I wonder how many woodworkers have switched to hand tools like me because of the economy. I’m now making downsized everything with what wood I have left. A crusty old french cabinetmaker befriended me and kids me as I slowly developed skills that “I was only one power tool away from greatness”. Thanks to FW, I’ve learned the value of bench hooks , shooting boards and jigs to “get things done” with the tools I’ve got. I’ve found that the only part of woodworking that’s not expensive is reading about it. Thanks FW
Harleydog
Replies
expense
"the only part of woodworking that's not expensive is reading about it"
Thinking about it is completely free. One doesn't even need an Internet connection! But, with Congress looking for "revenue enhancements," thinking might be taxed soon. ;-)
I shipped off a shooting board I made for a friend back east last week. Complete with a 45° block for end miters, and a donkey for edge miters. Except for a router (an original PC Model 100 I gave her) and a Dremel, she's completely hand-tool.
" hand tools... because of the economy"
" hand tools... because of the economy" I was headed in that direction, and then the new LN plane catalog came. So much for saving money. But there is nothing sweeter than the feel and sound of a sharp blade cutting thru wood. Nothing less relaxing than the sound of three blades screaming thru wood and right thru your ear protection as your eye protection fogs up and the see thru bag on the DC starts to top out.
I'm about 50 /50 hand / machine
Hand vs. Power
A simple subject for me, I have no remose using my 10" jointer to flatten a face and edge of a board in five minutes, and no regrets using my thickness planner to dress it down to near final dimension in another few minutes, and then spend all the rest of the afternoon carving or handcutting some special details. After all when it comes right down to it, all we have in this world is our time.
Robert.
I agree.....and a limited amount at that in the whole scheme of things. Being kinda forced into learning how to use hand tools has been less frustrating and more enjoyable than I thought. When work picks up I'll probably start thinking again about some tool with a motor to further things along, but I got the perfect shavings with a hand plane the other day and it was pretty cool.
Thanks for the input
Hand vs. power tools debate
Robert,
I finally learned what the guy meant when he said: "We all start with power tools and finish with hand tools." There isn’t a "hand tools vs. power tool" debate. The debate should be what mix of the two types of tools best accomplishes your idea of a worthwhile effort.
Miles.
“[Deleted]”
Dog,
For decades , I worked in the style of the great NORM. Then as a result of what I saw here on Knots, I began to try handtools. I really enjoyed learning how to use hand tools, and appreciated how much nicer the wood looked after being planed or scraped than sanded. I liked the way, I could approach things slowly with planes rather than with a table saw. I like the precision in joinery that I can achieve with hand tools. I liked learning something new.
And I have a small shop, which limits the number of big tools I can have.
BUT I don't see the world as Hand vs Power. I don't enjoy ripping a long thick board with a 5 1/2 pt Disston. I do my thicknessing on a Band Saw, and I refine with hand tools. If it wasn't for a power jointer, I wouldn't have a flat and long enough surface to properly flatten the soles of old Stanleys. However, I haven't used my jointer for anything other than flattening the soles of planes for a few years.
I use my drill press a lot, but rarely to make holes. It is great for de-rusting old screws and other metal pieces, for polishing,, and even for honing carving tools. I use hand drills for making holes.
I use an 8 in slow speed grinder for putting bevels on my gouges and chisels.
I use electric lights and air conditioning and heating. I use electricity for my Dremel tool which comes in handy for all sorts of things, and for pyrography.
I use my table saw for holding all sorts of pieces of a project which is in process. I do use my thickness planer once in a while. No sense taking a scrub plane to a hundred board feet of rough cut lumber. I am too old for that.
So you can see, I am not against electricity and motors. I see power and hand tools as complimentary.
I enjoy having replaced my router with hollows and rounds. Even thought they cost me $900, they are less expensive than router bits, and they are a hoot to use. Nothing like wood planes for making edges,
except maybe for my few Lie Nielsens.
I don't see hand tools as being less expensive than power tools. Except maybe that I don't need a dust collection system.
The problem I see with hand tools is that many of the folks who use hand tools are a bit "high falutin". Some of them get kinda self-important when talking about which design of an infill smoother that is the BEST. They can get prissy and overly concerned with the details of the differences between a Holtey and a Marcou or a Lie Nielsen and a Lee Valley. But they are easy to ignore when they do that. I find that power tool people, except those who use Festtools, are more "down to Earth" than many hand tool people. I tend to enjoy hanging out with woodworkers who are less concerned with their tools than their output. If you look at a great piece of furniture, you will have a difficult time telling what brand of plane was used, or whether it was hand planed or not. Certainly no one can see if the mortise and tenon joints are "piston fit". Heck, if you draw bore pin them, then it doesn't make much difference.
So, while I enjoy hand tools, I don't eschew power tools. My focus is on the enjoyment of the overall process of working wood, and on the pieces that I turn out --- that is, on how well my clientele likes the stuff. And my clientele is very important to me. They are my wife, my kids and my grandkids and the neighbors.
I enjoyed your post, and I am glad you are happy with hand tools. Hope you enjoyed reading about another way of looking at things.
Have fun. (That is the most important thing.)
Mel
Thanks for the insight fella's
Mel, I have the same clientele ( some might call them guine? pigs). The wife gets most of the "prototypes" along with their slight imperfections (bless her poor eyesight). She's been kind with her comments. By the time I get down to the grand kids projects they start lookin pretty darn good.
.Already got the family's Christmas gifts cut, lying flat and it's finally cooled off in sunny Florida. I'm psyched!
Dog,
I like your approach to life and to woodworking. Congratulations on having Christmas taken care of already. I am not there yet. What part of Florida are you in? I have lived in Orlando and Pensacola, but then again, Pensacola is really in Alabama. If you ever get near Washington, DC, let me know and you and your family are invited over for a cookout.
Mel
I appreciate the invite
I'm just north of Tampa. Little hilly town called San Antonio...yes in Florida. Home of all the camphor wood a man could want! been to DC once...way too much going on there for this fella. We just got our first one way street.
Thanks again for the invite.
Even hand tool purists still rely on power
Unless you are hand logging and dragging the logs out of the woods on your back....
To Dog, Ralph, Mel and everyone else,
As I make the slow transition away from cabinets and architectural woodwork to custom furniture making I am also learning about and using hand tools more and more. I find doing some things by hand easier and quicker than spending time setting up power equipment for just a few quick cuts. That being said, I'm not planning to give up my table or band saws any time soon.
I'm also a carpenter and work at jobsites a lot. One thing I've noticed is that I seem to use hand planes and hand saws much more than almost any other carpenters I encounter. Again, I'm doing this as a matter of convenience not in an attempt to be a purist. It's easier to make a quick cut with dozuki than to trudge all the way outside to the chop saw.
There is no argument that hand tools are much less dusty and noisy that power equipment and I do consider that when deciding what tools to use for a given task.
Sometimes I'll take a piece of scrap wood and put it in the vise and plane it or make some hand dovetails just for the pleasure of doing it. I never go to the table saw and make cuts just for fun.
Bret
refinements
"I never go to the table saw and make cuts just for fun."
You must not have the "right" blade in your table saw, Bret. Or, perhaps not he "right" belt. (wink, wink)
Seriously, I'm with you on the "what's practical" thing. I think about what is required for the task, and try to select the most appropriate tool accordingly (including any safety issues that might be associated with the task). Sometimes "appropriate" is a hand tool, other times a power tool. I've never chucked up a round-over bit in one of my eggbeater drills, but I often cut small chamfers with a block plane.
Now my ear muffs are dust collectors
I have a fulltime job, build cabinets and furniture for family and others, and teach a handtool program
to kids in the area through schools and parks and rec departments.
I've always used power tools for most work when speed was needed. (Time is money) Though in some situations
I would grab a handtool when it was a better solution for the work at hand. I enjoy the handtool work, always have.
With an ecomony like this where my custom orders are down, I've been creating/expanding my kids programs. Working less
with screaming tools, and more with handtools and kids has been great. I'm more in touch with the material, I enjoy
the handtool work, and my kid customers are having fun.
Though my story is different than most, I would have to say that the ecomony did help lead me toward handtools. I
have recieved pay cuts from my fulltime job, my custom orders are down, and I have 2 in collage now. Creating/expanding a new
revenue stream was needed now. And I've always wanted to start a handtool program for kids. This economy might
have been the kick in my backside I needed all along.
GRW
great idea
GRW
Best of luck with teaching the kids
and with your work.
Mel
Thanks Mel
Mel,
Thanks for the good wishes. My family has been fortunate compaired to many. We still have
jobs, health, and food on the table. My heart goes out to those who have really been effected by
current events.
My kids program has been a lot of fun. I taught kids 25 years ago, and have Industrial Ed training.
I've missed working with the kids all these years while I raised my own. I've been reminded that
not all rewards are financial. And that a child can teach an adult a thing or two about life.
GRW
F
G
Speaking of G, thanks for the tip on Gurneys (you tipped me off a few months ago). Great place!
SMH
Any of these folks still alive???
Oh, I've seen much, much older threads get resurrected.
We should have a contest: see who can find the oldest and oddest thread and respond.
When did the forum start?
Please don't. New posts will get jacked to page 2 and never get a reply. One thread (maybe this one) to post links to won't make the forum useless.
Buzzkill
Quite.
9619 (Mel) was still alive & kickin' last year, as we swapped an email or two. One or two others who posted regularly to Knots (the former name of this forum) can also be still found in a shed somewhere.
It was a lively place in those days - and very educative. Buzzkillers were certainly thin on the virtual ground. But something queer happened to the US zeitgeist over the last decade ..............
Happily, there does seem to have been another sea change of late, though but. Perhaps some other old Knotters will return from where they've been hiding in their sheds, as the storm passes and the place lights up once more?
Lataxe
Hand tools, because I want to work with wood.
It has probably been said in other replies but any regular Joe can become a machine operator & fabricator. If a garage full of the Far East's finest machines is what you desire then go for it. Some of those things are amazing but I'll take a good hand tool made by some awesome boutique manufacturer any day of the week. But then again, I don 't use 2x4's & plywood… so there's that.
Didn't bother to read all the replies but the best answer is use what you want or like to use. What I use do doesn't really matter.
For the record I use which ever gives me the best result for the task at hand. That might be my table saw or drill press. Or it might be hand planing or working with a brace and bit. Just depends.
While I like and use both I have found that power tool will help me screw it up a lot faster. So when it comes to fitting or fine work I use hand tools most times.
I read most, skipped one. I agree, best approach is what you know and what you like as long as you get the result you want. If you don't get it you'll be forced to learn, which is why this is a lifelong craft.
I always find these discussions HAND TOOOLS vs power tools interesting. When anyone outside of a woodworker looks at a finished project, do they really care? Does anyone really believe Mr. Chippendale would not trade a bunch of his wood jointer planes for a good 8" spiral head unit? Outside of hand carvings vs a CNC unit which are in different category, a joint is a joint, smooth top is a top. Hand cut dovetails are nice design element some folks might admire but most people never look at the sides of a drawer or know the difference. If some hand tool folks want to revert back to 18th century techniques, enjoy your craft.
I have come to really enjoy hand tool work and the way I can improve my skills at it. The lack of noise and dust adds to this enjoyment. I am not going to ripsaw a four foot board and will have no trouble running a board across my jointer or planer. If it is too big for either I can always grab a hand plane and go old school. I guess that makes me officially hybrid.
Perhaps there are fundamentally different motives behind tool choice, depending on whether the tool user is a hobbyist or a business user. The latter is driven by "time is money" so will tend to look for the tools that are most efficient in respect of performing the making tasks.
That might mean a need for the best hand tool available, to achieve a certain look or configuration of the wooden item being made; but often it's going to be a power tool choice if such a tool is faster (to learn and to use) as well as more accurate without a hundred hours or so of practice first. Some commercial makers do sell, though, on the basis of "entirely hand tool made". .....
As a hobbyist I find myself driven by different motives than "time is money". For me, and perhaps many other hobbyists, "time is pleasure". A tool doesn't have to be time-efficient but rather pleasurable or interesting or educative to use.
I am motivated to make the best quality furniture I can ..... but this is just a sort of test, to measure if my knowledge and skills concerning tool use (and some other aspects, such as designing) can be, or have been, improved.
A fairly large proportion of hobbyist time can be spent investigating tool capabilities and their own abilities in learning to use them. Many of us make a series of one-off pieces that are dictated by our desire to learn a new skill, often with a new (to us) tool.
We're playing at it. Our outputs would need to cost thousands per item if we were looking to be paid for them at a commercial rate. But we aren't .... unless we've been suborned by the "cash is the only real value" dogma of modern life.
For myself, I don't ever want to be fully competent at all woodworking procedures and the associated tool-wielding. (" Just as well!", you cry). I want to always be in a position where I can try something new, including the use of tools I can't currently use well because the tool is as yet unfamiliar.
It's a pleasure to acquire a new tool and to gradually learn how to use it with competence. Sometimes the investigation and learning about a tool inspires one to make a similar tool, rather than a piece of furniture. This too is playing-not-working.
Lataxe
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