Replies

1. 
   milanuk | Dec 20, 2004 09:37am | #1

   Basically, new Stanley/Record planes can be made to work... but the key word there is 'made', as a fair amount of work will probably be involved (I've got a couple). Anant, Indian-made and sold thru Highland Hardware is a little cheaper and I think a little better if you have to work them over. A lot of people swear by getting them used off of eBay or from auctions, flea markets, old tool dealers, etc. Usually they need some work (just about as much, in my experience) as the new Stanley's. Maybe I've just got some rough ones, dunno. Prices can be significantly cheaper, or more expensive depending on the model and condition. Bedrocks are very very nice, but I think if I was going to spend that kind of money, I'd get a new Lie-Nielsen (modern plane made in the Bedrock form w/ CNC machining and hand fitting). In between is Lee Valley/Veritas, and Clifton. Veritas has some very nice stuff, a little different, but very nice for a reasonable price.

   Might try asking over on one of the dedicated woodworking forums like Knots or woodnet.net in the Hand Tools sections.

   Monte

1. 
   n1k86 | Dec 20, 2004 09:57pm | #2

   thanks

2. 
   JeffHeath | Dec 24, 2004 06:40pm | #3

   n1k86

   I'm a handplane junky.  I have a full set of old bedrocks that I've restored, except for the 601 and 602, which are too small to use, and bring rediculous amounts of cash to purchase.  They're much better than the new stuff from Stanley/Record, etc...  However, if you want to go that route, I'd suggest getting Garret Hack's "The Handplane Book" first, and reading it thoroughly.  It will show you how to restore and tune an old plane.  Be prepared for lots of work.  I spent an average of 6 hours lapping, filing, cleaning, and tuning each plane.  If you've got more time than money, they are great. 

   Now, I'll also tell you that the only two bedrocks that I actually use in my shop now are the 603 and 604, the smoothers.  My 604 1/2 has about 3/4 inch of original blade left, so I shelved it in the display case for the rest of my bedrocks.  The planes that I use every day are the Lie Nielsen's.   They are fantastic, and out of the box, all you need to do is about 30 minutes or less of polishing the back of the blade, and polishing the bevel.  Everyone that I've purchased was dead flat out of the box, no lapping.  Well worth the extra $$$ once you figure in your time.

   Merry Christmas!

   JC

1. 
   n1k86 | Dec 24, 2004 08:44pm | #4

   I already have the handplane book, definitely one of my favorites.  I have more time than money, and i would like to get some bedrock planes, although standard baileys arent out of the question.  Where is a good place to find one, ebay?  Ive looked at antique tool dealers online and they seem thouroughly overpriced for the most part.  Any information on where to get one would be quite helpful.  thanks  

1. 
   JeffHeath | Dec 24, 2004 10:21pm | #5

   Right now, they are a lot cheaper than they were 2 or 3 years ago on ebay.  Most of the people selling them don't know how to tune them, use them, or rate them, for that matter.  What a tool dealer calls "patina", a woodworker calls rusty junk.  Ebay is probably your best source, unless you want to go out and scour the flea markets.  Make sure that they are not cracked, and the tote and knob aren't cracked or missing a piece.  You can replace the blades with A2 Cryo blades from Hock or L-N, or just use what comes with them.  I have most of mine cleaned up and tuned perfectly.  My 606 is the only one that still needs some work.  That being said, neither my 604 nor my 604 1/2 plane quite as well as my L-N #4 or 4 1/2.  But, at 1/3 the price, it's a good place to start. 

   I'd recommend a 604 or 605 to start.  They are cheaper, because they are more plentiful, and you'll use them more than the others, depending on the type of work you do.  I keep 5 smoothers sharp on my bench, so I don't have to stop in the middle of a table top to sharpen.  I am a little excessive, though.  Good luck.

   JC

1. 
   n1k86 | Dec 25, 2004 07:26am | #6

   thanks, i'll have to check ebay out then

2. 
   Napie | Jan 06, 2005 10:29pm | #13

   There was no 601.

3. 
   jquinn | Dec 26, 2004 04:24am | #7

   go with ebay.  you can find some good bedrocks occasionally there, and while much more expensive than the normal stanley counterparts, at least half to 3-4X less than a Lie-Nielsen model. 

   as above, whether you buy old regular stanleys or bedrocks, but a new hock or L-N (for stanley , nor their own planes) low carbon blade.

   you can have an old well made stanley for the price of a new record.

    

   
   

   ---

   Edited 12/25/2004 8:28 pm ET by jquinn

4. 
   hamelech | Dec 28, 2004 08:38am | #8

   Hi, n1k86,

   I'm an occasional Knothead, poking around in this 'a here tool talk forum. Regarding planes, I can only say that saving your money and buying a quality tool is well worth it.

   Though I own Lie-Nielsen planes, I'm not selling them specifically as the ONLY tool to every buy. Comparing a Lie-Neilsen to a low cost Stanley is no contest in terms of quality - the LN will always win. However, buying a Stanley or a Record is not shameful, just know that you have some extra work in front of you in terms of preparing the plane for work.

   A quality plane will have a thick iron, and (for a bench plane), an equally thick chip breaker. The iron ideally has no grinding marks or ridges, and if the back of the iron is held against a straight edge, is not convex (has no beer belly). A quality plane would not need to be lapped flat when taken new from out of the box- if it did, you'd send it back for a replacment! Finally, all adjusting wheels and screws feel solid and precise.

   If you purchased a Stanely (or like-kind), you'd be spending quite some time with lapping the tool marks from the iron's back. After checking the plane's sole with a straight edge, you may have to flatten it. There would also be some time spent scraping paint off of the bed and other areas on the frog to ensure that the blade was well seated. Adjusting knobs will have more backlash.

   Lee Valley makes an attractive alternative to Lie-Nielsen's in that they don't cost as much. Lee Valley bodies are made from ductile iron, and sport A2 irons, just like Lie Nielsen's. I would agree that Lee Valley's tools are manufactured with quality and precision. I don't own any Lee Valley planes, but they rate favorably by their owners in the Knots forum.

   Sorry for the long answer, but consider the benefits of a well-heeled tool compared to a "bargain", even one equipped with a Hock blade. In the end, it's your decision.

   Cheers,

   Seth

5. 
   P3Driver | Jan 02, 2005 06:59pm | #9

   Go with Lie-Nielsen planes if you want a plane that will work out of the box.  Anything less expensive is going to need hours of work to get it to work properly, and then it will need tuning on a regular basis.  LN planes are expensive, but they are a one time purchase for the rest of your life and the life of the person who inherits them from you.  I'd rather get one LN plane a year than a half dozen "average quality" planes in one year.

6. 
   Midnight | Jan 02, 2005 10:42pm | #10

   You've had some pretty good answers so far. I'd like to go a step deeper before giving an opinion, and ask what you intend to use them for. Method in the madness; New Stanleys sell on the strength of their predecessors reputation, without being able to hold a candle to the build quality of the older planes. The grinding of the soles is pitiful, the mouths will need fettling, blades need polishing etc etc. However, in spite of their limitations, they still sell pretty well.
   If you intend to work exclusively with softwood, and well mannered softwood at that, the new Stanleys will cope adequately once they've been tuned. If however you intend to work hardwood, the limitations of the planes will soon become apparent. Even when tuned, the lack of thickness and poor quality steel in their blades will make tearout an ever-present danger. Blades and chip-breakers can be upgraded with after market examples, but there's a limit to how thick a blade that they can take.
   While Lie Nielsen are thought of as one of the best manufacturers, they're by no means the only company making good quality Bedrock planes thesedays; both Lee Valley and Clifton have well deserved reputations for making highly capable tools that need little in the way of tuning before they're ready to be put to use. All three companies have excellent customer services too in the event of something going wrong; their aim is 100% customer satisfaction. By design, all three manufacturers use really thick high grade steel for their blades, and that extra thickness will always out-perform a well tuned Stanley that's been upgraded with an aftermarket blade.

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

1. 
   Miami | Jan 03, 2005 06:21pm | #11

   "By design, all three manufacturers use really thick high grade steel for their blades, and that extra thickness will always out-perform a well tuned Stanley that's been upgraded with an aftermarket blade."

   Mike, is there a glitch in that sentence, or is the glitch in me?  Seems that the aftermarket blade for the Stanley will be the equivalent of (if not identical to) the stock irons in newer LNs, LVs, etc., so there would, after upgrading the iron in an old Stanley, be no 'extra thickness' in the newer planes' irons.

   Having fiddled with my 605 at some length though, I am NOT saying that a new LN has no advantage over an old Bedrock that's been fitted with a new Hock or LN iron - I just find that the advantage is not in the iron.

   Clay

1. 
   Midnight | Jan 03, 2005 11:15pm | #12

   Miami, the limiting factor is the reach (or lack thereof) of the Stanley yoke. To compensate for this, as you'll see from the link below, replacement blades are 0.095" thick, while stock L-N blades are 0.125" thick. In both cases the material is cryo hardened A2 steel. The difference in material thickness is necessary to ensure a proper fit between the yoke and chip breaker.Hope this helps  ;)

   Lie Nielsen's explanation id far clearer than mine.

   "Replacement blades for Bench Planes must be thinner to fit the original Stanley, Record or other makers' Bench Planes. If the blade is too thick, the yoke on your plane will not properly engage the slot in the Chipbreaker, The Chipbreaker Screw may not be long enough to install the Chipbreaker at all, but most important the mouth opening may not be large enough to allow the blade, or a shaving, to pass.Therefore, Bench Plane blades ordered from the list above, identified by width, will be .095" thick, which will work fine on most Bench Planes. Blades of the same width, ordered as replacement blades for our own planes, identified by the tool number (e.g., BL-4) will be thicker (.125" for the 4 and 5, .140" for the 4-1/2 and .175" for the No. 8.)"

    

   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/blades.htmlMike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun