My woodworking projects I make are very nice. Of course, I am using all powertools. Would it benefit me and make my project even nicer if I mixed in hand planes to my arsenal? I am not a traditionalist, just a modern day woodworker. Is there a happy medium with hand tools and power tools? In what capacity?
Jeff
Replies
Jeff -
You're gonna get responses from all possible directions about this. There are some who think that using any tool with a cord or battery puts you on that slippery slope to the nether regions. - lol.
IMO, hand tools are definitely valuable in the shop, but they certainly don't make you more (or less) of a woodworker. There are times when finding, setting up, and using a power tool is more hassle than grabbing a hand tool. I keep a small block plane and a set of chisels handy and use them pretty often. My planes and chisels aren't fancy - just some inexpensive Buck Bros stuff that I keep nice and sharp.
The bottom line is that you have to decide this for yourself. It takes time to learn how to use any tool (powered or not) so it's all about what works best for you.
A perfect example for me with power + hand tools is when I make 45 degree cuts. I cut the 45 with my powered miter saw but I clean the cut up with my miter trimmer. I can never cet a super clean cut straight from the saw probably because of a dull blade or blade wobble so I take my work over to my miter trimmer and clean it up to a perfect dead-nuts 45. It's a happy median for me.
Jeff
Good name! I use any tool, whether it be hand or power, to get the job done correctly. There are many tasks that I can perform quickly with power tools. Many others with hand tools. There are many tasks, like final smoothing, that I can only get the results I'm looking for with a hand plane. No power plane can leave such a smooth surface. So, I believe they exist in any shop as a symbiotic relationship.
For instance, I flatten all stock in my shop on the jointer. Mine is wide enough at 12" to accomodate 98% of the stock I work with. I then plane parallel with my power planer. I could perform, and have, both tasks with a hand planes, but for me, it takes alot longer. Other guys who are more efficient than I in the task will beg to differ. Once I've gotten the board flat, parallel, and square, I cut it to dimension, using the table saw. Once I've prepared all my stock with power tools, I perform most of the joinery with hand tools. I cut all my dovetails by hand, and smooth all surfaces with a plane. Well, I think you see the point............
There are quite a few tasks in a woodshop that a power tool would be quite awkward to try and use. For instance, chopping a rabbited corner square, or shaving a cabinet door to fit perfectly in an inset. These are jobs that hand tools excel at, with faster and better results. Nothing is better at fitting a slightly overcut tenon than a shoulder plane. Try to take a 'wisp' or a 'hair' off with a bandsaw with accurate results! I can't.
The addition of hand tools to my woodworking improved my results tremendously, not to mention the nice and peaceful quiet and dustless environment in the shop. You can actually hear yourself think, and don't need a set of headphones.
Jeff
Jeff (also a great name)
So am I to understand that you can get a smoother finish on a board with a smoother plane or scraper plan that you can by sanding? Also, with figured wood, is the figure more prodominant if you use planes?
Jeff
Jeff
Without getting to technical, the answer is YES! Sanding wood abrades the wood fibers, leaving them split, thus the dull look to the wood. When a wood is planed with a sharp blade, the fibers are sheered, and are left polished. The results are quite distinguishable. When I sell to a new customer, I always bring two pieces of wood. One is sanded to 220 grit, and the other is hand planed. It shows them what their extra money is getting.
Jeff
Jeff,
Does that mean that if one is buiding furniture with solid panels of figured wood...ie: burl, quilted, curly, that a LN Scraper plane would be a good investment to really make the wood "POP"?
Jeff
I have a 112, and I have to admit that I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes I get great results with it, and sometimes not. I'm sure it's me, and not the tool.
For real tough, grainy, burly woods, I use my low angle jack plane with a modified blade. I have an extra blade that I have reground a secondary bevel at an effective planing angle of 60°, and I adjust the mouth to be extremely tight. This combination works extremely well for me. I'm actually considering selling my LN 112, because I hardly ever use it. I have an old Stanley #80 cabinet scraper that I love, and I also have many different sized and shaped card scrapers that I use all the time as well.
One of the neat things about bevel up planes like the LA Jack is that you can easily alter the effective planing angle to suit the task at hand. Jeff Miller showed me that trick about 6 years ago in his chair making class, so I thought I'd footnote the credit.
Jeff
Jeff,
It would be useful if there could be advice, in the form of a FWW compilation or FAQ, indicating when planing, scraping, sanding or any other preparation technique is likely to be most appropriate. Your example of dealing with a veneered surface is a good example.
Wherever you go in woodworking circles, there's a tendency for the idealogists to drown out the good advice with loud insistence that only this or that tool/method is the best, in all circumstances. As you indicate in your post, the best method is largely determined by the nature of the work that has to be accomplished, the context (such as hobby or commercial) and the attributes of the material concerned.
When the subject-matter is the making of joints, the same considerations need to be applied - what works best for the nature of the job? As you mention, handcutting DTs (and M&Ts for that matter) takes ages. I could cut virtually identical joints to my handcut ones on a Woodrat, in a tenth of the time; and with greater accuracy. But even the Woodrat would struggle to make those ultra thin DTs where the narrow end of the pin is but a sawkerf in width. And a woodrat uses a noisy router....
I suppose it must be satisfying, in some way, to be able to accomplish anything and everything with handtools. They do require a longer learning curve to master, so this must give one a sense of accomplishment. But it also takes effort and intelligence to learn to use a Woodrat well or, for that matter, an RO sander. Some people seem to think that sanders come with a clever brain that automatically moves the thing about and all you have to do is press the trigger......
Anyway, it's a great thing to be able to accomplish the same task using different methods. Having to learn multiple skills keeps the old brain from ossifying and also allows the purchase of many more tools. Many, many tools. Many, many, many tools.
Lataxe, using play to keep the prions at bay.
PS Your comments about the bevel-up planes is insightful. I have been wondering for a while - are the bevel-down-plus-cap-iron planes redundant now? What do they offer that a BU plane cannot offer? We know a BU plane can offer much that a BD plane cannot - importantly, the ability to change blade and therefore cutting angle in 30 seconds or less. Also, they are less complicated and have easily adjustable mouths.
Lataxe
First of all, my compliments to you. I strongly desire to be able to express myself in writing as well as you do. Your words flow, and it seems as though you are standing right next to me, and we are discussing it over an ale. I wish my in-person verbal skills would carry over to this type of discussion. I wouldn't get in so much trouble around here, then :-).
And now, back to the conversation:
Without a doubt, having a compilation of FAQ's regarding tools, materials, and different procedures as a reference would indeed be outstanding. But, isn't that what we're really creating here at the Knot's, anyway?
I'm a 98% self taught woodworker. I say that because I had wood shop in the 8th grade, and was hooked for life. My grandfather was a professional jointer (cabinetmaker) and made his living, meager as it was, with wood. Unfortunately, he died when I was 2 years old. My father is completely allergic to tools, in general. So, I basically taught myself through trial and error over the years, and found that I was always a good student, and read alot of magazines and books to get my answers. The only woodworking class I've taken since starting this as a business was about 6 years ago; chairmaking.
I pretty much had to learn what worked for me, and try and apply it to future situations. I wish I would have had this site as a learning reference 15 years ago. After 15 years of power tool woodworking, I took that chairmaking class, and the instructor, Jeff Miller, stressed hand tools. Best week of my woodworking life. He opened my eyes to an entirely new way of thinking about woodworking. It was up to me at that point to discover what worked best in given situations.
After a while, you will start to just know when to reach for a scraper, when to reach for a plane, and when to reach for sandpaper. I have developed quite the arsenal of hand tools now, and have a solution to every problem without plugging in. The only time I power sand is, like I stated earlier, on commercially prepared veneered panels. They are just to thin to risk a scraper, in my experiences. I have wrecked more than one cabinet by trying to scrape, only to blow right through those thin veneers.
Now, if I've made my own veneer, I know it's about 3/32's thick, and I have enough meat to scrape...............I think you get the picture.
Well, I'm rambling. I could chat about this all night long, but it's time to get ready to go to my poker game.
(to coin a phrase from Lataxe)>
Jeff having a heckuva good time discussing tools
Jeff,
I'm sure you're aware of the article "Sand, scrape or plane" in Issue 180 of FWW. The author (Ari Tuckman) did a lot of comparative experimentation and concluded:
"...there is very little difference between the three methods after finish has been applied. This was a real surprise, given the clear differences beteen the unfinished boards".
Although I have only been planing and scraping myself for a few months, I have been sanding (with a Festool RO, a Bosch belt sander and by hand) for some ten years. SoI have reasonable experience of both methods now.
So far, I have to agree with Mr Tuckman - a planed or scraped board looks much cleaner than a sanded one, even when the sanding is to P320. But as soon as you apply the finish (usually oil & wax or shellac & wax for me) the differences between the look of the variously prepared surfaces disappear - they all look equally good.
The really significant differences for me, between RO sanding and planing/scraping are these:
* Planing is a lot faster at removing the bumps and blemishes; and makes it easier to get a flat surface overall; and its quiet.
* RO or belt sanding does not require the additional work/skill of keeping blades honed, curved or burred in order to avoid tear out, track marks and other unwanted side-effects of planing or scraping.
* It was much quicker learning to sand with machines than it is learning how to plane/scrape well (and I do sand well, avoiding dips, swirls, rounded-over edges, et al).
There are other less significant differences: machine sanding is tedious whilst planing is involving, as well as giving something of a physical workout. Planes are more fascinating toy-objects than is even a Festool RO sander. Sanders consume discs and belts at a far greater rate than a plane or scraper consumes its blade.
At present I am enjoying planing and scraping, as they are still novel; but I won't pretend that the RO sander has become redundant. In fact, I seem already to be doing 95% with plane/scraper then 5% sanding to remove any remnant of micro tearout or tracks - the best of both worlds perhaps?
Lataxe
Lataxe
I agree with that article, as well, if the sanding job was done correctly. However, and I'm also sure that you'll agree, that many times after having sanded a large surface like a table top, when the finish is applied, a dip or a low spot is quite evident. Sometimes, these bad areas are extremely difficult to see on a tabletop without applying mineral spirits, or the like. With a handplane, I don't have to skip grits from 120 to 180 to 220 to 340, etc..... and if there is a low spot, it's quite evident when the plane skips over the top. Now I know that you know all this, but I'm just throwing it out there for the benefit of the discussion.
I also have a festool Rotex 150, and love it. I wouldn't use it without the vac, either. With their 240 paper, it makes quick work of sanding large entertainment centers, etc.... that I make out of veneered panels. Can't exactly take a #4 to one of those. So, there is definately a use for power tools as well as hand tools. In the last 5 or 6 years, since I fell down that slope, I find myself reaching for a hand tool over a power tool whenever possible. I also have grown proficient enough using them that I can usually get the job done much quicker that setting up all those jigs.
That being said, I had a large cabinet job that I delivered back in October. It had 17 drawers. Don't think for an instant that I cut all those dovetails by hand. It took me about 1 1/2 hours to set up the Omnijig with the routers and bits. I was smart, and bought 3 routers and kept each one dedicated to a task once I set the router bit depth up. Once I got the setup done, I was able to knock out all those drawer parts in a morning, with plenty of time left over before lunch for gloating. No way in the world I can cut 68 dovetailed joints in 3 or 4 days by hand, let alone a morning.
BTW, when I show that smoothed vs. sanded piece of cherry, there's no finish on it. I know it's a bit of smoke and mirrors, but it certainly makes an impression. Don't tell anyone, OK.
Jeff
Yes, there are many times when doing hand-work is more enjoyable, cheaper, cleaner, or faster (done before you can set up machinery, make jigs, run out for something, etc.)
Chris Schwarz teaches a class in this at Marc Adam's School of Woodworking. I think the title is something like "hybrid woodworking."
And now, another comment from the peanut gallery.
Use hand tools when you want to but only if it won't needlessly slow you down. If you plan to use only hand tools on a project, that's one thing but when you need to rip 500 linear feet of something, it doesn't make any sense to use a handsaw. Any time a lot of material needs to be processed, a machine makes sense as long as it doesn't require a lot of cleanup of the cuts. If one piece (or a few) needs its edge jointed or planer marks removed, it can definitely be done quickly with a decent hand plane. In some cases, a hand plane can do a better job than a planer or jointer, depending on the grain. On some narrow pieces, sanding will ease the edges but a plane won't.
Machine made pieces are very common, hand made is less so. Making a piece by hand and having it look like it was done by machine is a pretty good trick, too. The evidence of hand work adds something, IMO.
i'm A professional cabinet maker and have to reach a compromise between power and hand tools everyday
to me preping stock for faceframes and door panels is laborious and a waste of time to do by hand
however cutting a final piece of crown molding or a finely hinged door is another world
using planers and table saws allows me as a professional to spend the time on fine detail work
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