Greetings to all:
I have been saving for quite sometime now for hand planes. If cost were no object to you, what would your ideal collection of hand planes consist of? I have received catalogs from L-N and Lee Valley; that is where I am thinking of ordering my planes. I am aware that even these planes MAY not be ready to use right away without some elbow grease.
Thanks for looking
Replies
1. LN 4-1/2 smoother w/ additional blade and york pitch frog
2. LN #5 Jack
3. LV 3/4" shoulder plane
4. LN low-angle smoother
5. LN low-angle Jack
6. LN Low-angle Jointer
7. LN Jointer
Not necessarily in the order listed. First I'd buy #1 & 2 & 7 & 3 in that order, then add the others as able. There shouldn't be anything that you can't handle with this collection of planes.
I have all but 1,2 & 7 and they are on my wish list.
You know, you're starting an unbreakable lifetime habit.
Happy planing!!!!
Dick
1.) LN
#62 Low angle Jack
#7
#4 1/2
2.) Clifton
3.) Veritas (Lee Valley)
Nearbear, they all work out of the box, but for personal preference you may want to change blade bevel angles. The three mentioned under LN should do all you need.
This is hard to justify though, you can get some real good deals on old Stanley Baileys, made up to around the 1940's on ebay. With cleaning and a good service, they do the job almost as well.
Edited 2/23/2005 7:50 pm ET by Jellyrug
In my opinion if you are going to buy more than 1 plane then don't compromise on the use of the plane. The first plane I would buy is the LN 60 1/2 block plane. The second plane that I would buy would be a LN 4 1/2. A smoother is the most useful [dedicated] plane and you may as well buy the biggest and the best. Next I would buy the LN #8, [if money were not a problem] or the LN low angle #7. A regular pitch [45*] is superior in most applications other than end grain planning, that is why I would choose the #8. Next, if I were planing on dimensioning by hand, I would buy a scrub. Finally I would purchase a Lee Valley 3/4" shoulder plane. What do you plan on buying? Peter
I'm not trying to wake you up from your daydream but you may want to consider learning something about planes before you spend your savings. When buying tools, it's a good idea to know what you intend to do with them and how to do it. In order to be able to use a plane, you will need to know how to sharpen and adjust it. You will also need something to firmly hold your wood. Practicing these things is better done on an inexpensive plane. It would be a shame to wreck an L & N or to buy one that had little practical use for you.
Highland hardware is carrying Anant planes. They are a nice plane, equal to old Stanleys and real cheap. You can go out and buy a Mclaren but it won't make you a race driver. A real race driver would probably lap you in a VW bug towing a trailer. Sometimes the hype you see on websites is misleading. It's strange when you buy an old plane, that they weren't flattened and tweaked the way hobbyists like to do today. I guess all the old woodworkers just didn't know anything. Starting with an inexpensive plane like a #4, a honing guide and a good combination stone is the way to start. Once you have mastered that plane you will be better informed on what you really need and why.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer
"You can go out and buy a Mclaren but it won't make you a race driver."
I agree with you that simply having a McLaren won't make you a F-1 driver, but would you rather go through the Carosel at Mid-Ohio in a McLaren or a Mini-Cooper.
Would you rather learn how to USE a plane with a Lie-Nielsen or an Anant. The L-N is near perfect out of the box and the Anant needs tuning to be as good.
I think we can both agree his first purchase might be Hack's "The Handplane Book" book, available from our sponsor._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
At the basic level, a plane is is flat piece of metal or wood with a blade sticking out. The blade is the important part of the equation. Even an L & N will need sharpening especially if you start on rough lumber. An L & N costs $275 for an iron #4, you can buy an Anant for $30. That leaves a bunch of money for stones, books and a few pieces of wood. You can hardly compare the two tools. You can replace the Anant blade but the plane is actually quite good for the money. You don't really need a fine tuned plane to do basic woodworking, that comes later with experience. Spending all your money on the very best plane if you don't have a bench or know a dado from a plough seems like a waste to me.I'd be happy to drive the Carousel in anything just for the experience. Likely, I wouldn't be able to go over 50. The mini's go like they are on rails, I'd probably miss a shift on a McLaren.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I have learned to hand plane on garage sale Stanley's for over 15 years. The learning curve was very steep the first few years then for the last 10 years or so it has been slow and progressive (or smooth and progressive as race car driver Jackie Stewart once said-since we're using race-car analogies). I would not want to be a begginer and jump right into a McClaren (or a Porsche 935 turbo for that matter). The same goes for the eager beginner with a Lie-Nielsen $475 jointer plane. Personally, I bought a really nice E.C.E. Primus smoother early on in my learning process and ended up getting everything from perfect to disastrous results. If I had more knowlege (not book knowledge, but the self-taught kinesthetic kind) I could have utilized this jem properly and to best advantage. I can tell you, hogging junk wood with a sweet little smoother on a ricketty bench won't be featured in FWW anytime soon. Neither will the sight of a (really old and nice) 110 stanley block plane sliding out of my hands and its sole busting into pieces on the concrete floor. What should've been featured was the day that I took a fettled #5 Bailey jack plane (that cost 11$ at a garage sale) and used it accurately dimension and smooth white oak stock for a reproduction storm window that I made from scratch to fit my friend's 1920's bungalow.
So for those starting out, I'd like to volunteer to help you out, please send me your LN #8 jointer, and I'll mail you a handyman jack and block plane!
Hammer/sprocket
My guess is there are probably 20-30 Stanley/records/Baileys/Anants out there for every Lie-Nielsen. I am at a point in my life where I can collect the best of tools. That is a gloat, not a put down of anyone with a Stanley.
Twenty years ago when I did the trim work on the houses I spec built, I had a Stanley 60 1/2 block plane. It barely took a chip, much less a shaving, so I stuck it in the back of of tool box and hardly ever used it.
About three years ago I took it out and started to "tune" it up. After about three hours of flattening, sharpening and honing, I got the block plane to take an ok shaving. I still wasn't happy with it.
Someone on one of these forums was talking about Lie-Nielsen planes and I saw a demo at the Sacramento Woodworkers Show. I was hooked, bought a L-N 60 1/2R, and have been spending my retirement savings on Lie-Nielsen tools ever since.
Lie-Nielsens are at a price point where I find the quality is maximized at the best price. I have seen and played with one Holtey first hand and they are fantastic. I can afford to buy Holtey's but the quality/price curve is way off compared to the Lie-Nielsens. _________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Hey Michael,
It sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind on the Lie-Nielsen planes, it sounds like you have paid your dues and you are ready for the best! I mentioned the E.C.E Primus planes in my posting and based one the one I have I would highly recommend it for its wonderful rigidity, feel and capability of giving a glass smooth surface that requires little sanding. All the Lie Nielsen's are based on the bedrock frog design which is awesome. The wooden E.C.E. bench planes have a super rigid system for bedding the plane blade that is different but also excellent. The feed on the depth control adjuster is sweet- I like it better than the tried and true Stanley design that Lie-Nielsen mimics. Another nice thing about the E.C.E. planes is the price: they're more in line with Lee Valley/Veritas pricing. I paid $75 for my smoother with hornbeam (not Lignum Vitae) sole and fixed throat opening. The Lignum Vitae and adjustable throat and jointer models cost more but I think you would get your money's worth. Also, I saw somewhere on the web that you can upgrade the (already excellent) blade to one made from 100% high speed steel for ~$99 extra...also worth it if you are partial to one plane and use it a lot. Have a great day, as I run my errands I'll imagine what its like to tow a trailer behind a VW bug at Mid-0hio...
Your question is bound to start a fist fight. I own both LN and Veritas planes. I do admire the LN, but I think that Veritas has really come up with a fine plane in the past few years. If I were you, I would buy three planes off the bat:
The Veritas 4-1/2 smoothing plane- well made, reasonably priced ($179), and all round workhorse, excellent plane.
The Lie-Nielsen standard angle block plane ($95) an excellent bargain for a really good block plane. The adjustable moth version is nice, but at $150, probably not worth the added expense for an initial investment.
You need a rabbet/shoulder plane. I would opt for the Stanley #90- especially if you can find an older version, although the newer English made offering isn't bad, and costs less than $90. There are better versions from both LV and LN, but I still use my #90 on many a tenon and rabbet, properly tuned it is a good performer.
Once you've had a chance to play with these, you can decide where else you want to put your money. A lot of it depends on what sorts of projects you want to do.
Glaucon
I'll be kind. Have fun.
Personally,
I think it is more important for somebody new to handplanes to purchase toward the upper end rather than the lower initially. If you get a plane that is going to work well out of the box with a little honing, any problems encountered can easily be chalked up to user error. If, on the other hand, you buy a plane that requires a great deal of fettling and/or of questionable quality, when it does not work as hoped, there are too many variables too eliminate.
I would probably get these in this order but, it depends on what you plan on building and how you work:
1) low angle block (I have the LV which I love but haven't tried the LN);
2) Shoulder plane;
3) 4 1/2 smoother ( I have the LN with both 45 and high angle frog);
4) #7; and
5) low angle jack.
My order is based on mostly machine dimensioning and surfacing, putting the LA block and shoulder at the top of the list for fine tuning.
If you want to dimension and flatten by hand, you might want to start with the last three and think about a scrub plane or a toothed blade for the low angle jack (probably not quite as fast as a dedicated scrub but still effective and also minimizes tear-out).
I would join in the recommendation for the Hack book on handplanes. It's one of my favorite WWing books.
Matt
My first plane was a New Record #5 from Woodcraft. I fettled it as Charlesworth recommends and learned how to use it. Mostly it takes up space under my bench now.
Since then I've purchased several old Stanley Bailey planes off Ebay. I also purchased an old Bedrock #5 and an old Stanley low angle block plane from Ebay. I've had to do minimal work on all of them to get them into great working shape and all of them are better than the Record I started with.
My favorite plane purchase has been a 3/4" HNT Gordon Shoulder plane. It is the finest shoulder plane I have ever used and I think it is much easier to use than either the Stanley or LV. I would HIGHLY recommend it.
Having said all that I just a little of my annual bonus to order a LN 4 1/2. I'm almost ready to start work on the breadboard desk top and thought it would be a good test to see how it works.
I don't think you can go wrong with the LV or LN. I've used my block plane, shoulder plane, #4 and #7 the most. I'm really fond of the #3 size but I just don't use it as much.
Enjoy yourself.
Joe
Edited 2/24/2005 11:37 am ET by Joe
Like most of us who respond to the 'what planes should I get' question, I admittedly own way too many of them. After seeing some used every time I go into the shop and some which never get used, here are my recs.
Block Planes: Buy two - The LN low angle block plane is great for 'difficult work'. It's about $95 and has a great tight mouth for end grain work. For general work, like chamfering edges, you can pick up an old Stanley or Union plane (adjustable mouth) for about $20 at antique shows or eBay. They're as common as dirt. Look for something from around 1920. If you don't want to put in the elbow grease for the general purpose block plane, go with the Veritas.
Bench Planes: I use a #5 with the throat opened up for taking off a lot of material. I use a #4 with the throat set real tight for smooth work. You can spend $250 a piece for these at LN, which is what I'd do if I had infinite $$$, but equally as good is to find old Stanley Bailey planes from 1895-1930 for $35-$50 and throw in a good Hock blade for another $35. With the money you save, you can afford (the wood to build) a good bench.
What not to buy: Don't get a #6, #7, or #8 until you've used the #4 & #5 for a while. Actually, never buy a #6 or #8, you'll never use it (i'll sell you mine, if you want). I wouldn't start with a 4 1/2, either. The blade is 2 3/8" wide, which is difficult to sharpen if you're a beginner.
Good Luck!
>What not to buy: Don't get a #6, #7, or #8 until you've used the #4 & #5 for a while. Actually, never buy a #6 or #8, you'll never use it (i'll sell you mine, if you want).
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. My #6 and #7 get more use than any of my smaller planes except my #3. I'm saving my nickels for a good shoulder plane right now.
Dick Durbin
Re: that shoulder plane, check out the Veritas offerings before you buy. I recently bought one, and can't think of a way to improve it. It's a great tool. Got both Best Buy and Best Overall in the FWW review.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
I agree with Charlie on Lee Valley Viritus planes.
I bought three recently including the low angle Jack, large surface scraper and the large rabbit they just released.
All I can say is the out of box quality is beyond expectation. Like LN owners I could bable on till I drule over the quality.
Don't hesitate tp buy LV and expect it to be ready be the best tuned tool in your shop right out of the box (that is of course you already own a LV already)
Jim
Don't get me wrong, I use my #7 all of the time (sweetheart era stanley with a hock a2 blade, and boy does it cook!). I was just saying that it is difficult to sharpen the 2 3/8" blade when you're starting out.
Ditto on saving up for the shoulder plane. Does anybody have suggestions on what's "better" - the medium or the large Lee Valley? Right now I use an old stanley 191 rabbet plane, and I get ok (not good) results.
I was just saying that it is difficult to sharpen the 2 3/8" blade when you're starting out.
Maybe I'm missing something... but I don't get this. Dare I ask... why..?? I have the same size blade in my #7 and #4 1/2... and other than tougher material, they're no harder to sharpen / hone than the blades in my #4 and #5... I stick em in the guide, set the angel and have at it... simple...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I can share a little about several shoulder planes I've had: The big Preston and it's son the Record 073 which are the parents of the large Lie Nielson. I thought they were big, heavy and ackward. I sold both after I bought a wedged no-name 1" infilled shoulder plane that works great, much lighter and handier.
If I were going to go out and buy a shiny new plane it would be the Veritas.
Nearbeer, Some of the stuff I agree with like learning to sharpen,more guys have been turned off to hand tools out of frustration than any other aspect of woodworking,so get some info and practice it . I have well over a hundred hand planes,mostly because I caught the collector bug a few years ago, but the satisfaction of using a well tuned hand plane is something to experience. I have alot of old Stanley,Unions,Sargents etc. and Lie-Nielsens and they all have one thing in common if they are sharp and tuned even the lowliest of them will plane wood well. If I could give my opinion as to what types to get it would be the following_ 1 low angle and 1 regular set block plane- 1 good NO.4[ Stanley,LN] 1 good N0.4 1/2 [Stanley,LN] I wouldnt get real excited about jointers like 7,s and 8,s because you probably won't use them very much instead I would opt out for a good old N0. 6 or a N0.5 Bailey or Stanley since they can perform almost the same job and still flatten the face as well. If you go Stanley,Bailey,Union etc. go with the older the better 1900 to 1935 or so,they were well made,after WWII the quality just seemed to taper off. If you really want some quality hand planes go with the Stanley BEDROCKS,you'll have to fork out a little more money but they were and still are the best designed and best performing planes ever made{ case in point Lie-Nielsens are based on the Bedrock design}. So have fun and try not to collect to many over time they tend to take up space in your shop. Len
Hand Plane wish list with no budget constraints? Easy. The entire line from Karl Holtey, with backups from Sauer and Steiner to take on site. ;^)
Wake me up when the dream is over.
Cheers
Kyle
Kyle
I have 10 Lie-Nielsen planes and my investment is less than half the cost of ONE of Holtey's A7 Shoulder Planes.
Happy dreams!!_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Michael,
Ten L-N's is a very enviable stable of planes.
Kyle
I own two really good planes. The LN Low Angle Block plane. It's awesome and quite a beauty, solid brass. I also have the low angle jack plane which is great too. I once dropped it and broke the handle. One call to LN and they sent a new handle no questions asked. I also have a lower quality stanley block plane for rougher applications and a stanley smoothing plane. I would recommend starting with the LN's if you can afford to. They exude quality which will only help your enjoyment of woodworking. I believe this is one area where you do get what you pay for.
There are more old drunkards than old doctors. Ben Franklin
To all that have replied so far, many thanks for dispensing your advice and knowledge. You have given me some great ideas!
Here is some more details on what my intentions are: First, I have read and bought the book from Lee Valley on sharpening. Great read and knowledge! Also, there was an aritcle in Woodworker's Journal by Ian Kirby on using diamond paste to get his plane blades mirror smooth; I plan to use this technique at a later date.
I am going to start my collection by buying a jack plane from LN and start to learn with it. Shortly thereafter, I will add a rabbet plane along with a LN block plane. As my experience grows, I will buy planes on eBay as needed and do not mind taking the time to bring them back to life. In my previous life as a serious car enthusiast, I have learned that if you want the right tool for the job, buy it right the first time!
Again, thanks to all for contributing your knowledge
Good for you. Sounds like a solid plan.
Have you bought Garret Hack's book? Other's have suggested it and it is a great resource.
I have been fortunate enough to have been taught by my Dad and God Father about woodworking. Which included heavy usage of handplanes. Also I was lucky enough to be given most of my planes from them. So if I may add. Look for someone who might be willing to teach you.
I noticed everyone mentioning only Western style planes. I would have to add to the list .
Chushiko - Medium plane
Shiage Kanna - smoothing plane
Japanese block plane
I was brought up using Japanese planes as well as Western style ones. I still like the feel of the Japanese planes, but I use both.
Enjoy!Hi, I'm Len and I'm a Toolaholic...
In my previous life as a serious car enthusiast, I have learned that if you want the right tool for the job, buy it right the first time!
There speaks a man of my own heart...
Well, since you said money no object.. I'd have the entire Sauer and Steiner catalogue, along with a few comissions too...
Meanwhile, back in the real world I gotta be realistic... I do my stock prep by hand these days... with that in mind, my current list is as follows...
L-N #7, #6, #5 1/2, #5, 4 1/2, #4 bench planes c/w high angle frogs
L-N #62 low angle jack c/w a range of blades
L-N #40 1/2 scrub plane
L-N #60 1/2 block rebate, #60 1/2 & #9 1/2 block planes
L-N #140 skew block plane (both L & RH)
L-N #112 large scraper plane
L-N #98 & #99 side rebate planes
L-N #9 iron miter plane
L-N #73 large shoulder plane
L-N Boggs spoke shaves
I think that's enough to get on with... the ones in blue are still on the wish list...
re sharpening... you've already bought L. Lee's sharpening book; it's generally thought of as the sharpening bible; read it well before choosing which system most appeals to you...
Other than that... buy wisely and have fun...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
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