Replies

1. 
   jhausch | Jul 14, 2003 06:35pm | #1

   You forgot to include the cost of the hearing aid in the cost of the powered Jointer ;-)

   Steelkilt Lives!
1. 
   sainbern | Jul 14, 2003 08:40pm | #2

   Hi Jim;

   But the handplane game is dustfree and quiet, to me there is no maching tool for the plane, plus it keeps my heart pumping.....

   Bernard

2. 
   jimmyk | Jul 14, 2003 09:50pm | #3

   Hearing protection is cheap.

2. 
   JeffKurtz | Jul 14, 2003 11:21pm | #4

   Since every woodworker should have a good bench, I don't think it's fair to include the price of that in the equation.  Also consider that even if you purchased an 8" jointer, you still wouldn't be able to face joint stock wider than 8".  Without your hand planes and skills you'd have to rip wide stock, machine it, then glue it back together - just like Norm does!!!

   Jeff

3. 
   DavidP52 | Jul 14, 2003 11:50pm | #5

   I think planes become an obsession with some people, just like sharpening and computers and other addictions. I've got my own, but they don't have anything to do with wood working.

   Planes aren't an efficient use of your time. I use mine only for highly figured woods, finish work and such. After you've abused you body for 40 years, you discover that hard labor is definitely not good for it, so why be masochistic???

   Enjoy your jointer -- I certainly enjoy mine with every pass. With practice you can make the machine do almost everything the hand too does. My collection of jointer knives is as large as anyone else's plane collection. I do not, however, sharpen my own knives. <VBG>

4. 
   BG | Jul 15, 2003 02:30am | #6

   Molton,

   You're absolutely correct. I'm only surprised the five planes cost so little..they could have cost at least $1000 or a lot more.

   But while your figuring..also take into consideration buying S2S or S3S wood...which eliminates the jointer and a lot of other wood waste...

   One more calculation: does woodworking make economic sense?   not really, there is some mighty fine used stuff going for a song.

   So the real question has to be why do we do it ?....and if everything we needed to do had a tail.....

   Let me ask you one question:  Does it feel good to have that board sitting on that bench all nice and secure and you with a sharpened plane that fits your hand like a glove?   Or would you rather throw a switch...

1. 
   DavidP52 | Jul 15, 2003 03:23am | #7

   Woodworking makes a heck of a lot more sense than most hobbies. Take golf, for example. Grown men and women hitting little white balls around and chasing after the balls in battery powered vehicles.

   There is no way I could afford the quality of furniture that now fills my whole house, not to mention all the custom joiner work on thehouse iself. So yes, it makes great economic sense, particularly considering that I could be pushing paper and talking on the phone in order to pay for what I want. Instead, I make it and get the best of both worlds.

   But you know the truth of this issue as well as the rest of us. You do what YOU do because that is YOUR thing. So, I wish you great joy with your planes whilst I stroke my puny 6" jointer which I love like a child just as others do their planes.

   Or we could just continue poking fun at each other, keeping in mind that it's all good natured jibing before the wind.

   BTW: hows your Arkansas and Naguras doing? Can you shave the atoms off a molecule yet?

1. 
   BG | Jul 15, 2003 01:21pm | #9

   Boatman,

   Gees, don't get me wrong...I want both...Jointer and hand planes.  I was trying to point out to Molton what I perceive are the realities....or at least my realities: Hand tools ain't cheaper than machines...and for the amount of wood I buy for a project, buying S3S is a good deal...I usually buy a combination of rgh and S2 or 3S. Essentially, I'm agreeing with Molton's observations.

   Putting all that aside, however, there are two acquisitions I made which impacted me greatly..and I don't know exactly why...the cabinet saw and the workbench.  Both of these tools seemed to change my perception of what I could accomplish...in both accuracy and wood shaping.  They seem to change my little space as well as my goals.  i was wondering if Molton or others have had a similar experience.

    I don't own a jointer or a bandsaw or even a decent router table.  They may have a similar impact as the TS has...  

1. 
   DavidP52 | Jul 15, 2003 03:29pm | #13

   Why the workbench?

1. 
   BG | Jul 15, 2003 05:50pm | #14

   Boatman,

   "Why the workbench?"

   Im not sure why it has meant so much, but it has.  I use it like another tool..not a set up bench ...it provides an extremely solid and level surface to square up the stock (yes, the S3S often needs planing) and hold various shapes securely.  I also use my bench to hold various jigs for the router and such that allows me to get things more efficiently.  Lastly, the workbench provides a space for repeatability, not only with the jigs but also with hand tools.  For instance, in cutting dovetails, I can position the stock at the same height every time...and get better repeatability with the saw...and learn about my own weaknesses and apply successful workarounds.

2. 
   fdampier5 | Jul 15, 2003 12:14pm | #8

   Can I answer that question please?

        It depends on how you wish to waste your time..  Since clearly economics don't play into things here..  It's like fishing.. the money you spend on the gear and getting there is always more than the value of the fish you bring back..

         If you like the peace and quiet of a blade rasping against a board and the skill of making a hand held thing do something it has a difficult time doing (staying level and true)  then that is your answer..  You then are journey driven..

      If you like to achieve something and make things then that is your goal and you'll do whatever helps you to achieve those goals..Then you are goal driven..

        To claim one is correct and the other is wrong would be foolish..

3. 
   jimmyk | Jul 15, 2003 02:46pm | #12

   2 of the planes were block planes, and they're all Stanley so they're not exactly top of the line. When I buy S2S or S3S, there's still twist and bow to deal with, so there seems to be no benefit.

5. 
   Crunk | Jul 15, 2003 01:55pm | #10

   It doesn't take five different planes to replace the functionality of the electric jointer.  Your post mentioned that you decided to use hand planes instead of buying a jointer.  If that was your sole reason, then you've overbought.

   This is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

   You could joint, plane to thickness, and smooth with only a No. 6 and a No. 7 (and a few scraper blades) along with a few extra irons ground wth slightly different profiles.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/15/2003 7:09:36 AM ET by BossCrunk

6. 
   RMillard | Jul 15, 2003 01:57pm | #11

   The debate over the efficiency of a power jointer vs. hand planes to one that won’t ever die, but for myself I put it to rest long ago, and the hand planes won. I will make some 30-40 pieces of furniture this year, that range from small ( but intricately inlaid) side tables to tall case clocks, all without a jointer.

   Stock preparation is the most basic of operations in woodworking, but arguably the most important, because everything that follows will depend on its accuracy. I will spend less than the equivalent of 2-3 weeks on stock preparation this year, so this makes it a minor operation as far as time is concerned . Many of the boards I used wouldn’t fit through commonly available jointers, leaving me to hand plane the bulk of my work anyway.

   I too have spent more on hand planes than a 8”jointer would cost, but those planes are far more versatile, and leave a surface ready for finish. Both the hand planes and jointer require a certain amount of skill to use, but I think the jointer is far less predictable, even when mastered.

   I often here people say they will purchase S2S or S3S to avoid the step of flattening stock. I don’t know where they buy their lumber, but in my experience it is the rare board that comes from the mill anywhere near flat.

   I’ll be the first to admit, that standing around, sweating, ankle deep in plane shavings is not a lot of fun, but neither is wrestling a twisted board over a machine, with hearing protectors, and a dust mask .

   Rob Millard