I am in the market for a new hand/palm sander. There are a number out there and before I make a decision, I’d like some advice from the experts. Usage is mainly finish sanding.
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Replies
I have a Bosch random orbit which would be really nice, except I have no way of hooking up a shop vac to it (it has a weird rectangle dust outlet). I wish it did, especially for non-woodworking tasks around the house, but I got it free bundled with a jigsaw. I had a Porter Cable RO (333?) that could. Otherwise the Bosch is great, if you're only going to get one I'd get a random orbit. The variable speed feature gets very occasional use and probably wouldn't be worth spending much more.
I LOVE variable speed, I would never own a RO sander without it. Slowing the sander down allows a greater degree of predictability of what you are doing. Of course, I am doing curved shapes (gunstocks) rather than flat surfaces.
The problem with RO sanders is they cut faster at the outer edge than the center and so do not sand as flat as finish sanders. Palm sanders are much slower but do a much better job of keeping a surface flat and don't leave swirl marks. If you do any staining, RO sanders have a nasty habit of leaving swirl marks that just love to show up after you stain.
That said, I have about 3 unused palm sanders and one hard working PC variable speed sander...
"it has a weird rectangle dust outlet" It sounds similar to the outlet on my DeWalt ROS. I took a small Shop Vac hose (what are they, 1+"??) cut off the rigid plastic end, and the corrugated hose fit quite nicely over the outlet. Previous to that, I had bought a piece of clear plastic hose at the hardware store and made that work, sorta, but it was heavy and awkward.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie... its not quite that simple with the Bosch... it needs a 3 piece adaptor to interface it to a shop vac... so far I've managed to track down 2 of em...
Shame really... the friggin cartridge system it uses is fine if you're sanding can be completed inside 30 secs... anything longer is a pain in the proverbial, constantly having to empty the cartridge and clean out the paper filter...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Bummer! It was so easy with the DeWalt, to wit:
View Image View Image
The hose is flexible enough to just change shape with the fitting. Works great.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I have three 1/4 sheet palm sanders, 2 older Makita's w/o DC and 1 PC w/ DC. The PC gets a little use. I also have two 5" R/O sanders. The all plastic Bosch VS w/ a handle and a Makita Palm. I use the Bosch for coarser grits and the Mak for finer finishing. The Mak has a better pad break, hence no swirl marks. The hose connector/base rotates making it easy to have the hose hanging straight down when sanding vertical surfaces. Both were easy to hook up to my Fein with the Fein rubber hose adapters and a few wraps of duct tape to get the round port to the right OD for the adapters. I bought the Bosch adapter and corrugated DC hose. I quit using the hose because it whistles annoyingly.
Also I had to replace the H&L pad on my Bosch RO in what seemed a very short period. The original Mak pad is still going strong. But I have a spare for each just in case.
One of my pet peeves are the crappy vinyl or plastic cords on some power tools. They have too much memory, crack and fall apart way to soon. On this admittedly arcane score Dewalt scores dead last. I've never had to replace a rubber cord on a Makita, Milwaukee or PC tool less than 10-15 years old. Bosch is in the middle, but much closer to the bottom.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Remember that you are not ready for the finish right off the powered sander--except possibly for a few straightline models. Sand to 180 with the RO and then sand with a sanding block with the grain at 180 to eliminate any pesky swirls. This is seriously important if you are going to use a stain.
I agree but seldom stain my work. Usually I use the RO to 180 or 220 for table tops or other show surfaces. If I'm going straight to topcoat, I raise the grain and hand sand with 220. Otherwise I'm slurry sanding with BLO and 220 W/D.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Leather, I have only two palm sanders, permanently attached to the end of my arms. Alas, I've never owned a Random, and the reciprocating one I have is part of a multi-function tool so is a nuisance to get going -and it leaves marks.
What can I say? Long ago I found myself knee deep in used sandpapers-but the situation righted itself when I twigged onto the joys of the "simple" scraper....
I've bought two 5" ROS's in the past year: a PC333, and a Ryobi (variable speed). Both were easy to attach to a shop vac (a key concern).
The PC333 worked fine, but now it won't run. Wires are bad or something (I've checked the brushes). Disappointed it crapped out so soon.
Ryobi is one to avoid -- it doesn't have a pad for H&L paper, just some flimsy conversion disk that peels off after a few hours. I finally glued mine on with polyurethane glue. Also, when sanding vertical surfaces, the handy on/off buttons are too handy -- I keep bumping the off button inadvertantly.
My next ROS will not be the Ryobi, and possibly not another 333, either.
I've got a first generation H & L P-C 333. It has run well for over 10 years. It accelerates when you life it off the surface, and cannot be put down again unless you turn it off and wait some seconds. But it's strong and smooth. I like it. The H&L pad wore out after about 10 years, and was a snap to replace. I've also got a newer DeW ROS, fixed speed, that came free with a chop saw. It's comfortable in hand, fairly stable, but strains a bit under the same load that the P-C handles with ease. Both connect well to my P-C shop vac, and run nearly dustlessly when connected.
Have fun with your purchase. So many tools, so little time....
Ken
You can cure the acceleration if you want, at least if the cause is the same as on mine. There is a O-ring that often breaks. It is made from a clear material so you may not notice when it happens. I suspect that with ring in place the sander sands a bit less aggressivley.
just where is that O ring?Ken
Leather,
The Festool sanders give a swirl-free finish and they are totally dust free. For a dedicated finish sander, look at the ES 125. Festool makes a lot of different sanders, but the ES 125 is a good start!
Over the years, I tried out a lot of finish sanders from DeWalt, Ryobi, Bosch, and Makita. Then I tried Festool, and I'd never go back.
The Festool sanders have close to 100% dust collection. When you're done, you can run a tack cloth over the surface and it doesn't pick anything up. Nothing in the air either. And they have amazing vibration control so your hands don't have that numb sensation after you're done sanding.
The Festool sanders are a little more expensive than comparable brands. Festool makes sanding disks for their sanders, although I have been told by company reps that Klingspore and 3M are about to produce disks for Festool. The Festool sanders are worth it. Also, because of Festool's dust control, the sanding pads last at least ten times longer than other brands -- yes I said 10 times longer. I use Festool sanding pads for project after project, wondering when they'll wear out!
When you figure everything into the equation, there really is not much of a price difference in the long run, and the health benefits put Festool over the top for me.
Here's a quick price comparison of 5" finish sanders I've tested, which fit into the category you're talking about. Even though some of these are called "dustless," the only one that's truly dustless is the Festool:
Festool ES 125 -- $165
Bosch 3725DEVS -- $130
DeWalt D26453K -- $90
Makita BO5012K -- $80
Ryobi RS281VS -- $50
Here's a link to the Festool sander page:
http://www.festoolusa.com/category.aspx?ID=7
Edited 11/4/2005 10:01 am ET by MatthewSchenker
Many thanks for the comprehensnive.
Leather
I agree on the Festool, though I have the ES150/3. Best sander I'ver ever had and very good on dust control even without the festool vacuum. I have produced some excellant finishes with this sander.
Yes, I should have mentioned this in my last post.You don't have to use the Festool dust extractors to take advantage of the Festool sanders. In fact, when I bought my first Festool tools, I was still using a Fein vacuum. There are others that will work that are made by Porter+Cable, Bosch, Craftsman, Ridgid, etc.
Yo, Dude. I went to buy 5 inch sanding disks from Festool today and found that my $32 order was going to cost $10 to ship. Ouch. That's their cheapest method for shipping, even though it's from VA to Philly. I sent a note to the "local" Woodcraft dealer (60 minutes from home) to see if they carry the disks.
Any other suggestions?
I've been happy with the sander until today.
Have you used any of Festool's other sanders?
I'm going to order the new Festool circular saw, and their 1400 router with Vac very soon, so while I was at it, I thought why not get a sander. I looked at the ES125 and was already to add it to the order, but now I'm thinking the ETS 150/3 might be the way to go. I've used their saw's and routers before but none of the sanders.
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