Hello All,
I am a theater carpenter by trade but I want to expand more fully into cabinetry on the side. I know that I want to get a good hand plane jointer. I am intending to use my tax return to fund the aquisition, along with a new Starret and some waterstones. I am trying to decide how much to spend for a number 7, and how much the trade off for quality is worth. I know I can get a Stanley 7 for about $120. And while I can’t afford an L-N, Lee-Valley has a 6 for about $220. I’m in my mid twenties and figure that I’ll have it forever, but I don’t want to buy one and then want to spend more money four or five years down the line to upgrade. I know the hand plane subject has been discussed before, but thank you before hand for any comments.
Datachanel
Replies
I own a L-N low angle jack that i use for most of my jointing needs, and it is well worth the money. Havent purchased any Lee Valley yet, understand that they are also worth the money. I have not been dissapointed with any other of their products. But, I also just bought a No 8 stanley off Ebay for $ 30 and all it required was minimal lapping of the iron. Keep your options open and check Ebay if you are not in the need of the plane immediately.
datachanel,
I use a Record #7 that I picked up at a widow's sale, and I'm not even considering replacing it. Lots of folks bash and trash the quality of Record and Stanley planes (I cannot speak about a Stanley #7). Perhaps I'm just lucky, but my Record performs just fine.
I spent a few hours getting it in shape: flattening the sole, fitting the frog, setting the mouth, and so on. With the stock iron it worked very well. Then I got it a Clifton iron and two-piece back iron. The difference was--and still is--astounding; it works much better than with the stock irons.
As others have said, if you think of a Record (or I suppose a Stanley) as a kit, rather than a tool ready to use, you can wind up with a serviceable tool. Besides, lots of folks have written about various planes that worked perfectly well right out of the box, but I've never seen one--and I own two Lie-Nielsen planes. A top-quality plane may need less fettling to get it into shape, but IME a "ready to go" plane is something of a myth.
Alan
Lyn Mangiameli has a review of the LV #6 at http://host65.ipowerweb.com/~traditi2/forum/Lyn/lv6.htm. Never touched one myself, but I have never heard a negative word from owners. A new Record or Stanley #7 is a step or three down from that for a little more than half the money, but as Alan said, as long as you look at it like a kit and are willing to put some work into fettling, they will work fine. However, for about the same money, you can pick up a very good condition older Stanley from eb*y, put a heavier aftermarket iron/cap iron in it, and have a much better tool than the mid-priced new options without the plastic tote and knob and with better overall machining and materials.
/jvs
data,
It kinda sounds to me you have already made up your mind....you want the LN...and your hoping we'll tell you the Lee-Valley is just as good at half the price. I have to ask...would you really believe us if we did say that?....lol.
Personally, I'd buy expensive planes for finishing...flattening is not as important.
My tax return is not big enough to afford the L-N, but they certainly have been praised a fair amount on the forum. I think I'm leaning more towards the number 6 from L-V, but I'm concerned that if it's the only big iron I've got that it may be a little small. but thanks for your opinion, if you want to bank roll me getting an L-N, let me know, I'll be happy to do so
I'm one of the many that doesn't own a L-N or other high end plane. But, I recently bought an old Millers Falls #18 (MF numbered their planes by length), which I think is comperable to a Stanely #6. Paid about $35 for it, including shipping. I have some old bailey planes in smaller sizes and the MF seems to be comperable and MF planes can be had for cheap. Others have commented on after market blades and I'll second the amazing results of a Clifton blade and their two piece cap. Even a poor quality plane will perform well with that iron. The only problem I've had with the aftermarket irons is they sometimes don't work well in new planes. Before I knew what I was doing, I bought a new #4 record and a new #5 stanley (plastic handles and all) and the 'Y' adjusters in the new planes are not long enough to properly engage the slot in the cap when a thicker aftermarket blade is installed.
Thank you all for your input, I appreciate it
For the type of plane you want (#7), you're much better off going onto Ebay, getting a good older one, tune it, and replacing the iron and cap with a Clifton. Save the LN's for the finishing planes (#4), and the block planes.. The key to a good plane is the tuning and keeping it that way, even more than the quality of the tool itself. What good is any tool if the blades are dull and it's not trued? A good book to have to learn about planes and their care is The Handplane Book by Garrett Hack. Good luck.
Datachanel
I won't argue the fact you can pick up a Bedrock if you have the patience to wait and bid. I will contend from personal experience that you can even take a cheaper plane and upgrade the iron, spend several hours squaring it up and you can get decent results. I have a cheap #4 that I fettled, up-graded and I wouldn't take less than $250 for at this point. Smooth as silk.
But I also have a LV Veritas #4 1/2, a LV Veritas scraper plane and a LV Veritas medium shoulder plane (absolutely superb shoulder plane) and the quality and results are excellent on all. I compared the LN at Highland Hardware before I bought and the LN's are excellent. But I did not find them $100 + more excellent than the LV Veritas's I purchased. Bottom line is the Veritas line are excellent planes at a resonable price and worth a look. You need to read the review jdg posted on the web-site in above post.
Would I consider a #6 LV Veritas fore-plane after having purchased and used the other Veritas's I have. I have already considered an will purchase one at the end of next month if you don't get the last one before I get there! ha.. ha...
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I made the mistake of buying a new Stanley #7 about this time last year; learned how to tune and sharpen it properly and struggled with its indifferent performance until just before Christmas when I learned I could flex the sole far enough to cause it to dip into a hollow on a board. Caused some pretty grusome tear out. Up till then I'd been considering upgrading the cap iron and blade to overcome the constant battle with tear out and chatter in the hope that maybe some decent steel would be able to cope with some of the wild grain I prefer to work with.
I didn't bother with the upgrade. The same day I flexed the sole, I ordered the L-N #7. Arrived the next day. Straight outa the box this plane blew away the Stanley for performance; all I'd done was set the blade depth. Grain that the Stanley would bounce off, the L-N ploughs through. I won't say it works effortlessly; my build makes a wide reciever look built like a tank. I need to take frequent breaks when jointing for any kinda time. That said, I've no regrets with buying the tool; I get the performance and build quality I expect at a price I'm prepared to pay for a quality tool. Tear out and blade chatter are things fast fading from my memory, allowing me to focus purely on the job, not worrying about the tools.
For me, one of the primary attractions about the L-N was that IF I need to, I can switch the frog to the York pitch that's currently in my L-N 4 1/2; to date I haven't needed to.
In your position, I'd seriously consider the L-V #6 or the Clifton #7; I've heard nothing but praise from owners of both. I presonally can't vouch for either of them, purely because I've yet to use them.
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I would start hitting up your local flea markets for a number 7. Now is the time of year when lots of people start to clean out their garages and flea markets swing into high gear. I wouldn't pay $130 for a number 7 unless it was in almost mint condition. You should be able to find one for under $50 if you look at enough places.
If you can afford it, you can't go wrong with the Lie Nielsen.
You might consider getting a Clifton plane. Very nice planes, got some of them in my shop, and still cheaper than a LN
Check this link for details: http://www.fine-tools.com/G303774.htm
Available around the USA:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=toolshop&Category_Code=TPCB
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/clifton.htm
Ole.... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....
Lots of good comments on your question. Only one I have is DON'T SPEND YOUR MONEY ON A NEW STANLEY! If you're gonna' go the Stanley route, go used. At any one time there must be at least two dozen #7 and #8 Jointers on E-Bay. The real sweet ones go pretty high ($100 +) but the users can be had for less. Look for one with a short blade. This will decrease the "collector" value and you will probably want to put some sort of "super-duper, after-market" blade on it anyway. If it's collectible, you can stow the original iron away and use the after market one.
Check out "Patrick's Blood and Gore" for lots of great plane info (everything you always wanted to know; and then some!)
http://www.supertool.com/stanleybg/stan0.htm
Enjoy looking!
Mack
"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
I'm continuing to get great info from all you guys, just wanted to say thanks again.
Datachanel
Doing things the hard way
I would get something like the Lee Valley/Veritas for your first hand plane if you are not already familiar with hand planes.
getting a used stanley as your very first isn't a good way to go unless you've got someone else around who knows their way around a hand plane.
the used Stanley's and others almost always require a bit of work to set up before use. New hand planes such as Veritas of Lie Nielson or Clifton only require a bit of final honing of the blade and adjustment of blade depth/parallelism.
Once you know your way around a hand plane and know what to expect, then go get some used Stanley's.....it isn't as if one hand plane is enough....or even 10 hand planes....
DC
I was just cruising E-Bay, saw a plane and thought of you! #7 Union jointer. It looks to be in pretty good shape, nice wood, long iron and the price right now is > $21.00!! The Union planes IMHO can sometimes be better than the Stanleys of the same type and vintage. I have an old Union #7C and it has an iron that is slightly thicker than the Stanley. I would not consider selling it or replacing it unless I won the lotto! E-bay #3277400062 in case you want to look at it.
Regards,
Mack
"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
I have not used E-Bay before, but at that price I think I will give it a try. Thanks for the heads up.
Datachanel
Doing things the hard way
DC
Look for tool sellers with lots of sales and excellent feedback record. Don't forget you will have to pay shipping. Try the key word "Stanley", you'll get a couple thousand tools to look at. The variety is amazing! In an hour you can see tools it might take you a life time to find. The rare and collectible does not come cheap but they're fun to see anyway. Enjoy!
Mack "WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
I have a wood bodied jointer and love it. It's an ECE Primus for around $180 to $200 depending on where you find it. Excellent plane and it worked great right out of the box.
Just remember, with the first plane starts a life-long addiction, I have 14 and counting.
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