Replies

1. 
   RMillard | Dec 10, 2003 05:44am | #1

   BG,

   I run into this situation with some of the hinges I use. What I do is, just squeeze the hinges in the vise to make the leaves lie together.

   Rob Millard

1. 
   BG | Dec 10, 2003 02:25pm | #3

   Rob, Jazzdog,

   Thanks for the suggestions, I may try a bit of each....they are a lot better than buying new hinges...

1. 
   Steinmetz | Dec 10, 2003 11:56pm | #4

   Bg, most hinges are designed to be used on beveled edged doors. Beveling provides for minimum gap on both sides.

   When you mortise out for hinges, don't only mortise the door's edge and thereby trust the little screws on the frame to carry all the weight.

   Once you arrive at the optimum 'Gain' for your particular hinges, stick with it. I always make a 'mock up' from small pieces of stock to try out depths.

   Squeezing hinges are asking for trouble.(If any one screw happens to be 'proud of the hinge's surface, it will pinch against the opposite screw.)

   Nothing wrong with mortising a 'tad' deeper. That's what old playing cards (Shims) are for. To shim a hinge to movethe door away, loosen screws, insert cardboard shim just up to the screws...tighten screws. If you need more moving over, add another shim. After tightening, slice off the excess shim with a utility knife. 

    You can 'Shim' a hinge back toward the frame  with this trick...

   Support the door with a wedge, remove the frame's hinge leaf and screws.... cut a shim as long as the hinge's length and just 1/4" inch wide...Place shim in the mortise near the shoulder of the mortise and replace the screws.  This will 'Cant' the hinge and pull the door towards the frame.

   If the door has 3 hinges, remove the middle hinge 'till you have the door shimmed to your satisfaction Then shim the middle hinge with the amount of shim necessary G'Luck Stein.

   Edited 12/10/2003 4:03:31 PM ET by steinmetz

1. 
   BG | Dec 11, 2003 01:13am | #5

   Stein,

   That is a slew of great information, thanks much.  Being a newbie, I really bust my &*(% to get it right the first time cause I don't know any workarounds or how to tweak for whatever. 

   I just came up from gluing up the doors so tomorrow I'll know how many of your ideas I'll need to depoly.  I did fit them before the glue up....yes, morticed each side, increased the depth...had a dime space on both sides between the doors and the carcas.  I also have a gap between the doors in the middle..but the top is farther apart then the bottom by about 1/16" (at the bottom the doors are touching right now)...it seems a carcas flairs out a bit....have not applied the top yet, may try to eliminate the gap....and plane to achieve a dime gap. 

   Bevelig the doors, fascinating...I never would have guessed...5 degree slope?

1. 
   Steinmetz | Dec 11, 2003 03:48am | #6

   BG, shim over the bottom hinge to close gap edge opposite the hinge side   

   5 deg's is o k (So the leading edge doesn't hit.) Shim back the top hinge to close the gap Stein   You are one of the few Woodheads who replied to my posts. Except Forest Gurl of course! Stein

   Edited 12/10/2003 8:02:33 PM ET by steinmetz

2. 
   BG | Dec 11, 2003 05:48pm | #9

   Stein,

   I grew up in CT and NY (aka, Flushing Flash)...I understand your accent...lol.

   FG has naturally curly hair....so more is expected...

   I took the clamps off the doors this morning and did a test fit....not bad.  After a bit of futzing I have a nice even gap going down both sides between the carcas and the doors....with about a 1/32" between the doors in the middle...except up near the top which is about 1/16".  I'm inclined to leave it alone....because the gap is from the carcas flairing..and I may be able to close that when I put on the top. The top is a full 5/4 white oak with 1/4" dado's that slide over the top of the ply carcas....I'll attach with dowels...altough I'm thinking about using biscuits...

2. 
   Norse | Dec 11, 2003 03:39pm | #8

   Good advice on beveling and shimming; just a couple words of warning for those not so experienced:

   Shim material: Don't use compressible cardboard. The playing cards work well as do laminates. I can't tell you how many doors, both cabinet and person size doors, I've fixed over the years because the shims (often the boxes the hinges come in) someone used compressed over time.

   Door bevels: Be careful of the degree of bevel, 5 degrees is a lot for a 3/4" door. I just did a quick AutoCad sketch imposing a circle on a 3/4" x 12" door, the difference at the edge is 5/256" or about 3.5 degrees. It doesn't take much and too much poses other problems. A little bevel on the hinge side helps too if something is a tad out of square.

   Norse

2. 
   jazzdogg | Dec 10, 2003 07:31am | #2

   BG,

   I use dial calipers to measure the thickness of the barrel and chop my hinge gains to half their thickness. Provides a very small gap, yet allows the doors to open and close without binding.

   Good luck,
   Paul

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
3. 
   RMillard | Dec 11, 2003 04:53am | #7

   BG,

   If squeezing hinges is asking for trouble, then I’ve been asking, but not receiving it for a long time. The gap between the hinge leaves, which will equal the gap between the door and frame, will insure the screws won’t bind the door. If the screws stood proud of the hinge surface all you’d need to do is take a coutersink and enlarge the hole in the hinge. There are three things I left out of the first reply. Always use a Vix bit or a centering punch ( not center punch), to insure the screw holes are centered. At first drill only one hole in each leaf, to give you some play if you have to shift things. And last but not least, you can do some pretty substantial adjusting of the fit without resorting to shims, by placing a thin ( approximately 3/32”) strip of wood between the hinge leaves and closing the door gently. This will move the door away from the hinge side frame. If the door is already too far from the hinge side, then you can go back to the vise and give it a little squeeze. I learned this trick while working as a carpenter hanging doors, where the hinges were all factory swaged ( a fancy way of saying pinched in a vise).

                                                Rob Millard

1. 
   BG | Dec 11, 2003 06:07pm | #10

   Rob,

   There is nothing like watching a finish carpenter in the field applying his knowledge.  I've watched oldtimers shoot miters with nothing more than a knee and a block plane...what seam?

   I did use the vix..and put the brass screws aside until I'm ready to do final assembly...learned that one the hard way.  I made single holes except in the first hinge...where I did not use the vix and screwed up. 

   As it turns out I have a good gap all the way around, only slightly larger at the top from the carcas.  If I cant' pick it up when I attach the top I may plane it a bit....with enough time I'll screw it up for sure..lol