Replies

1. 
   jazzdogg | Aug 18, 2004 04:47am | #1

   Hi FG,

   I rip a piece of stock (approx 1 x 6) at a 45-degree angle and attach one piece to the wall and its mating half to the back of the cabinet.

   The half that's attached to the wall acts as a kind of ledger and, as long as the cabinet is at least 16" wide, is screwed into two (or more) studs. I'll sometimes trim the piece that's attached to the wall so it's a little shorter than the cabinet is wide, which allows some lateral adjustment without the ledger protruding from the side.

   Needless to say, it's important to attach the ledger using a level reference. If you're working alone, one simple trick is to strike a level pencil line, stick the ledger to the wall with a hot glue gun, and then screw it to the studs.

   If you've planned the half of the french cleat that attaches to the back of the cabinet as an integral component not only will the cabinet be a little stronger, but it'll fit flush against the wall; if it's an add-on, you may have to add a kicker (the same thickness as the cleat) to the bottom of the cabinet so it will hang plumb.

   Let me know if you have any more questions,

   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

2. 
   EdHarrison | Aug 18, 2004 05:32am | #2

   FG,

   Before I retired I built a large 4' X 4'  X 18 inch deep cabinet to hang uniforms and flight gear in, in my office at work.  Now it is tool cabinet in my machine shop at home.  French cleats, both times.  If you have a large cabinet like that (two people to lift and hang), I recommend French cleats from 1 X 4 pine strips and a lag screw (say 3/8" X 3 1/2") into every single stud in the wall.  Eighteen inch on center studs so thats where your lag screw holes are in your wall cleats.  (Note: sometimes lag screws are referred to as "lag bolts", but they're technically a screw, like a giant wood screw with a hex head.)  Drill pilot holes through the wall into the stud and be aware of possibility of electrical wires (supposed to have a metal cover plate on the stud where the wire goes through).

     I recommend two French cleats, one on the top of the cabinet back and one on the bottom.  The other way to do it is just one French cleat on the top and spacer strip on the bottom, but I want that thing to be hurricane and earthquake-proof once it is hung on the wall.  For the wall cleats you have to counter bore holes for the lag screw heads with a Forstner bit, and use washers.  For the cabinet cleats you use stout wood screws into the cabinet frame, not the back.  Retighten the lag screws in the wall after after a couple years.

   Clear as mud?  Takes a while to do but it will be dead rock solid on the wall.

   Anyway, that's my philosophy on it.  Good luck, Ed

   The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods. - Socrates
1. 
   jazzdogg | Aug 18, 2004 06:26am | #3

   Eighteen inch on center studs so thats where your lag screw holes are in your wall cleats.

   Ed,

   Not to nitpick, but studs are usually on sixteen-inch centers.

   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   EdHarrison | Aug 18, 2004 06:34am | #4

   Yep, you're right - don't know what I was thinking. "No Excuse, Sir!"

   The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods. - Socrates

3. 
   hammer1 | Aug 18, 2004 06:54am | #5

   The cleats will show from the side unless the cabinet sides are extended wide enough to cover it. Often finished end panels are added. The cleat on the wall needs to be shimmed out slightly so that it is straight and the cabinet cleat will slip over it. It should be level. The cleat on the cabinet needs to be secure and also level. Not so easy with 1/4" backs. You can use two cleats top and bottom if needed or just a kicker on the bottom. The bevel of the cleat doesn't have to be 45, 15 is plenty for a grip. They sell metal Z-strips which are not very thick. They also make some interlocking hangers that are great for wall clocks and heavy mirrors but they must be installed perfectly to align. Personally I find french cleats to be a pain on cabinets. They don't fit over each other if there is any little wave in either piece. Sure is easier to add a nailing strip and screw through. I always remove doors and shelves on cabinets before I try to lift them. Europeans sometimes own the kitchen cabinets and take them down when they move. Store displays and fixtures can get moved periodically too, so there are some good places to use this type of fastening.

4. 
   nikkiwood | Aug 18, 2004 07:21am | #6

   How many ways can you do French cleats..................??

   I have an alcove in my shop -- maybe 15 X 15 -- and I hung a continuous run of 3/4" cleats along the three walls (at wall cabinet height). The width of the cleat is about 1 1/2" to the short side of the angle, and I anchored them along the run with a single 3" drywall screw driven into each stud.

   I have 5 wall cabinets in this area; each has a mating cleat screwed along the entire width of the cabinet (at the top), with a 3/4" spacer strip screwed to the bottom (of the back).

   I use these cabinets mainly for fasteners, so they are pretty heavy when fully loaded. I also use the cleats for other paraphernalia (board with a rack for Forstner bits, etc.).

   None of the cabs have come crashing down in the 15 or so years I've used the system, and I do move them around whenever I want to reconfigure the space -- maybe 4-5 times over the years.

   This is a great system, and if I ever redo my shop, I would run these cleats all the way around.

   Got the idea from a reader tip in a mag. Can't remember the guy's name, but I do recall he was from Eau Claire, WI. Funny what the mind chooses to remember................

5. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Aug 18, 2004 07:44pm | #7

   I use a 4" cleat as my top nailer in my cabinets and a 3 1/2-4" mating cleat on the wall.  I typically have my 1/4" backs set in 3/4-1" and cut out the side of the cabinet where the cleat will pass & allow enough room to drop the cabinet on the wall cleat.  I always secure my cabinets thru the top & bottom nailers to the wall.  You can do the traditional bevel or use a pair of rabbeted cleats which allow for more adjustment. 

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/18/2004 12:46 pm ET by craig

6. 
   OrchidGuy | Aug 19, 2004 12:57am | #8

   Hi forestgirl,

    In 20 years of doing custom cabinet work I've always used a french cleat. I've been taught to use a beveled 1 x 4 ledger on the wall and a beveled 1 x 4 attached to the cabinent. We have always built the cleat into our cabinent backs as an integrated piece. Just place a level line on the wall for the ledger, a laser makes quick work of marking a level line. Just find and locate the studs, attach the ledger with hex head screws, then your'e ready for the cabinets. I prefer to use hex head screws that are 5" in length on a 2 x 6 stud. As for lifting cabinets, if no one else is available to help with the heavy lifting, you can use a cabinent lift to position and lift the boxes. The Gillift is an excellent model. Check with the local tool rental places, if you're not interested in an outright purchase.

   Click here for the cabinet lift:http://www.telproinc.com

   For lasers click here:http://www.laserlevels.net

   I would recommend using a Laser Jamb, if you use a laser next time, it allows you to position the laser anywhere in the room.

   Those daring young men in their flying machines!

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 19, 2004 07:32pm | #9

   WOW!  Thanks!  I've got French Cleat info now to cover all my present and future installations, LOL!  And picked up some handy work-tips too.

   Jazzdog:  Hadn't thought about using hot-glue, and I have a gun too.  Definitely would have made the job easier the other night.

   Ed FM:  Lag bolts, eh?  "Dead Solid" is right!  I didn't go quite that far on this cabinet, but will keep those in mind for heavier applications.

   Hammer:  Thanks for the note that 45* isn't mandatory.  I get hung up on stuff like that, making the job more difficult sometimes.  The French Cleat thing is just for shop cabinets, so they can be moved easily when the mood strikes me (I already don't like where I put this one, LOL!).  I'm not quite following why the cleat on the wall needs to be shimmed out, though.........

   Nikki:  I have fantasies about the cleats running all the way around the shop too.  Next shop, maybe, ha ha.  I guess 15 years is a pretty good test, eh?

   Craig:  "rabbeted cleat"  Yes!  I was trying to figure out how to describe that earlier, and was wondering if it might be a better way to go than having that real sharp point on each one.

   f4phanatic:  Thanks for the links.  Seems I always get in these installation moods when hubby at his job in Oregon.  I've learned the hard way not to push myself in trying to "do it alone" and can call in the son-in-law when necessary, but a cabinet lift might come in handy in the future.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Aug 20, 2004 07:22am | #10

   FG-

   I tend to prefer the rabbeted cleat, as I find it allows more adjustment on not so straight walls and tend to be more forgiving than the beveled cleats. 

   BTW, the Fastcap 3rd hand comes in real handy hanging uppers/  only ~ $35 each. 

1. 
   nikkiwood | Aug 20, 2004 07:35am | #11

   Rabbeted cleats??? --- that's a great idea, which never even occurred to me.

   You're exactly right that a "belly" in the wall (say at a butt seam) can make working with cleats cut at an angle much more difficult.

   You ought to write this up and send it to the FWW Methods of Work people -- before somebody else does. I'm serious about this -- either FWW will pick it up, or some other mag will. They are always starving for decent tips, and this is a good one.

2. 
   toddhunter | Aug 20, 2004 11:32pm | #12

   I don't get it. Can you explain or diagram a rabbeted cleat? Todd

1. 
   UncleDunc | Aug 21, 2004 07:16am | #13

   Scroll down to the first picture.

   http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Recessed_or_flush_cabinet_backs.html

2. 
   forestgirl | Aug 21, 2004 08:48am | #15

   Hmmmmmmm, that's different from what I was thinking of.  If you're using solid wood, wouldn't that be prone to breakage?  I guess not, since you've had success.  I'm sleepy.  Will look again tomorrow.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   hammer1 | Aug 21, 2004 07:54am | #14

   Forestgirl, on a long run, if the wall sweeps in and out, the cabinets won't fit over the cleat. Sometimes tightening the cleats to the wall will not allow the cabinet to sit in full contact with the wall cleat. If one end won't fit down it will hang out of level. You also may have to bang on the top a little if things don't have some slack. I just use a washer for a spacer on short runs.