My first post (about beginning woodworking) was met with great support, and insight about the profession.
Now I am looking for suggestions on tool brands and where to purchase these tools. I have been to woodcraft, but all the tools there seem very expensive. I have ordered a catelog from Lee Valley, and their tools seem more reasonable. I have looked on Amazon and the Irwin (Marples?) chisels and they have a box set of 6 for $50.
But like I said I am new the brands so any information would be of help. Currently, I am in the market for saws (dovetail, and regular), chisels, planes (suggestions on which ones would be great too), folding ruler, sliding T-bevel, waterstones, grinding wheel, mallet. That’s all I can think of right now.
I will keep checking ebay, graigslist, and local flea markets in my area, but I still need to know the quality brands
Replies
Advising someone on buying tools is like advising on which golf ball to buy. It depends on your money, game, and ability. I love buying old tools and would never pay the price of a LN tool, but then I'm not trying to make a living with them. I suggest you just do your best for now and later go after the "best" what ever you think that is down the road.
My Grandfather used to say don't buy a better brush than you are a painter, however I'm not sure that's the best advice when it comes to woodworking tools. There is definitely a difference between the quality of these tools and how they perform regardless of who's hands they are in. There are some bargains and the Marples chisels are one of them, as are many of the Lee Valley (Vertis) tools. For the most part, quality hand tools are expensive to very expensive, but they do last a very long time, so choose carefully. If you search a number of woodworking web sites you can find reviews on many different hand tools. Unfortunately there is no one universal brand that you can just go out and purchase the "best" across the board.
In case he's searching, the Lee Valley tools are Veritas (not Vertis)...My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
There are two top main-line brands for planes--Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley (Veritas). If I weren't buying one of them I would seek out older planes--pre-WWII. These may take some tuning--not a bad thing because it really helps you understand what goes on with these tools. But any of the lesser modern brands, Anant or Kunz for example, will require as much or more tuning than the older tools, and are generally not worth buying.
Chisels are a bit more of a challenge. Older chisels including the Buck Brothers "cast steel" models, and chisels from Charles Buck, Swan, Witherby, and Berg and a few others are as good as all but the very best and priciest of the modern chisels. But there are plenty of modern chisels that are quite serviceable.
Saws--Lie-Nielsen, and another whose name escapes me at the moment make the "best-in-class" saws for dovetails and tenons. Older models can be excellent, but you need to learn to sharpen and set them.
For the rest of the stuff on your list, go get the Lee Valley catalog. What I didn't see on your list is a combination square--Starrett is the standard to compare against. You also need a marking guage or two.
Personally, given your interests, I suggest you check into the Japan Woodworker site -- even if you never choose a Japanese tool, they carry a good line of Veritas (Lee Valley), Lie-Nielsen, Clifton (a quality UK brand) for planes. They have an extensive selection of waterstones including a good combo stone for a beginner (part # 01.091.30),
For folding rules and combination squares, I have the Starretts. Yes, they're pricey. They're worth it, imho (also made in US). For sliding bevel gauge, I have a Shinwa similar to part # 15.635.2 .
I'd avoid the cheap chisels you mentioned and go with Ashley Isles (available from toolsforworkingwood.com) or Lie-Nielsen (available there or at Woodcraft or several other places).
Look at the Lee Valley website, too. They sometimes have deals on things that aren't in the catalogue.
http://www.leevalley.com
stay away from Marples unless you are using pine or poplar. the edge does not hold. Here is my list, and it will cost some money
1. chisels: two cherries, or white or blue steel japanese chisels from japan woodworker. Generic japanese chisels are also fine.
2. Planes: always buy the Lee Valley planes. They are cheaper than the Lie Nielsen and just as good. Stay away from Stanley and such. They are not ready to use out of the box.
3.bevel gauge: schwinna. nice all metal and rear lock that is convenient.
4. Dovetail saw: first try a japanese dozuki saw. they are easy to handle or you can try a western type too. Rockler i think has a good one.
5. Stone: Diamond(extrafine/medium). Or Sandpaper on plate glass with PSA
6. Accessories: try Lee valley honing jig,
7. Morsise gauge: Lee valley or japanese pin type.
Hope this helps a bit.
Now that’s pretty dogmatic, I have several disagreements with your selections based on 22 plus years of woodworking:
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Chisels, I like almost any older models, <!----><!----><!---->Stanley<!----><!---->, Buck Bros., and Greenlee. My entire set(s) came from flea markets.
Planes, Lie-Nielsen, the BEST, and next, old <!----><!---->Stanley<!----><!---->’s, easy to tune add a Hock blade for a top performer.
Bevel gage, agreed, I like the Japanese style.
Dovetail saw, stay away from Japanese saws, in fact, give me a good bow saw any day, (thank you Tage Frid!). You can make them yourself and they are easy to sharpen. Also, the Lie-Nielsen saws I have tried are great.
Stones, give me a good hard white Arkansas oil stone any day, I still use my grandfathers. Get a cheap 6” high speed, YES HIGH SPEED, grinder with a 50 grit white wheel and a good dressing stick, makes for a great hollow grind. Diamonds are for your girl’s finger, sandpaper is for smoothing you project!
Learn to hone an angle by eye, jigs are for sissies. Don’t fall for the gizmo and gadget sellers when it comes to sharpening, these are very recent things. Great work was being done for a long, long time without that stuff.
Making a marking gage is a great first tool making project.
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I would also add, go and buy a Starrett combination square, all work starts with square and straight, Starretts the very best!
Great post, Napie. I like your style.
I would add: learn how to use scrapers and get some - they will help a lot. Also, if you ever have a chance to buy a hand-cranked grinder, get it. Third, if you want to focus on one sort of "brand" for a lot of ancillary hand tools (eg plumb bobs, scratch awls, trammel points, coping saws, etc., etc.) the "Sweetheart" era of Stanley is not a bad target. Lots 'o tools made during that era and they held up good!
Thanks much, I just do not care for the "there is only one way to do it", thought process. It is about making shavings, (or dust...). Far to many gizmos on the market that just take you lumber money. I try to look at what was done in the 18th century with what they had, then add just enough power to keep my shoulders from hurting too much.
WW heros: Frid, Maloof, Gilpin, Krenov, Stockdale, Osolnik, they are practical... it's about the work.
Hand cranked grinder? Sounds like Krenov talking! Now of course, we know he never could build anything great, he had no jigs.......
I very much agree on the scrapers, I buy old hand saws at yard sales and cut them into whatever shapes I need. Tage Frid tought me to sharpen and burnish them, no fancy jig here either, like him I use a file, an oil stone and the back of an old chisel. I have a great hook in about 3 min. that's ready to peal of the planer marks.
I do love those old Stanleys. But in my never ending quest to simplify my shop, I'll be listing some nice stuff on Ebay, older Stanleys (#3C, #5 1/4, etc) a Record #4 and #7, there's more....
I do love those old Stanleys. But in my never ending quest to simplify my shop, I'll be listing some nice stuff on Ebay, older Stanleys (#3C, #5 1/4, etc) a Record #4 and #7, there's more....
Last year I decided less was more and started my Quest for Less. Several reasons. One, I really had too much. Two, I needed to raise some cash for saw making, and three, I had reread Richard Foster's book, Freedom of Simplicity (1981, ISBN 0061043850. A wonderful book.
It has been liberating in many ways working with fewer tools, not the least of which is I can find everything <g>...
Take care, Mike
jfer,
If possible, always "try before you buy". If you have any woodworking clubs near you, then join it. See if you can get into the shop of any local woodworkers, professional or hobbyist.
I do not think it is possible to give a useful answer to your questions of what brands to use. What are the best brands of clothes? What are the best brands of cars? What nationality makes the best spouses?
If you are a Rockefeller, what the heck, buy two of everything. If you have a lot of room, buy stuff which is not only good but big. Why not just hire a "personal woodworking coach" as well?
Go slowly in buying things. Never buy anything you don't need for project you are working on.
No matter how rich you are, skill is still more important than tools. Focus on attaining skills.
One main piece of information anyone would need in order to give you any useful info is: What type of woodworking are you interested in doing? Do you want to make stuff like Ikea? Do you want to make Chippendale furniture with hand tools? Do you want to be another Norm Abrams? Will you make one piece a year for one year and quit? Will you go into production?
Think about what you want to do in the next five years. Make a general list of numbers and types of things. Give us an idea of how much you have to spend (comfortably). How big a shop will you have?
Hope these questions help you to sharpen your question. Is there a school nearby which offers woodworking classes? Take one.
Enjoy.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel, thanks again for your insight. Right now, I plan on just making furniture (chairs, tables, desks, stands etc.) I am going mostly the hand tool route and I plan to pretty much have one project going at all times. I would definitly do more than one project per year.
I plan on, like you said, going slowly when it comes to buying tools. I am not rich by any stretch, but I still want quality tools that will last.
You may want to check out a few of the following websites:
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com
http://www.roseantiquetools.com
http://www.sydnassloot.com
http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com
http://www.mjdtools.com
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com
http://www.garrettwade.com
http://www.hocktools.com
http://www.leevalley.com
http://www.lie-nielsen.com
http://www.patwarner.com
http://www.supertool.com
http://www.thebestthings.com
http://www.adriatools.com
http://www.vintagesaws.com
http://www.finetoolj.com
If you fill out your use profile, some of your fellow Knotheads may be able to let you know if there are great places to buy tools in your area, as well as providing information about woodworking clubs, schools, tool swapmeets, etc.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Thanks for the list of sites.
Does anyone know the quality of those Narex chisels?
Since you stated money was an issue, my advice to you is to do a little research on the internet, (one of the other posters offered many excellent sources) and buy some used tools. Old bailey planes, some old chisels, and saws.
It's hard to go out and find a complete set of old good quality chisels, the basic set of blue chip chisels are fine to get you started, I've had mine for years, their fine, I still use them and then cobble together a set of the older (better) ones.
you can find amazing deals at yard sales and flea markets, I bought a jack for $5 dollars, a #7 for $12, and a nice smoother for $25 all bailey's and all except the smoother which was ready to go, took some work but only about a 1/2 hour. Buy a new hock or LN replacement blade.
I got a few distton saws the most expensive was a $40 back saw that I use for dovetails. One guy threw in a d-23 for free when I bought a 6 inch sander from him.
My point is not to gloat about what I consider to be wonder deals that I got but to illustrate that through various sources that I mentioned and including e-bay you can put together a nice collection of high quality tools that will last you a lifetime that won't cost you a lot of money. It will take longer longer than just buying new but I have to say that I love heading out on a sat. morning hunting for tools. It's like a treasure hunt.
Be patient, inform yourself a little bit, have fun, haggle a little, and you will be rewarded.
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