I am having an issue getting hard maple to the color that the custom is looking for. The custom got the stain for me, custom mixed color, and the sample from the store was 3 coats to get that dark. I am not seeing much of any difference in coat 1 to coat 2, And it’s not dark enough. I did not use conditioner, but also never have in the past and I have done quite a bit of stain work. I have to wipe it on, the wipe again to blend in the streaks. That just tends to wipe it almost all back off on the second coat. I tried letting it sit longer, but it gets sticky and dry, and cant wipe streaks in. I use blue shop towels, always have, I also tried a foam brush, but no difference. It still needs to be wiped even. I called the store who sold them the stain, but they were no help, just told me I was doing it right. The stain feels like I am putting on a thinned out paint, although I know it is stain. Can anyone help with advice on getting it closer to the color they want?
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Oil or water base ?
Oil based stain.
Adding oil based stain will actually tend to lighten the previous coats, you only get one chance to get the darkest color and time before wiping is your only friend . Maple being closed grain and hard will not take much stain, the sanding pattern is what will control mostly the color. We could not sand over 100 grit without it being too light, and you could see sanding marks. So either use a coarser sandpaper or use dyes or waterborne stains.
I have not done a lot of stain work, but feel for you. I could never get much more darkening after the first coat, as it seals the wood almost completely. It may be too late for you, but I have gone almost entirely to alcohol based dyes (Transtint brand), which I can mix with different blends of colors and different strengths. With it, a second coat tends to even out any unevenness in the color. Warning: if you use it, the only way to accurately judge the final color is after the top coat is applied. It can change the color significantly and the depth of color as well.
Maple is really tough to get to stain dark; if you sand it coarsely enough for the stain to stick, it shows the scratches. Good luck!
The color of the stain in the can means nothing. Put that stain on pine, oak, and maple, and you get three vastly different colors. I'm not sure how the customer picked the color, but you need to start from scratch. Use the wood that the stain is going on to match the color.
Wood color changes over time, too. Finishes fade, maple will darken. It's part of the charm.
The customer had a scrap piece that I had given them. The took it to Repcolite with an existing piece of furniture from a different location in the house that they like the color of and had it matched. They said it took 3 coats at the store to get the color to match. But I can not repeat this myself. They only did the test on a small 1x5 area on the board also. I wonder if at the store they did not wipe it off like need to due to the small area not showing "brush" marks.
I suspect you might be right about the store’s application not being properly comparable to your own—if they didn’t wipe it down at all after application, it seems that would likely lead to the sequence of events you describe.
I suggest taking another piece of scrap of the same material and treating it in the way that we suspect was done at the shop—apply the stain, in a smooth-as-readily-practicable fashion, and stop. Let it dry, see if it reasonably matches/approximates (remembering this is hard maple). If it does, I would explain to the customer that the final finished surfaces of the two techniques—apply stain, let sit, wipe down, reapply, etc., versus apply, let dry, and then perhaps reapply or topcoat—are two different approaches, and will have different looks (not just in darkness of color, but depth, regularity, how it works with the grain , etc.). If you take the store’s approach on through to a final finish, does it produce a look acceptable to the client? Or not quite? Communication with the client about results, options, etc., can then be undertaken with as much knowledge and information available for both parties as possible.
It is a reminder that in staining wood, the result is neither completely predictable nor fully under one’s control. One cannot “cut to the line” with a stain, nor precisely measure and match a given effect. (Though with lots of experience, some masters of finishing can get amazingly close, I’ll admit.)
https://www.repcolite.com/wp-content/uploads/products/tds/816_tds.pdf
I saw that the other day. It was not very helpful. It appears they call it a paint stain? So different than others?
Have you tried it this way ?
..May be applied with a brush, pad or spray. Apply a thin coat evenly
over the surface, avoiding overlaps. If desired, wipe the stained surface
lightly with a lint-free cloth to lighten or even out the color...
I tried brush and pad, but not spray. I dont have a good system for spray. I find that I have to wipe it to even it out, but cant get it dark enough. I have a few "crazy" ideas I am trying on scrap. But if I dont like those results, will just talk with the customer on it.
The part that says avoid overlap is almost impossible to perform, but their intent seems to apply an even coat and not wipe it, or minimally.
Maple's low porosity makes it very hard for me to work with pigmented stains. After a few less than desirable outcomes in staining maple, I switched to dyes.
I have had nothing but success since the change 15 years ago. There is, of course, a learning curve. One adjustment I make to the accepted method is mixing the dyes at 1/2 strength. That allows me to sneak up on the color I want. The dyes make maple's subtle grain pop.
I have also been successful blending colors to get what I wanted. A recent mahogany cellarette was dyed with a mix of Transtint reddish brown (a liquid concentrate) and Arti's light mahogany, which is a powder - they were compatible in the alcohol solvent. I might add that the Arti has been in the cabinet since the early 80s.
I apply with pieces of old T shirts. I have also used a cheap air brush to add additional dye to some sapwood on cherry, getting it close enough to the rest that it is almost undetectable. This Queen Anne table is maple: https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/276114
I will probably never go back to pigmented stains. I suggest giving dye a try.
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