Replies

1. 
   BG | Feb 16, 2003 05:01am | #1

   Gary,

   There are many here who can provide advice but it would be helpful if you could provide additional information.  Is this new wood or refinishing?  How rough is the wood now? How large is the table? etc.

1. 
   GSTONE | Feb 16, 2003 05:20pm | #2

   It is new wood (cherry) flat swan grain, resawed then planed in a thickness planer

    glued two boards glued two boards to make a table top 18" x  60".

   I have stanley planes #4, 5, 7,and an ece primus reform plane. 

1. 
   BG | Feb 16, 2003 06:12pm | #3

   Gary,

   Hopefully the more experienced will chime in here.  First step is to put on a level surface and determine if there is any twist, cupping, bow, etc.  (use winding sticks for the twist).  Second, take a piece of chalk and running your hand over the boards feel for any lumps or bumps and circle with the chalk.  This analysis will give you an overall perscription of what needs to be done and will help organize your attack.

   Take care of the twist, cup , etc. first..with maybe the #4 or #5 (not sure what the 'reform' is) and the lumps with the #4.  After the # 5 I like to finish up with a #7...which should be adequate for a 6' board....

2. 
   lwilliams | Feb 16, 2003 07:30pm | #4

   I had an article in the June 2002 issue of WoodWork on hand planing a table top. That one was spalted maple probably offered more difficult wood related issues. Mario Rodriguez has done a couple similar articles in Fine Woodworking.

   If you have specific questions, we ought to kick 'em around here and we'd all learn a few things. 

3. 
   Alan | Feb 18, 2003 12:23am | #5

   Gary,

   BG is right:  the first thing to do is to level the top.  As he said, use winding sticks to find any twist, and a long straight edge to find cupping or bowing.  A jack plane, with a crowned iron set fairly rank, is a good tool to take care of twist, cup and bow.  Make sure you check which way the grain rises and always plane "uphill" into the rising grain and diagonally across the surface.  When you get close you can set the plane to take a finer cut.

   After removing any twist, cup or bow with a medium length plane, use your longest plane, set very fine, to flatten the top (do not confuse "flattening" with "smoothing").  Use the straight edge to find and mark the high spots and then go directly at them with the long plane.  Again, work uphill into the rising grain.  Take just one or two swipes at a high spot and then re-check with the straight edge.  Keep working this way until the top is flat.  Using a long plane and working carefully it doesn't take very long.  When the top is flat you can take one long continuous shaving from end to end everywhere on the surface.

   Once it's flat you can drag out a smoothing plane.  The iron should have a very slight crown, and be set so the corners aren't extended below the sole.  That way you will cut tiny roundish trenches without a hard edge as a square-honed iron or an iron with just the corners rounded would leave.  This gently undulating surface is the much prized hallmark of hand-surfaced wood.  Work uphill into the grain.  You can use the smoother along the grain or diagonally, it really doesn't matter at this stage.

   If you run into problem areas where you get tear out or other problems, try planing from the other direction.  Often the grain will swoop up and down--especially in flat sawn stock--and you'll have to reverse the direction you're planing.  If you still have problems try a well sharpened card scraper.  A scraper can often work where no plane will.

   I love surfacing with planes.  The surface they leave is gorgeous, much prettier than sanding.  When properly done no sanding is necessary;  in fact, sanding will ruin the appearance of a hand planed surface.

   Have fun,

   Alan

1. 
   BG | Feb 18, 2003 01:14am | #6

   Alan,

   "This gently undulating surface is the much prized hallmark of hand-surfaced wood"

   Recently I was over at Children's Hospital in Boston in the old hospital lobby.  They had a table there, about 9' round, with that undulating surface eminating from the center and running to the edges...beautiful.

1. 
   Alan | Feb 18, 2003 04:03am | #7

   BG,

   I agree.  Hand-surfaced wood is a treat to both touch and see.  Nothing, but nothing, beats the glassy smooth surface left by a plane.  The appearance is also much enhanced:  the wood has a depth to it that you just don't get with sand paper; it's as though you can see down into the wood.

   Alan

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 18, 2003 04:23am | #8

   >> ... the wood has a depth to it that you just don't get with sand paper ...

   Depends on the wood, and what grit you stop at. In my experience, wood doesn't even start getting interesting until you get up around 600 grit. I sanded a bunch of different wood samples several years ago up through 12,000 grit, using abrasives from Micro Mesh. The surface was about as close to optical quality as you can get with wood. I could see detailed reflections in the surface, and as you say, it was as if I could see into the wood. The other interesting thing is that all the samples looked as if they had already had finish applied.

   I don't remember all the woods I tried, and I gave most of the samples away. I do remember some white oak end grain and some Macassar ebony. I don't think any plane sharpened by mere mortals can match the surface I got with sandpaper. No plane I've ever sharpened could even come close.

1. 
   DennisS | Feb 18, 2003 08:32am | #9

   Unc'

   Have you ever tried 'long board' sanding to flatten large areas? I had never seen (or heard) of the process before but I watched some really skilled millworkers on a recent job take some waves out of a large stair landing that was glued up out of several fan shaped pieces.

   The took a good flat piece of MDF, jointed another piece perfectly straight to mount on top (in a sort of inverted 'T' shape, the whole affair being about 5' long.

   On the bottom of the flat piece they glued a strip of adhesive backed paper. Some small sacks of something like sand were placed equally along the top of the board for a little (very little) added weight, Then with one person on each end they'd scritch/scritch back and forth until the thing was prefectly flat. To determine high spots, they took a very, very soft flat pencil and made wavy marks all over the surface. Then sanded until all the marks were gone.

   The same technique is used to fair boat hulls it was explained.

   Interesting albeit labor intensive way to flatten out a large area.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

2. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 18, 2003 08:59am | #10

   I've never done it on that scale. I have flattened a number of small pieces by rubbing them on sandpaper mounted on a steel plate or a granite tile or a piece of MDF as for Scary Sharp sharpening. Works real good, if you don't try to start with too fine a grit. :)

   If I had something too big to fit through a big belt or drum sander, I'd probably try the router sled approach first. If that didn't get it flat enough, your idea sounds like a possibility. The tricky part would be getting your 'sanding block' really straight.

3. 
   Alan | Feb 20, 2003 04:22am | #11

   U_D_,

   Interesting.  I've never sanded raw wood up to that extreme grit.  Of course I've wet sanded finishes up to 600 or so and sometimes gone on to pumice and rottenstone.

   I remember reading a thread a few months back (I think it was here) about how high a grit to sand raw wood.  If I remember correctly, among the experts there was general agreement that going beyond 220 grit on hardwoods and 250 or so on softwoods serves no useful purpose.  I've forgotten the reason(s) they gave.  This matches my limited experience, though:  past a certain point there's no appreciable difference.

   Alan

4. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 20, 2003 05:29am | #12

   I keep telling myself that someday I'm going to do up a set of samples of some woods I know will take a high shine, smooth one with a plane and sand others to say, 220, 1000, and 12,000 and then try several different finishes on them. My suspicion is that with some finishes, sanding past 220 will make a visible difference, but I don't want to make any detailed predictions, in case I'm wrong.

5. 
   tailsorpins | Feb 20, 2003 08:01pm | #13

   I would suspect that at around 400 - 600, finishes will cease to reliably bond to the surface, however penetrating finishes would benefit from the additional polish.  For varnishes and lac, I have had good results stopping at 240, but whiskering twice or three times.