I just bought my first hand plane, a lie Nielsen 60 1/2 low angle block plane, and I’m quite pleased with it. I’ve always been a machine believer, but I’ve got to say I’m a convert now. This thing is great, I love it. Anyway, I’m considering getting a larger plane as well and would like to get some opinions on what next to get and why. I’m considering a no. 4 bench plane, I read that it is a good all around general purpose plane.
Thanks,
David P.
Replies
dperfe,
Congratulations on your new plane...
A good next plane kinda depends on how and what you plan to plane. In general, the #5 is the most versatile, hence it is referred to as the 'Jack'. It big enough for jointing and small enough for smoothing. However, if you going to continue using the machines mostly and just use planes for finish work then the #4 is a great smoother and can be adjusted for other tasks.
I think an initial set of planes would consist of a block, jack, smoother, jointer and finally a scrubber...those are your basic bench planes....but you can do okay with less..
Hi David,
That little block plane comes in really handy doesn't it? Working on larger stock though requires a larger plane, and as BG said, it all depends on what job you want to do. The #4 is a really versatile plane as is the #5 but a good alternative might be the LN4.5. That can be used as a smoother as well as a jack. I've also heard really good things about the low angle jack (62).
What you might want to consider doing before spending the money on a LN or other high end plane would be to go to a flea market and pick up a couple older Stanleys like a 4 and 5, tune them up and see what you think. That total investment ought to be no more than $60 and would give you a means of comparison not to mention the experience of learning to tune a plane that is out of kilter (all my LNs have come dead on out of the box and I expect yours was too). Don't knock some of those older tools ... once tuned they can perform excellently for you - just do some research first into what you should look for and what you should avoid in an estate plane. If you decide to keep an older plane in service I would suggest upgrading the iron to a LN or Hock. They are much heftier causing less chatter and they'll hold their edge longer but it does up the price of a used plane to almost double.
Actually the plane that I reach for most often is my ECE smoother which is a wooden plane opening up an entirely new line of tools to consider. There have been a lot of threads on the pros and cons of each but in the end it boils down to a personal preference I think. You would be doing yourself a disservice IMO if you didn't try at least one good quality wooden plane and form your own opinion.
Be safe,
Ken
Edit was for typos ...
Edited 10/14/2003 6:12:58 AM ET by SparrowHawk
The L-N low-angle jack plane is a wonderful tool.
If you get that plus a smoother (#4 or #4 1/2) plus a scrub plane you'll have a real good assortment for basic planing.
David
my pick would be a #5 or a L.N. low angle Jack #62, I have both and find the #62 more versatile.
However, I also highly recommend getting a shoulder plane – these are great for adjusting the fit of tennons, etc.
Ian
You will find so many uses for a plane that you’ll wonder how you lived without them.
I would suggest you purchase a fore plane. I would look at the LN with a high angle frog. The fore plane being a little longer will make a more accurate surface and its heft will help in planing tough grain.
I’ve asked the question before, of others like yourself who worked with wood and did so without planes, but no one has ever replied. I be really interested to know how it is possible to get along with only power tools, I know I sure couldn’t. It would be far easier for me to give up electricity, than it would be to give up my hand tools. I know you can’t fully answer such a broad question, but take me through how you make a drawer for example, without using a plane.
Rob Millard
Rob, I'll take on your question.
I think it is a matter of a learning curve and the standards we set for ourselves as far as fit and finish go. I used to use only power tools. I smoothed things with sanders. The end result was good but not great. With the progression of skills and continuing education (be it by reading, taking seminars, talking with other woodworkers, or simply looking at fine pieces of furniture) I learned that the fit and finish I was acheiving was not up to what it could be. I soon learned that power tools are great for hogging away material or dimensioning parts quickly, they are less than satisfactory as finishing tools. There are now very few boards that pass through my shop untouched by hand toos and the end product is better and often times turned out faster.
A good many woodoworkers have been hooked by the "Norm" phenomenon. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. As long as the desire to produce quality furniture has been sparked, people will look to all sorts of media to improve their knowledge and skillset. Tom
Tom
Thanks for the reply.
While you put it better than I would have, that is pretty much what I thought. I also agree that in some cases hand tools are faster than power tools. I used to, although I am ashamed to admit it, use a belt sander. I would stand there in a cloud of dust for hours, and still end up with a substandard finish ( I blame Thomas Moser for this one) . Now I plane for a little while and end up with a near perfect surface, in less time, if not less exertion.
Rob Millard
Rob,
I'm having a tough time letting go of the sandpaper. Could you share your finished surface process?...smooth and scrape?..smooth only? Recently I worked on a piece of South American Cherry...nothing would work except the belt sander...perhaps if I had a high angle it would have worked but my #4 just tore the wood like it was leather...
BG
Some woods can’t readily be planed. I have not worked with the wood you are talking about, but I did once ( and only once) work with purple heart. This wood was a real headache. A higher pitch can make a big difference in how well the surface turns out. You can approximate the higher pitch, by grinding your bevel to about 5degrees less than normal, or in other words a 20-25 degree bevel. Then when honing put a small 5 degree bevel on the back or flat side of the blade. There is no need to be precise about this honing, so I just do it by eye ( no jigs). This back bevel should be very small, in fact it should only be just barely visible. What this back bevel does is in effect raise the bed angle. I think this one step is far more useful than the tightest throat, or adjustments to the chip breaker. If this doesn’t work, and it may not with extremely difficult woods, then I plane across the grain or at a shallow angle to it. Nearly all woods plane well across the grain. It is a little more difficult to maintain a true surface this way, so I keep checking with my straightedges. With the surface flat and true, switch to the old Stanley No. 80 Cabinet scraper. The No. 80 when properly sharpened and adjusted , can do wonders, and at a surprisingly quick pace. I’m not one of those who shun sandpaper altogether. Everything I make is sanded to some degree, but many times my sanding on even complex projects is measured in minutes not hours.
Rob Millard
Edited 10/17/2003 6:26:50 AM ET by RMillard
Rob,
I've never planed purple heart so I can't compare. I have been buying some old planes for about $5-10 and harvesting the handles and blades so I have more variety to stick in the #3, 4 and 5...I'll put a back bevel on one or two of those blades and see what that does. I want to get good enough with the basics so that I can have control over the outcome...to me that means understanding each variable, individualy, and then how they interact....I' think I'm getting there.
I don't trust the winding sticks a whole lot....I know, I'm supposed to. My shop is small and the floor not flat...so when possible I use the TS top ..and then sight down the board....then I use the planer on the opposite side. ..and re-check. I'll sand lightly but only with a piece of hard wood that has 180 or higher wrapped around it..
Appreciate you comments and sharing your knowledge.
I know you can’t fully answer such a broad question, but take me through how you make a drawer for example, without using a plane.
Rob, in a nutshell think lots of sand paper and any and all long, short, sharp, flat or pointy thing that would more or less serve the purpose at the time. That's basically it, I would cut everything as close I could and then break out the sanders, sanding blocks, chisels, xacto knives etc.
Also, thanks all for the input. I have an old Stanley/Bailey I think it's a no. 6, that was given to me awhile ago. The bottom is pitted a bit. Something nasty got on it, but I think I'll play around with that for awhile; learn how to tune it up, see what happens and then invest a few bucks in another good quality plane to complinent my little block plane.
-David
Judging from your reply, I think you are in for a big surprise at how easy woodworking is when you use hand tools.
Today’s mass market planes like those from Stanley and Record, are so variable in their quality that they can discourage the user. The same can be said for older planes, but they are usually better made. I bought my first plane while in the 8th grade ( 1979) a brand new Stanley jointer, and this plane works very well. Shortly after that purchase, my Grandma bought me a Stanley No. 4, that was a total piece of junk, that almost no amount of tuning would have put right. The point is that had I gotten the No.4 first, I may have been turned off of hand planes altogether, so it pays to buy the best. This way you only have to learn how to sharpen and use the plane, and not overcome its problems, if they can be overcome at all.
Rob Millard
David,
You're on the right track in my opinion. I like the buy used then upgrade approach. My favorite smoother (right now) is a Bedrock 603. I've got all the others too, and each one has a purpose.
I got a lot of advice to buy a #5 when I started, but to me, the #5 seems like a compromise plane. Trying to make a everything plane I guess. It works well, but there are better smaller smoothers, and I think the #6's extra length and heft make it a better tool. Of course, this is subjective, you should try a few, and I bet a few will match your style of woodworking.
Oh, you can't have too many planes either!
dperfe
Low- angle block, block, #4, #5 and #7 is the order I proceeded. If given the choice again, the #5 would probably be substituted with a low-angle #5 1/2. (maybe Santa is listening) My next puchase will be a shoulder plane followed by a Veritas low-angle smoother.
Good luck wth the decision...
sarge..jt
Once you get into planes, you will need one where the iron goes through, side to side full width, so that you can plane flush to a vertical surface, such as adjusting a tenon or rabbet. There are several choices. One is the L-N block rabbet, and another is the new Veritas shoulder. I have both, and of the two, use the L-N more, but that is a matter of taste. I think the shoulder plane is so named for its utility in adjusting a tenon's shoulder, but in my view, all you get is chip out on the back edge. For me, at least, a paring chisel is tool of choice here.
Have fun with your new soon-to-be addiction.
Alan
Hello,
I recommend that you try some of the early stanley planes. Most of mine are pre 1933 and don't have the kidney shaped cutout on the lever cap. My favorite is a #8. I sharpened it while I was watching/listening to a movie until it would cut hair off of my arm. The weight of it helps the plane glide smoothly as you cut off a long curl of wood. I would like to have a LN but have to wait until I win the lottery.
Chuck
David,
It's obvious that you've been bitten by the bug, and that's cool. Don't mess it up with your future purchases, though. You made a smart decision with your first plane-keep it that way. If you can find old Stanley's, and they're in good repair, then by all means buy them. Personally, I've had nothing but bad luck when it comes to finding them. They're either really trashed, or the seller wants too much money. And I'd rather be in my shop than running around searching for good old planes. I'm not saying it's a must to stick with LN, but I'd stay away from the new Records, Stanleys, Anants, etc. My first plane was a new Record #5, and by the time I put in a decent replacement blade and tuned it up, the cost/time/effort required to make it serviceable added up to more than a LN would have been. And it still doesn't perform as well. And BTW, I don't consider LN or Clifton to be expensive at all. In fact, I think they're bargains. Ditto for Knight, Shepherd, etc.
David,
Seconding what Rob's got to say, I am trained as a cabinetmaker and the general purpose plane we use and were trained on is a number 6 - for exactly the reasons Rob listed - long enough to joint with, short enough to use for an extended period and generally an all-purpose plane.
Occasionally we'll take to a smoother, but that's very occasionally.
Cheers,
eddie
ha ha youre going to be addicted soon to handplanes.
David,
I think this is one of those impossible to answer questions that pop up with predictable regularity here and elsewhere. Whatever advice you get will be correct--so long as the path you take in your wood working is the same as the path taken by the advisor--or is the path dictated by the advice.
In the olden days, before forked tail tools, the usual order was: first a block plane (so far so good); and second (believe it or not) a jointer, which in the Stanley/Bailey numbering system is a #7 or #8. After the block plane, used for fitting and trimming, a woodworker needed a plane that would joint, flatten and smooth: a #7 or #8 does the first two jobs very well (it's made to do those two jobs) and smoothes pretty well. (A jointer can also be used for dimensioning, so long as there isn't much wood to remove.) But in a modern shop, where a WWer will often use some combination of hand tools and power tools, this plane acquisition sequence is not always the best.
You need to decide what operations for which you think you would like to use hand tools. As others have written: the surface left by a plane is superior to that left by sandpaper; an edge "straightened" on a power jointer can be improved with a jointer plane; rough cut lumber is cheaper than fully dimensioned stock and can be quickly dimensioned with a scrub plane and a jack; and so on... The problem is that there is no one plane that will do all of these things well. There is no universal plane.
The next plane you buy should be the one that is made to do the job you want to do with a plane. Pick a job you want to do with a plane and then buy the plane that will best do that job. To help you decide you can go to your local library and look at Garrett Hack's The Handplane Book; it's a good read; it has wonderful illustrations, photographs and descriptions of various kinds of planes and what they're used for; and takes you through the steps in tuning a plane to get it working properly.
There are plenty of previously owned planes out there, planes of every description, quality and condition. The problem is finding them. I'm not much of a rust hunter myself, but others can advise you. Don't get discouraged. The patron saint of hand tool users, Saint Roy of Underhill, says that a drought of the type of tool you're looking for will eventually end, and then in rapid succession three of them will cross your path. That's been pretty much my experience too.
One last thing: buying and using hand planes is highly addictive; you will not be able to stop with just two, or three, or four... You have been warned!
Alan
(once again going on way too long)
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