maker..and, alas, less respect for what you've produced in the past.
The first time you see the wood glimmer back at you, or hear the sound of a truly sharp plane you'll know you are smitten. All the different plane and sharpening options are nothing more than an attempt to get a repeat and more of those initial experiences. Personnally, I'd start with the 'scary sharp' method because the cost is low and jigs reduce the variability significantly. Eventually you'll graduate to one or two stones and stroping for quick, accurate results.
As far a planes go, I'd plan on buying many more than a couple...and in some cases , duplicates. I'll bet you'll soon want to smooth the board after the planer.
My shoulder and elbow can't take it for long any more. A scrub plane first to level off any protruding high spots, also on the back so the stock won't rock on the bench. 06 fore plane next, called a fore because it is used before others. Often this is used in a diagonal pattern across the surface, first one direction, then the other. This will get the surface flat enough for a power planer. If continuing with hand planes, 05 jack plane next, used with the grain to start smoothing the surface, 04 smoother to get a fine surface, followed by a cabinet scraper. The long joiners, 07, 08, are better for edge work.
If you are looking for hand methods to take the place of a wide joiner, you aren't concerned with finish, just getting 75% of it reasonably straight and flat. The planer will do the finishing and thickness.
If I was going to spend the money Lie Nielsen's cost, it would be for the smoother. The rest of the work is just hogging off. You can always buy their York pitch frog or toothing blades to accessorize.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hi bones. A lot of ways to skin a cat here. I use a scrub first followed by a #8 and finally a 4 1/2 smoother. If you need to remove a lot of wood there is no comparison to a scrub. The next operation is to flatten the board and the best tool is the longest one the #8. The only reason not to use a 8 [other than not owning one] is the weight. I don't find this a realistic factor since you are not lifting the tool and the mass that you are pushing makes tough grain easy. When the board is perfectly flat you just need to smooth like usual. There are 2 excellent videos available at the L N website. David Charlesworths and Rob Cosmans, they will both teach you how to sharpen and how to flatten a board by hand. They tell you what planes to use and why. Good luck.
bones
I can second everything Peter just said, except I use a #7 vs a #8. (I'll get a #8 next Y/E bonus!)
Also, get the Rob Cosman Rough to Ready DVD from Lie-Nielsen before you plop your money down. A Scrub Plane, #7 and # 4 1/2 from L-N is going to cost you +/- $845 (add $75 for a #8).
I would pass on the LA Jointer #7 1/2 or the LA Jack #62 if all you're trying to do is save money. The LA Smoother #164 is a good tool but the #4 1/2 is more versatile, especially with the High Angle Frog (+$75)_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
"I would pass on the LA Jointer #7 1/2 or the LA Jack #62 if all you're trying to do is save money. The LA Smoother #164 is a good tool but the #4 1/2 is more versatile, especially with the High Angle Frog (+$75)"Michael, I have to respectfully disagree. I own the #4 smoother, and the York pitch frog. Alsao, the #62 low-angle jack plane. I bought them at the same time, directly from the L-N rep at a Denver WW show. My original plan was to buy a scrub and a smoother. The rep talked me out of that, and into the #62, specifically because it's the most versatile plane they have available. I sat with him for hours while he demo'd various planes for customers; what a gift! I watched him vary the 2ndary bevel angle on the #62 until he got the perfect angle for the curly maple he was working. (That angle turned out to be just the same as the York frog. No accident, I'm sure.)Anyway, the short story on this is that because the bevel is up on the low-angle planes, you can vary the cutting angle with just a few quick passes on your waterstones, and adust the mouth to compensate (the equivalent of adjusting the frog on a standard bench design.) I'm using the #62 constantly, and while the #4 is a marvel, I find myself wishing I'd bought a low-angle smoother too. I actually might add one.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Charlie
I have only used a #62 once, so I'll defer to you on the #62, besides, I have a #5 1/2 Jack, #4 1/2 Smooth and a #164 LA Smoother so I have you surrounded. ;>)
I had an opportunity to take a #7 1/2 LA Jointer home to try before I bought the #7. The #7 1/2 does not have an adjustable throat or frog making it very difficult to use. The #7 is a dream._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
"I have only used a #62 once, so I'll defer to you on the #62, besides, I have a #5 1/2 Jack, #4 1/2 Smooth and a #164 LA Smoother so I have you surrounded. ;>)"Circle the wagons, here they come..! Wait! I see a path to escape! Ah, ha! Here it is: I forgot to mention that the #62 will scrub using the toothed blade, taking absurdly deep cuts and leaving NO tearout. That exhonerates me somewhat (although I'll still admit that you have a sweet set of planes. What do you use for a shoulder plane? I need one of those babies...)"I had an opportunity to take a #7 1/2 LA Jointer home to try before I bought the #7. The #7 1/2 does not have an adjustable throat or frog making it very difficult to use. The #7 is a dream."I use an old LakeSide #7C that I bought at a flea market in near perfect shape. Can't come close to affording a L-N jointer (sniff...)CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Charlie
What do you use for a shoulder plane? I need one of those babies...)
I have a L-N #60 1/2 R. It is the most used plane I have, being a cross between a LA 60 1/2 and a shoulder plane. Full width blade but no throat adjustment. If I can work a deal at the upcoming show in Santa Clara this April, I might pick up a #9 1/2 or 60 1/2 for its adjustable throat.
I have a very serious L-N addiction with 9 planes and a set of chisels cluttering up my workbench. Fortunately my kids are through college and my wife understands.
_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Edited 1/15/2005 10:54 pm ET by MICHAELP
There are worse--and even more expensive addictions. Did you by any chance notice the Cafe thread on single-malt whiskies? Being addicted to tools of creativity (guitars, microphones, high-end paint brushes, hand planes, whatever) is beyond reproach. I'll grant you this, though--discriminating taste--in anything--is a curse.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Did you by any chance notice the Cafe thread on single-malt whiskies?
Tell me about it. Good friends of ours who have done a lot to help us over the last couple of years are moving back to Maine in a couple of months. The guy half of the friendship just had his sixtieth and for a birthday gift my wife thought we should get him a bottle of his first love - good Scotch Whiskey.
I found a bottle of McCallum 24 year old Scotch - ouch$$ But he did appreciate the gift._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
I was out of commission yesterday doing a Klondike derby (scouts) with my son. It's hilarious watching a bunch of teenagers push a dog sled over fields in 31 degree weather with no snow. Was exhausted last night and could not get caught up on the responses here. Thanks again to every one for helping out on this.
Ok, I still feel like I am in a conversation with people speaking a foreign language, but I am managing to understand bit's & pieces of the conversation. When you speak of changing the blade (toothed blade) to remove large quantities of material, do you mean from a rough board? My thoughts would be to take the rough board and feed it through the planer to get two parallel sides. Use the planes to get one side as flat as possible. Feed it back through the planer to get the two sides equal. Finish the edge with a router table, and rip and cross cut square on the TS. With this in mind, is the scrub still required? And for those with the addiction, I know need has nothing to do with it. I have to decide on the first two, which is not easy.
Edited 1/16/2005 10:20 am ET by bones
Hello again Bones. If I where buying 2 planes to flatten 1 side before going to the thickness planer, I would purchase a scrub and the longest regular angle[bevel down] plane that I could afford. The scrub removes an enormous amount of material and has a short narrow sole. A larger plane references too much surface area to concentrate on a particular spot. The larger reference area may sound like a good idea but if you ever use a scrub, as thousands of yesteryears woodworkers have, you will realize the benefit of a short narrow sole with the convex blade. Another benefit is since it is a rough plane you don't mind too much if you find a piece of "non-wood" stone etc. I work with rough wood as well and I don't like the idea of any expensive blades power or hand held touching the wood even after wire brushing. So after ranting there my next plane would be a long bevel down design. I don't believe bevel up[block planes] can surface a board nearly as well as bevel down. To make them more useful you need to hone to an angle equalling to bevel down planes. My reasoning is that they are a compromise. If you will only buy 1 plane ever then maybe the #62, but if you want to own more than 1 then don't compromise. And lastly I would once again strongly recommend Rob Cosmans Rough to Ready video available at Lie Nielsen. Buy that before you buy any planes.
bones,
As Sgian would say, banana in - banana out. When you take a rough board you need to check it for cup, bow or twist. Some boards can have all three...try not to buy those...lol. You can remove some, if not all, cup with just your planer but to tackle the other aspects either you need a jig like the one on the home page here(see video) or flatten the board first with planes...then use your planer. If you don't flatten first you'll simply replicate the bow or twist except the board will be thinner...
"As Sgian would say, banana in - banana out."
Don't forget the important bit though BG. It goes, regarding thickness planers,
"Banana in, banana out. Thinner banana."
Slainte.RJFurniture
I assume this is for trainee monkeys..???
;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
And even joiners and cabinetmakers, Mike.
But I agree it's sometimes hard to tell the difference, ha, ha. Slainte.RJFurniture
LOL...
exactly what I was thinking...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
You've the right idea but a little out of order. A planer cannot flatten, it can only make the sides parallel. So, you'll use a handplane (or jointer, which I find noisy dangerous and limited) to flatten a side. Then send it through the planer flat side down, and the planer will make the sides parallel and you can keep working 'til you have the right thickness. By the way, that part's not too hard with a handplane either. You're getting a lot of different advice. I'm only advising that you consider the low-angle jack because you're limited in your purchase, and as a single plane it's outrageously versatile. I have lots of others, although they're not L-N. I have a LakeSide jointer, a Stanley #6 (got it for $12 at a used tool shop in perfect shape except that some turd had painted it red.) I also have a Stanly low-angle block, but that has to go. So, I'll be needing a L-N block plane. But, my point here is that there is a plane for every possible job, and ideally you'd have them all. Since you, like me, don't have that option, I thought (as did the L-N rep) that the #62 makes sense. I use mine CONSTANTLY.Re: the toothed blade, you can use it on rough boards for fast flattening, sure. But you can also use it to quickly thickness a board; or maybe I've joined up a panel, and did a lousy job of aligning it; the toothed blade makes short work of leveling it. Here's another weird benefit: with the toothed blade, you can easily see where you've planed and where you haven't. Makes it easier to avoid planing down a corner, or screwing up consistent thickness in some other way. Cover the top with toothed cuts, grab another plane and quickly shave 'em off, grab the toothed #62 again, etc, until you get where you're going.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K VonnegutEdited 1/16/2005 1:04 pm ET by CharlieD
Edited 1/16/2005 1:05 pm ET by CharlieD
Oh, and one more thing: I spent hours watching a guy named Deneb at the Denver show. Plan to do the same if you can. Maybe take a barstool to sit on. Watching that guy, and asking him questions was better than any book, any video, any thing. Enjoy.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Bones,
I got the Lie Nielsen #62, really, really nice. Amongst others, I then followed up with an old Stanley Bailey 6 foreplane on ebay, which is in perfect condition for around $80. Worthy to mention, I got a Stanley Victor 1953, plane in almost new condition for $18.
Similar, I'm a power tool guy, my intention is to still use my 15" planer and 8" jointer, but flatten glued up boards by hand. Also, I'm trying to get away from sanding anything at all, using scrapers and hand planes instead. I have learnt the lesson, that a hand plane allows you an excellent finish, while keeping everything perfectly flat and square, prior to assembly.
Get the video "Rough to Ready" from the Lie-Neilsen library. It is excellent and will answer all your questions, plus provide technique, for this very task. Money well spent.
But your post begs one question: Why, if you shy away from non-power tools, do you want to hand flatten your boards? I'm just curious. I do a ton of hand work and love it. The feel of a hand planed board blows away machine surfaces.
Watch out... you may find yourself addicted. Also, good choice on Lie tools. I have almost all of them and they are, in my mind, the top of the line available today.
thnx
scottd.
A scrubber and a jack plane.
Bones, why don't you call Lie-Nielsen; tell 'em how much money you have and what you want to accomplish, and see what they recommend. Also, if you're going to get a scrub plane, I've seen wood planes by E.C.E. recommended highly. They have 'em at Lee Valley.
Charlie
I have the ECE scrub plane, which I bought at Lee Valley. Based on what I know now, however, I might instead buy the L-N low-angle jack with the extra toothed blade. I haven't tried it myself but understand it takes off the wood pretty quickly.
I have and use the low angle jack, and it's great. It will work well cross grain, or for flattening applications. I flattened a workbench top that I glued up out of stripped maple and it did a great job, and the top came out perfect.The alternative would be the jointer plane from LN for flattening. The drawback is it's really only good for flattening or jointing applications, for the most part.The Jack will give you many more options and applications, and will perform acceptable well for flattening.I've read some of the comments on the plane brands, like ECE. My opposition to the wood planes is the fact that over time the flatness of a wood plane will vary, as will the accuracy of the corners (a true 90 degree corner).I know there is maintenance you can do to them, and certainly correct storage and upkeep will keep them functional for many years. I personally am a big believer that the LN is a plane I will give to my son to use, not keep as a keep sake. I'm not sure I can say that about the woods.There are, I'm sure, many on this forum that could give me some excellent information on the accuracy and longevity of the wood planes available today; and I would be happy for the advice and direction.
thnxscottd.
I've read some of the comments on the plane brands, like ECE. My opposition to the wood planes is the fact that over time the flatness of a wood plane will vary, as will the accuracy of the corners (a true 90 degree corner).
You're going to have a tough time explaining 18th century furniture masterpieces all of which, of course, were built with wooden planes.
I have no idea what you mean by the "accuracy of the corners."
For the original poster: The quality wooden equivalents to the planes that have been suggested (available from Clark & Williams, Steve Knight, ECE, etc.) are more than capable to do every job you need a plane to do.
The bottom of a wood plane does not have to be perfectly flat to work superbly. However, they are easily brought to flat (much easier than a metal plane) when it's necessary to do so.
You mistook my comments for jabs at the capability of the wood plane. Nothing I said questioned capability, or the ability of the wood plane to "work well", as you've identified in classic furniture.My comments were about the longevity of the wood plane, and it's ability to remain flat, and the corners to remain 90 degrees, without lots of maintenance.I also pointed out that I was not a wood plane expert and would appreciate any knowledge about wood plane longevity and accuracy.At the cost of planes today, they are an investment. One that I wish to pass on in a condition of functionality. I was simply passing on that part of my thinking to the other user contemplating the same type of investment.My comments simply stated that I "know" my LN's will be functional and sound when I pass them on. I'm just not sure if wood planes would be as well, given my heavy use of them and the number of years I have left to work (I'm still young).I certainly didn't intend on offending any wood plane users, and actually I had hoped for some other input on the wood planes, from those who know.As for the corners, if you've seen a classic wood plane if doesn't take long to notice the wear to the corner between the sole and the sides. That was my only comment: not good or bad; just a comment on noticed wear.So... if you have specific knowledge on wood planes, their required maintenance and longevity based on the investment, please pass it on. thnxscottd.
scott.... I'm no woodie expert neither, but having recently acquired some, I feel I can comment on their longevity; I've bought some antique moulding planes, some of them well over 100 years old. The only discernable wear I've seen while cleaning them (dust n cobwebs, not patina) has been where you'd expect to see it; strike marks at the heel, similar on the wedge, and witness marks where the irons have been sharpened. The business end of the planes are in fantastic condition.
I guess, like anything else, longevity is dependent on both the care they've received over their lifetime, and the use they've been put to; the more they're used, the faster they'll wear. Either way, these planes were made and bought for a single purpose, for use... putting them into a collectors cabinet would be just plain wrong...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
scott,
In my experience (full time use since 1976), there is not much to worry about in terms of long term usefulness as regards wooden body planes. I have an old beech bodied "coffin" shaped common pitch smoother that I bought in the early '70's and used every day for years after tuning it up and putting a new blade in it . (Old blade was missing.) It is still usable, but I made myself a york pitch smoothing plane out of mahogany, with an ebony sole, in 1990. I use it daily, I go over just about every surface of what I build with it. That plane has passed over acres of wood by now, I've about worn out the blade, and I haven't had to true up the sole yet. My old try plane did move a little, and I had to resurface the sole recently, after about 15 yrs of occasional use. I have a little ECE block plane with lignum vitae sole, and had to true it up once, about the same time I used the blade up and replaced it. Others' mileage may vary, as they say.
As far as the corners of the wooden planes getting boogered up, that won't happen if you use a metal bodied plane to knock down the glue beads before flattening panels. That's all they make Stanleys for, right? I'm not sure why you would need the corner of any bench plane to be exactly 90*, unless it was used with a shooting board.
Regards,
Ray
I appreciate the feedback. Thanks for taking the time and filling me in. I would like to try a few of the newer wood planes, but had been hesitant. thnx again.
scottd.scottdDamschroder Scott Furniture[email protected]A craftsman needs three things: Accuracy, Technique, and Quality. Accuracy can be set; technique can be learned; but quality must be bought and built.
Scottd,
I picked up four old wooden smoothers at an auction(two American, two English...can't tell which is which...less than $10 each) with the objective of building new bodies for the hefty blades. I've been using one for a scrub plane....only a hatchet could remove it faster ...and it's a hell of a lot lighter too.. As much as I appreciate the Bailey design and the quality of the LN planes I'll bet the cabinet makers were very slow to adopt the new metal planes...
I have an old wood jointer plane (I never said I didn't have any) that I got at an antique shop with the same idea as you. I tuned it up and flattened all sides, refinished it and it's beautiful. You're right, it's light and works excellent. I didn't question competence of the units, only length of service, comparing maintenance and upkeep mostly.I agree, they were probably slow to intergrate into shops. For me, I'm so used to the weight of my LN's they are all I reach for anymore. Just personal preference.
thnxscottd.
Yeah, I'm the guy that's been pushing the #62 with the toothed blade. It removes wood quickly indeed, but I don't think it could complete with a genuine scrub plane (something I don't have). What's nice about it is that it does many other jobs well too, and when you do scrub with it, it causes no tearout, saving material (and maybe even time since you don't have to jack plane off your tearout from the scrub). It's a cool tool. I still lust after a real scrubber, though. I've been intimidated by the idea of sharpening that curved blade; how's THAT work?CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Hi Everyone . I am one of the guys pushing the Rob Cosman video at Lie-Nielsen on how to go from Rough To Ready. I thought that I knew how to flatten a board until I learned from Rob in a week long class [learned a lot of other things too]. If you want to work with hand tools, and it sounds like we all do, Rob is literally one of the best. Everyone of us should buy this video because you can learn so much, that you would just never know otherwise. Rob has worked with Peter Korn, David Charlesworth, Taige Frid, Alan Peters and a host of others. His advice is a culmination of what all of these greats and many others have learned and he passes that information on to you.
I sharpen my scrub plane blade on one of those belt sanders that Lee Valley sells. I too was intimidated at first, but it's been pretty successful, and you're not aiming for that perfect sharpness because you know you have to clean it up anyway.
Thanks to all who provided input. I ended up deciding on the #7 and #62. I also got the veritas jig for sharpening along with some sharpening equipment. All together about a $650 investment. Thanks for the tips about the dvd's I will be ordering that today. I'll need all the help I can get. I think if I can handle the sharpening, I will be able to make this work. Nothing like learning something new.
Bones, you're going to have a great time. You've chosen wisely, in my humble opinion, and should be able to meet most needs with those planes. Down the road you'll probably find yourself pining away for a smoother; you can set them up for outrageously fine cuts and leave a flawless finish, and they're shorter which allows you to get a great finish on a surface that's not dead flat over it's entire length; saves you work and material. You could just use your #62 and adjust the microbevel angle, cause the mouth adjusts so quickly and easily, but it's longer than a smoother, and somehow, lacks the rock-solid authority of, say, a #4 1/2. For now, though, You're set up as well as you could be for just two planes, I think.Good for you with the sharpening gear; you'll also want to spend time learning to adjust the planes to get the results you want. That takes a little poractice, too, but it's fun practice (for me anyway.) I had the advantage of watching the L-N rep set up my planes for different needs and demonstrating how his adjustments changed the results. THAT was invaluable. The videos might be just as useful or better even, although I was able to ask questions, which believe me I did.Enjoy...CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Thanks for the encouragement. All I can do is give it the old school try. And besides, planes are easier to hide that a big table saw.
Once you get 'em, if you have some layout tools and a decent dovetail/tenon saw and a rip saw--or maybe a ryoba--grab an old 2X4 and see what you can make with 100% hand tools, no electricity at all. I find it a really fun challenge.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Here's a pic of a box that I made out of a 2X4 with nothing but hand tools. Ripped it with a ryoba, bookmatched the parts, flattened and thicknessed them with the #62 using a toothed blade, smoothed them with a #4 smoother, and cut some dovetails. Even the sliding top and the inset bottom (you can't see 'em cause the pic is "artsy") were made this way, and the dados were cut with a marking knife and 1/8" chisel. That #62, with a standard blade honed at 27 degrees, leveled those dovetails like magic. (Hope the picture posts...)CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Wow, that's nice. I'll take you up on your challenge a little in the future. I will need to learn to walk before I run. I have already picked out my board to start on. It is a 5' piece of QS white oak that was left over from my router table project. I have a simple goal. Take the f2s 4/4 board and rip it (sorry bandsaw for now). Flatten it and edge the pieces and glue the two sections and flatten the panel once glued. It's not fancy, but ya have to start some where.
Heh heh heh heh,<!----><!---->
Just chuckling about us boys with our nice toys.<!---->
I tried planing Brazilian Satin Wood (Pau Amarillo) which is harder than hell when I started the hand plane game. The poor little plane wood just bog down, as if it was glued to the board. I came to the conclusion that this wood was not for a hand plane and it was impossible.<!---->
After learning all the tricks, each of my planes now works the wood with joy.<!---->
I attach a picture of a shaving made with one of my ebay $15 <!----><!----><!---->stanley<!----><!----> Victor planes.<!---->
<!---->PS. This is the closest I have ever gotten my better other half to woodwork.<!---->
That's thin! My goal is to get the thing to go end-to-end with out a gouge! Now, how long it takes me to get that, we shall see.
hmmmmmmmmm.... I reckon, with the new tools, that'd happen on maybe the 4th or 5th pass....? Not long after ya got the blade set just right at any rate....Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Dude, I gotta whole shop full of power tools, and of these I think my bandsaw is the favorite. I just think it's fun to slow down and use nothing but hand tools now and then, and to find out what can be done with a crappy piece of ordinary wood. In my case hand tools invariably improve the end result, but it's ponderously slow if you're used to, for example, cutting dados on a tablesaw as opposed to a chisel. Your starting project is perfect. Get those plane irons sharp first, and you probably won't believe how small you can set the mouth of your planes. For your final cuts, set the mouth literally as fine as possible without clogging from the shavings.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Well I can't belive it, but I did it. I managed to sharpen something. The wife gave me a woodcraft gift certificate for the birthday, and I went back out last night and picked up a set of chisels. I figure I had better learn to sharpen on something other than the LN. I picked up a 4 piece set of irwin/marples chisels for $40.00. The mill marks were pretty pronounced. I used the granite slab I got at wood craft and sprayed it with 3m tack mount. It held the strips of wet/dry paper very well. I used 220, 320, 400, 600, and 1500 grit paper. Flattened the back and then used the veritas jig to hold the angle. I had to work a while but I managed to get them to a mirror finish and finished with them off with a 2 degree secondary bevel. Man those are the sharpest chisels I have ever seen! I shaved the hair on my arm with no effort. I put a test piece of ash in the vise and it felt like the tool was passing through air instead of wood. Sharpening is not that bad after all. I'm ready for the planes now!
Hello Bones. Glad you are having a good time. It might seem very basic but the idea behind a flat back is so you can bring 2 polished edges together. After you have flattened and polished the back you should hold the blade under a flourescent light and look at the tube in the reflection. When the tube is straight then your back is actually flat. A mirror polish does not mean that the back is flat, but an accurate reflection of a straight line [flourescent light tube] does. Hopefully your chisels are flat, but if they are not then you have something to look forward too. Did you ever get the David Charlesworth DVD? Peter.
Peter, the dvd is on the way. I picked up David Charlesworths furniture making techniques vol II. I am reading it tonight. I can't wait for the DVD. To avoid being long winded in the last post, I did not go into the full blown details when I said I had a mirror shine.
I used a shade lamp to check the progress of the flattening process. I have a magnetic lamp that I keep on the bandsaw that has a 60W bulb. I would hold the blade under the light and view the light from above the shade. With each grit, I would slightly angle (left to right) the blade. I would work the blade back and forth until the previous's grit scratches were eliminated and replaced with the new scratch pattern. I alternated between a 45 and 90 angle left to right. I kept the blade flat against the granite slab. It worked really well. I would periodically hold the blade under the light and the scratch pattern showed up well. When each grit was finished, I would make a few passes at 90 and get the scratch pattern back to perpendicular to the blade and move to the next grit. The hardest part was getting those milling marks off. Once they were gone it went pretty fast. When I hit the 1500 grit, it started to sparkle. I held it under the light and could read the label on the bulb. If there were a few foggy areas, I would go back until it was uniform. When done, I made a few passes for the secondary bevel and it was done. I ran it over the arm, and the hair fell. The scary sharp method does work! I don't think I will worry about sharp chisels anymore. I hope the method works as easily with planes. We shall see.
Bones, not trying to be argumentative, just trying to be helpful. If a blade has a mirror polish then you could read anything in it. But to know that it is flat you need to look at the reflection of a straight object on the back side. This is different from hazy patches, or previous scratches disappearing at a constant rate, or a mirror polish. All that matters is that you get a mirror polish, but to get that with any repeatable certainty, you need a flat back. View a fluorescent bulb in the reflection on the back of your chisel with the tube running the length of the blade. There should be no distortion in the image if the back is actually flat. Imagine bending a mirror and seeing the image distorted. This is one reason why I am weary about flattening on plate glass. Very difficult to say that it is actually flat and not bending on the surface that it is on. But then again sharp is sharp. Peter.
There's another advantage to getting a chisel truly flat; when paring, the back of the chisel is kept flat on the surface. If the edge is not on the same plane (geometrically speaking) as the back of the chisel, you'll have to lift the handle to get the edge to cut (or the other possibility is that the chisel will want to dig into the wood). I'd try Peter's idea with the tube--sounds good, although I just use a precision straightedge and check to see if light shows through between the back of the chisel and the straightedge. It's probably flat though, since you used a clalibrated flattening plate. By the way, you can just use water to hold the paper to the plate, and not gunk up your plate, which I can't help but feel must knock your plate out of flat over time as it builds up...Congrats!CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
"By the way, you can just use water to hold the paper to the plate, and not gunk up your plate, which I can't help but feel must knock your plate out of flat over time as it builds up..."
I used a quick swipe of mineral spirits, and a pass from a razor blade to clean it up. It takes less than 30 seconds to clean up. The plate is back clean and ready to go. Thanks again to everyone for the help.
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