Replies

1. 
   joinerswork | Oct 26, 2011 08:14pm | #1

   mdcon,

   With practice you'll get the knack of how much, and where- on the plane-, to apply pressure at the beginning of the stroke.  Also, you can try skewing (holding the plane at a diagonal angle to the end of the board) the plane, so the whole of the blade isn't  whacking  the end of the board at once.

   Ray

2. 
   roc | Oct 26, 2011 11:54pm | #2

   You sure have done your home work

   Your approach and expectations are foreign to me.  Hmmmm.  Makes sense though from a thinking thing point of view.

   Have you heard the song Love Ain't a Think'in Thing ?  Wood can be like that.

   Wood, obviously, is an organic material; meaning it may not be the same hardness and grain direction along the plank you are working with.

   I am also curious what your back ground is as far as metal working.  Flattening the plane sole.  Measuring in thousandths. All kind of tricky for a new person if they don't already have some practice with the flattening and use of a micrometer or vernier caliper.

   There may be the possibility the sole isn't accurately flat and out of twist etc.

   I have noticed this kind of problem from another perspective.  I have gotten a board pretty close with a medium length plane and then gone to a longer plane to really fine tune the flattening.

   Guess what ?

   It got worse.  Wood and the tools that go with it are kind of tricky.

   It would never have occurred to me to flatten a board and attempt to take consistent THICKNESS shavings off it to see how my technique was.   I am not saying it is a bad idea though.  Mostly practicing my technique was adjusting the blade so the wood came off the area of the edge I needed it to ( not always in the middle ) to get an edge square.

   Yes you need to press on the knob to start, both knob and tote in the middle and then only the tote at the end but this is pretty generally true.  I have done all this just as I always do and then have to take several passes at the beginning  of the cut area more than the rest of the plank to keep the board flat while smoothing it.  That is just the way it is some times.  To a surprising degree some times.

   What I usually do when flattening is to check with winding sticks and straight edge to see where the board is out.  Plane where it is needed and when it is flat it is flat.  If it takes several passes for one bump and one or two passes to remove another bump of the exact same size well that is what it takes.

   Consider that one area of the plank you may be going with the grain and soon after going against the grain.  One area may be more" flat sawn" ish and another more toward "quarter sawn" ish which I think would give a slightly easier/deeper cut, or better stated, flat sawn with the grain can resist being cut to a small degree.

   Not that there shouldn't in the final passes be continuous curls coming off the entire length of the board , even if six or eight feet long, but the thickness can vary some ( I would think ) and one may have to make some short passes here and there to keep the board flat.  Especially if the blade geometry is not right for the wood being cut or if the blade is getting dull.

   ESPECIALLY IF THE BLADE IS GETTING DULL I have noticed.

   Will you tell us more about what wood you are cutting, What plane you are using,  What you are using to measure the curl thickness.  How you know the plane sole is flat.  Are you positive the board as it came of the jointer was in deed flat?  Did you check it with straight edge and winding sticks ?  Are you sure they are accurate ?  Is the other side of the board flat ?  If it isn't then you will find you need to support it with some paper or card stock to keep it from sagging and messing up the surface you are planing.  This may be a little extreme you say but you are expecting extreme accuracy here.

   ?

   PS: and this is a HUGE one for accurate hand planing to the degree of accuracy you are exploring . . . is the surface you are using to back up the board flat and out of twist ?  How do you know ?  Even if you have a brand new bench of the best quality it may need to be flattened.

   You would obviously realize this since you are aware of flattening the plane sole so I shouldn't even ask.  Sorry if I am asking too many questions and not giving you the benefit of the doubt.  I am a methodical person and tend to go step by step like the plodding old bull that I am.  Small bull.

3. 
   gdblake | Oct 28, 2011 03:48pm | #3

   What size and brand of plane are you using

   A few things come to mind.  The first is that in flattening the sole you made it convex from toe to heel which would account for getting a concave surface when you plane.  Second, if you are using a short metal plane such as a #4 you may have a rocking motion to your planing that you aren't aware of.  Third, if you are having to use a lot of downward pressure to take even a thin shaving there is a tendency to plane the surface concave.  Fourth, your bench may be the problem.  If it isn't fairly flat the board you are planing will flex to match the bench and could account for the concave surface.  Lastly, if you are securing the board between bench dogs you may be over tightening, flexing the board up into a convex.  If so, even though you are planing flat, once you take the pressure off of the board you will have the condition you described.

   I don't know where you live, but if you are close to Atlanta, GA I will doing handplane demos this Saturday at Woodcraft on Holcumb Bridge Rd.  If you are close by bring your plane plus a couple of sample boards and I will give you some hands on help to fix the problem.

   gdblake

4. 
   mdcon | Oct 28, 2011 06:00pm | #4

   I'm actually not seeing a concave condition on the board just high on the end were I begin the stroke but I'll check the the bottom of the plane for a convex condition. I haven't posted what brand plane I'm using because I'm sure someone will post "well right there's your problem, your not using a Lie-Nielson!" The plane I'm using is a Stanley Sweatheart #4.

   Wish I could attend your demo. I'd be very interested if I lived close enough. I think it would be helpful watching someone who knows what they're doing. I live in Missouri (how about those Cardinals!?) though and Atlanta is too far drive. 

1. 
   roc | Oct 29, 2011 12:18am | #5

   gdblake's convex comment sure makes a lot of sense

   I can sure picture how that could happen.

   Do you have a thin feeler gage ?  Some thing on the order of .0015 inch or .03 or .04 millimeter ?

   They come in a stack of foil like metal strips.  Inexpensive to buy at an automotive supply.

   http://www.amazon.com/25025-26-Blade-Master-Feeler-Gauge/dp/B000BYGIR4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319860241&sr=8-1

   If you have one then put your plane on the jointer bed and attempt to fit the thinest feeler gauge between the table and the plane.  If you can fit it under at any point even a little then the plane still is out of flat by enough to make a difference.

   Pine is kind of weird to plane too.  The dark rings in the grain are hard and the other is way soft but I heard you when you said you have planed several boards and it always happens the same way on edge or face.

   At the start of the cut do you move slow ish and steady or do you flail into it with vigor?  Slow ish may be best to learn.

   PS: no doubt you are taking into account that the snipe area will be a thinner or no shaving part of the stroke.

   To remove the snipe you have to plane the rest of the board face or edge down to the bottom of the snipe ( rather than planing the snipe area to where it is level with the rest of the board.  Right ?