Replies

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Nov 13, 2007 05:32pm | #1

   Try this link: http://www.nofma.org/.  Probably way more info. than you need but it is the Bible, so to speak.  Not sure what flooring you're talking about but I have seen/used Sure-Lock, http://www.surelock.com/ for commercial installations.

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

2. 
   JeffHeath | Nov 13, 2007 06:18pm | #2

   Unless they wander over here, you'll get more answers from flooring guys over at Breaktime.  Some guys here may have an answer for you, but over there you'll have MANY.

   For gaps that large, you're definately asking for trouble.  When I re-did the floor in an area of my home, (built in 1946), some of the floor joists were off by as much as 2" from one end of the room to the other.  After I jacked the house back to level on that side, I sistered 2 X 10's onto the original joists, using a snap line for accuracy.  THEN, I attached new 3/4" T & G plywood down, glued and screwed.

   You may need to remove the flooring and do this to avoid the gaps, which will definately, at the least, cause your new hardwood floor to squeek so bad it will drive you nuts. 

   Jeff

    

1. 
   dougmeyer | Nov 13, 2007 06:30pm | #3

   Befor you go that far (taking the floor back up) you should be able to use some sort of gap filler. Not sure what type is best (I would talk with the folk on the Fine HomeBuilder part of this site) but it would be a LOT less work then pulling up the floor.

   Doug

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Nov 13, 2007 07:07pm | #4

   Hi Doug,

   Try this link. http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwoodinstaller/gluedown-prep.htm.  We used to use Ardex on concrete.  Not sure if the Mapei is for wood.

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

   Edited 11/13/2007 11:08 am ET by KiddervilleAcres

3. 
   frenchy | Nov 13, 2007 07:52pm | #5

   waljay,

      Well my floors vary far more than that, it required some fussing with but came out fine in the end.. go to 34866.1 to see. 

    Major differances. I didn't use preformed strip flooring, I used random width wide plank flooring. (up to 14 inches wide)    I didn't nail since there was that much variation I screwed and face plugged. I screwed both because the floor wasn't dead level flat and because I used some wood that had warped twisted and danced around like a hootchie cootchie dancer. came out perfectly flat in the end and wow do I like the look..

    Ther is absolutely no way that nails will stay down whereas with screws it will bend inch thick boards to whatever you ask of them..  Just remember to predrill and countersink first..

      There are a couple of ways to deal with really out of level flooring..

    first you could sand stuff pretty close to flat, but that is real time consuming and a pain in the back.  (not to mentions dusty and noisy and expensive) 

    second you could shim the floor close to level using cedar shingles..

    If you don't like the look of plugs in your wood there is another approach.  Drill holes in the subflooring at the spacing you'll need to put screws in then from below run the screws up into the flooring.. Hidden fastners..

     You can actaully use sheet rock screws in this application, (not approved but they will work)  

    When you're done make sure you use shellac as a finish, I know But trust me it's the best finish for floors since sliced bread!

    Ask me and I'll explain all the advantages

    I'll also tell you the best time to put wood flooring in and several tricks to doing so...

      PS it's among the hardest, most durable finish there is for a floor.  

4. 
   gcg | Nov 13, 2007 11:58pm | #6

   Use a floor leveling product.  Its like concrete or grout but not nearly as viscous.  When mixed properly, it will self level; its what it is made to do.  Find and mark all the low spots on your floor that are out of tolerance.  Put down the leveler and use a large straight edge to screed off the excess. 

   With solid panels I would definitely try to level as best as you can.  I wouldn't try to bend the panels to fit the floor because it will look bad and/or the nails will pop.  Also if you don't level it it will sqeak and bounce.  Neither a good outcome.  The floor leveler is easy.

5. 
   Dave45 | Nov 14, 2007 03:02am | #7

   Check the manufacturers installation instructions for allowable "gaps" between the subfloor and their flooring.  Don't be surprised if they have a number <<1/4" - lol

   I would also use something better than a 6' rule (folding carpenters rule?) to check the "flatness" of your floor.  Get a piece of aluminum angle or square tubing from a hardware store and use that.  It's probably much straighter than that ruler.

6. 
   jdclarey | Nov 14, 2007 04:52am | #8

   Waljay,

   I do Hardwood Installing and Refinishing for a living so I hope that my advice carries some worth.  When we install in a new home (new construction) the unlevelness you are talking about would not be acceptable (that doesnt mean the contractor wouldn't let it go), but that is because it's a new house.  We do installs on remodels all the time on house that are 100yrs old and thats right over the plank subfloor.  Due to doors, cabinets and other various things, plywood can't always be added.  Let me asure you that many of these houses are much worse than 1/4 inch gaps over 3-6ft.  Think of all the old floors you've seen that have 1 inch rises in them and many of the the 100yr old ones are 1 inch not 3/4 inch hardwood.   Structually you have no concerns and the gaps you're talking about and the wood will go together with no problem, you shouldn't be too concerned about the asthetics either.  One thing I dont think you mentioned is whether it is a prefinished or unfinished.  If you are going prefinished, use a good product with precision bevel or else the unlevelness will show on the board edges and if you are going unfinished use a good product (bottom line, use a good product... Not $2 sqft Menards special) and take care sanding making sure not to leave cut lines near unlevel areas.  Hope this gives you some confidence. 

7. 
   jdclarey | Nov 14, 2007 05:09am | #9

   I just reread your post and notice you are using some sort of prefinished.  I have never used somthing that is 3/4 inch and slabbed together as you mention but when you install, use a pneumatic  Bostich Flooring stapler or cleat nailer if the stapler isn't available.  You can rent them for cheap.  Staples hold so much better than nails (thats comming from many a sq ft of removing both.)  An just as important it knocks that tongue and groove together much better than any nailing could.  Just for a warning, if your prefinished product is 3/4 inch and uses three plys and one of the ply joints are right where the staple of nail enters the wood this can cause a bubble where ever you nail it because you are seperating the plys and the only way to avoid this is to use 15 gauge nailers or less, which is why I dont like them.  It will hold at first but will squeak something fierce in a few years, where staples hold.  If you are carefull you can get away with cleats but turn the pressure down and dont slam the nailer to hard.

   By the way, Im not a fan of floor leveler. but if it's a must (for your own asthetic pleasure), use something thats not brittle or else your staples or nails will bust it up and your floor will squeak. 

    

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/13/2007 9:28 pm ET by jdclarey

1. 
   Oilers | Nov 15, 2007 07:45am | #10

   What floor leveling products are recommended for hardwood floor installations when the flooring is nailed or stapled to the subfloor?  I have tried without success to find a product I can drive nails into that wouldn't shatter.

   I used building paper to shim low spots in my subfloor to get a level surface to install my hardwood flooring.    This was time consuming so any recommendations on a self leveling product that can be nailed is appreciated.

1. 
   TonyCz | Nov 22, 2007 10:11pm | #11

   Maybe a combination of nailing where you have a solid wood sub floor to nail into. and where you have used floor leveler use flooring glue?.

   I agree leveling the floor is very important!

1. 
   JMartinsky | Nov 24, 2007 12:35am | #12

   Dear Tony,
   In my experience, leveling, or more accurately, "flattening" a subfloor is not all that important. A flat subfloor is desirable, but not necessary. I have installed oak floors over some extremely uneven subfloors with good results. Not a lot of fun, but it can be done. 3/4" oak is pretty tough stuff and can accommodate a variety of wrongs. I would prefer to have a solid subfloor over a flat subfloor. That being said, I have seen a couple of methods for taking out low spots:1) Durabond (A heavy duty joint compound) which can be nailed through, is good for "spot filling" up to 1/2", otherwise, your nails or staples won't be able to bite into the subfloor.2) Sanding/ planing off high spots, no more than 1/4" for 3/4" subfloors.3) Filling in low spots with layers of construction adhesive and shims. This is a "last resort" and best done when a layer of 1/4" or better ply can be lain over the entire subfloor to lock it all together. I would stay away for concrete or portland cement type fillers due to the following:1) They are prone holding moisture which is miserable for red oak in particular and flooring in general. 2) They aren't really conducive to nailing.3) Yes they can be glued to, but that means discarding a moisture barrier (paper) which, when coupled with the tendency towards holding moisture is asking for trouble.I have used water mixed, floor leveling compounds in the past, but only when a moisture barrier and then a new subfloor is to be installed over it such as in a basement remodel.Best,JohnEdited 11/23/2007 4:36 pm ET by JmartinskyEdited 11/23/2007 4:38 pm ET by Jmartinsky

   Edited 11/23/2007 4:39 pm ET by Jmartinsky

1. 
   TonyCz | Nov 24, 2007 07:00am | #14

   John, I 100% agree with all of your points.

   Earlier this year I had a 3/4" Maple prefinished floor installed on a remodel I was doing and from now on will always check the floors for level before hand. In this case the floors were out as much as 1" and the installer was new to the area coming from Las Vegus for this job to So Cal. The manufacturer recomended to glue the floor down to the plywood sub floor. I would have liked to see the floor nailed, but I was not installing this floor myself. Being maple it would have been hard to make the floor match the sub floor. in some areas were the floor was soft under the foot I shot in some minimul expanding foam and this accually worked well to add support. I may not recommend this in all applications but here it worked.

8. 
   rpholland | Nov 24, 2007 03:39am | #13

   Last year I installed some pre-finished engineered Oak wood flooring in a family room / kitchen addition/ remodel. The flooring I used was made by Lauzon, a very good quality 3 1/4" wide, 1/2" thick plank with micro-beveled edges. I had some low spot of about 1/4" - 3/8" in 8' in the existing part of the house. I used a combination of 3/32" roll cork and 30 lb. roofing paper to fill the low spots. Was not trying to get it perfect, but got it to within 1/8" in 6' Once the flooring was down you will never see an 1/8" dip in 6'. Check out Hoskinghardwood.com They have some good installation information.

   Rob