Replies

1. 
   billyg83440 | Sep 04, 2003 06:10pm | #1

   That's cool.

   I have a surplus patient lift I bought that I plan to build an overhead pin router with someday. But nothing this elaborate. Maybe I need to increase the complexity of my design.<G>

   Way way out of my price range. $1095 + $260 s&h = $1355. Ouch. But, a quick adding of material costs and I can see why. I design this type of thing for welding equipment from time to time. It'd cost us more in shop time expenses to build this then to buy it. Custom things are expensive.

   If you have access to some basic machine tools, this could be built as a homemade job, but it'd take a fair amount of time. All the linear guide and bearing components are readily available at McMaster.com. I'd build it with some polished shafting and some frelon guide bearings. 1.25" shafting about $20/ft. 1.25" frelon bearings $43 ea. Acme guide screw about $80 + $40 for a couple drive nuts.

   You get the idea. Now, I like to find old equipment or surplus stuff. Sometimes you can buy these things for very very cheap. If you can do that, and are good at welding and machining you could build something similar. I'd estimate 60+hours of work building it. Plus, I'd spend 10-15 hours just designing it. Plus 3-4 hours, probably 10-15 hours if you've never done it before, finding and ordering components. More time if you're hunting surplus equipment. If you're paying people to manufacture the shaft holders ect. It'd cost you much more then just buying the machine. If you can find the right surplus and do most of the work yourself you could likely build something similar for a couple hundred bucks.

   Anyway, I ramble on. That thing is cool. Thanks for posting the link. Gives me some things to think about for my own future contraption.

1. 
   MatthewSchenker | Sep 04, 2003 06:40pm | #2

   Billy,

   I am not a metalworker, but it sounds like the time and cost of building a machine like this would be greater than buying it. And I probably would not achieve the same tolerance level that this company gets, since I'm sure they've done lots of trial and error already that I would not experience until I actually made mine. From the pictures of their factory, it looks like they have a serious operation and are making a lot of these.

   If this machine could solve my dado, mortise, and tenon needs, as well as angled dadoes and the like, I'd say it is well worth $1,500. Actually, I would probably just get the radial portion, which would make it more like $1,000. I am in the process of transitioning from an amateur to a semi-pro, so I am starting to outfit my shop more. This could be a nice addition!

   I'd still like to hear from people who have owned, used, or seen a demonstration of this machine to comment on specifics.

   Edited 9/4/2003 11:41:35 AM ET by Matthew Schenker

1. 
   theRev | Sep 06, 2003 01:38pm | #6

   Matthew

   Never seen this tool before. But just to play devil's advocate (am I allowed to do that as a rev?), ask yourself just what is you plan on making that would justify an outlay like that. Hobbyists can afford to buy whatever tool they want because the tool doesn't have to pay for its place in the shop. It just has to be useful sometimes or just fun to have around. If you want to make a living at this, you've got to look at the numbers, especially with tools.

   If you want to make the transition towards pro, you need to start thinking like a pro. Asking about this machine on this forum is a good start. But you should weigh other options like router tables, etc which can do the job which really needs to be done without all the extras (possibly, only because only you know what it is you'll be making).

   The reason I'm raising this point is that you could start a thread, which would grow quite long I'm sure, which centered around cool tools we have purchased thinking they would save our shop time only to later find out they collect dust better than making it.

   My suggestion would be to think about if you might be able to make the transition with the tools you have and increase your skill level with them as the means of transitioning. You may find that you don't need a "gee-whiz" tool after all.

   Just an opinion.

   Scott

1. 
   MatthewSchenker | Sep 08, 2003 06:38pm | #7

   Rev,

   You are absolutely right, and I have had my share of buying "gee whiz" products. Some of them have been a lot of fun and really terrific. But what happens with somwe of them is I end up using only a tiny fraction of their abilities. I bought these things with the assumption that once I owned them I would begin to use the functions they are capable of. Over the past five years, I can name several products of this type, many of them costing a pretty penny. Let's just say that I am in a profession that experienced a joy ride through the 1990s. It's kind of like what we say to our children when they go to a restarant and want three different desserts and all those interesting things on the menu, then they can't finish it! We say "Your eyes are bigger than your stomach."

   So, I know what you're talking about. At this point, I feel I have learned a lot about what I really need in my shop, and when I am buying something that will be used for only a portion of its abilities. I have learned to buy a machine with fantastic abilities AFTER I have tried to master that technique without it -- in other words I have learned not to use a new machine as an opportunity to learn a new technique. But even with my newfound insight, I am still interested in discovering novel approaches to a lot of woodshop needs. What this means is that, within reason, I want to explore various tools that will get certain jobs done, done better, and with more enjoyment.

   My woodworking is right now a hybrid of personal and professional. I earn enough from woodworking to justify some experimentation with machines. I still have another career, though it has been harmed by the recent economy. If, and when, I turned completely professional, that formula would change.

1. 
   billyg83440 | Sep 08, 2003 07:17pm | #8

   I wish I could point you to a link, heck I wish I could refind this site, but my bookmark file crashed & I was unable to refind this link.

   Another unique router table I saw once, that cost less then this one (if I remember right). Was geared towards not just precision, but repeatability. It came with gauges to precisely set router bits to the same depth everytime you put them in.

   The router also tilted & raised, again precisely. So you could make a wide variety of moldings and profiles with a few bits. More importantly, you could put bit A back in 3 weeks later. Tip the router (or table I forget) to 30 degrees, raise the bit to .43" route profile 1. Then put in bit B raise the table to .375" and set the angle at 0 degrees and finish it with profile 2. And, this trim would precisely match that you made weeks ago. All you had to do was keep a notebook recording what bits were used and what the settings were.

   Kind of like the wood mill this brought machine shop precision to a woodworking tool.

   Perhaps someone else has seen this and can tell us where to find it.

2. 
   MatthewSchenker | Sep 08, 2003 08:00pm | #9

   Billy,

   That would be an interesting link to check out. If you happen to find it, let me know.

   Thanks!

3. 
   billyg83440 | Sep 08, 2003 11:08pm | #10

   Hey, I just thought to seach for tilting router table.

   Found it first hit. http://www.woodshopdemos.com/cfw1.htm

   Now, this is just a review. Didn't see anywhere in here that told what it cost or where to buy it. If you find a link to someone who sells this item, please share.

   Oh, I did find a name, phone #, and address @ http://www.thewoodworkingcatalog.com/cl08.html

   CFW ENGINEERING

   P.O. Box 85565

   Tucson, AZ 85745-5565

   tel: 800-633-4065

   Tilting router table

   let us know what you find out when you call them.

   Yet another idea beyound the simple flat router table. Seems like router tables used to be soo simple too.<G>

2. 
   billyg83440 | Sep 04, 2003 06:50pm | #3

   Just finished looking through the entire website.

   This looks like a very well designed, very well engineered, very well built piece of specialty equipment. And, it's reasonably priced. I think it'd be fun to build something similar. But, that's only because I love to build such things, and I have access to a milling machine and other tools. And, I could never justify the cost of one of these for my hobby.<G> But, only if I can come acrost some workable components for cheap.

3. 
   JeffKurtz | Sep 04, 2003 10:29pm | #4

   Seems like a lot of money, but I have to confess I've drooled over this one for some time.
   http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G9959

   Even more $$$, but seems like it could do a whole lot.

   Jeff

1. 
   billyg83440 | Sep 05, 2003 06:19pm | #5

   I'd never noticed that in the grizzly catalog before. Cool.

   A home milling machine. Looks like a pretty good deal for $2K delivered. Asuming it's good quality. If you figure in the cost of a router, this is only about $800 more then the router head. Sure would be nice to have the ability to do some milling on home projects. Depends what the original poster wants to do. If you want to make some curved moldings and window frames, the first set-up would be superior.

   Either of these two choice look to be reasonable deals. Both are unfortunately way out of my price range, but if you've ever paid a machine shop to make a few simple brackets for you with some milled slots you know how expensive it is to shop these things out.