Replies

1. 
   RLMillard | Apr 16, 2002 02:36pm | #1

   I bought one of their cabinetmaker scraper planes when they first came out; this is a different tool. It was a thing of beauty, but that’s all it was. I sold that dud on Ebay, luckily for only $10 less than I paid for it. A friend of mine reports nearly the same story with the type plane you are talking about; he too sold his on Ebay. I had tried to make a scraper plane myself, from wood and a piece of tool steel, the results were disappointing, so that’s why I ordered the Lie-Nielsen, which ended up not performing any better. My guess is that the blade on both the Lie-Nielsen and mine were too thick. A scraper needs to flex in order to work properly. I bought a $80 Kunz No. 112 Scraper plane that works far better than the Lie-Nielsen I had. I’m not saying that Lie- Nielsen tools are all like this, I have a No. 4 ½ bench plane, low angle block plane, and a dovetail saw from them that are outstanding tools.

    I’ve had better success treating the edge like a hand scraper, this is to say no bevel. It does not take as an aggressive a cut, but the tendency to chatter is diminished, and you get two edges to work with before it’s back to the sharpening station. You have to arrive at the blade angle by trial and error for each new edge, since you roll the burr different each time. You can try the blade out holding it in your hands like a hand scraper to get an idea of what angle you should fix the blade at.

2. 
   Danford_C_ | Apr 16, 2002 06:33pm | #2

   Bob,

   I don't have experience with the L-N #112 but, I do with the Stanley #112, which the L-N is patterned after...

   First, scraper planes, cabinet scrapers, and card scrapers are completely different.  IMO, sraper planes and cabinet scraper are much easier to use and give superior results, the #112 being at the "top" of the list.

   Chattering will result from either too deep of cut and or dull blade.  The #112's depth of cut is further fine tuned by setting the pitch.  I find that a 45° bezel with a small hook of about 10° (away from the bezel) works best for me.

   Dano

   "Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
1. 
   Jimma | Apr 16, 2002 11:53pm | #3

   I agree, Dano. The LN is a great tool, but takes practice and "playing" with to get it to perform well. Too big a bite is the likely the cause of the "problem". I also have the Kunz version and bought the LN to replace it -- too light, thin blade. When greater feel is needed, I go back to the card type, but the LN is better for large surfaces. My suggestion is a phone call to LN and ask for Tom. He's the man.

3. 
   GregB126 | Apr 17, 2002 08:45am | #4

   Bob,

   I hope you don't mind me replying to your question, as I don't own a 112.  After reading it, though, I trotted to my bedside table and turned to a new furniture making techniques book I just received two weeks ago.  There is a chapter devoted to your question exactly.  There is an acknowledgement of the L-N instructions as to the 60 degree angle and no burnished hook, but indicates a bit of chatter may be experienced using that configuration.  At 45 degrees and a burnished hook, the 112 worked beautifully.  There are instructions and photos/illustrations showing sharpening techniques and hook burnishing.

   The book is volume 2 of David Charlesworth's Furniture Making Techniques.  I hesitated to reply to your question at all, tonight, because I've mentioned this teacher and his books in other threads concerning hand tool sharpening and use, and I fear I'll soon be accused of being either a sales rep. or just a broken record!  The former is certainly not true.  I just stumbled on his books (via a FWW review of volume 1 by Mario Rodriguez) and have been extremely pleased with the instruction in them.  The author has operated a school in the west of England since 1979 or so, where the students learn techniques necessary for exhibition quality furniture making.  He also writes for Furniture and Cabinetmaking magazine, published over there.  (I've been so impressed that I now subscribe to it, as well as our own FWW.)  His books are largely taken from those articles.   If you look at the Lie-Nielsen home page, you'll see his volume 2 shown there. 

   Dano, with whom I became friends here, and I tossed around some bench plane sharpening techniques, as well as one for edge jointing with a slightly crowned blade.  So he has heard me mention this teacher before.  Since my own hand tool proficiency and confidence has improved dramatically after reading his books, I feel confident in recommending the chapter in volume 2 as instructive on your question.  Again, I'm not trying to sell anything, but I do most sincerely endorse his instructions without reservation.

4. 
   oxmach | Apr 19, 2002 08:51pm | #5

   I've had the LN 112 for a couple of years now and quite like it.  I'll admit it took a lot of trial and error to come up with the right setting, but once set, it has performed well.  Although the instructions suggest going without a burr at first, I was not successful until I burnished one. 

   As most will agree, a sharp blade is critical, and I read a tip a while ago that suggested using the body of the 112 as a jig.  You simply turn the blade around in the holder the bezel faces the front.  Place the front (tote end) on your bench and the blade on your stone.  Lift the back (handle) up and slide the blade down until you match the approximate angle of the bezel.  Fine tuning is accomplished by turning the adjustment nuts, you can even put a micro bevel on it.  Once set the front runs back and forth on your bench while the blade runs on the stone.  I like the scary sharp method which uses glass and micro grain sandpaper.  The 112 slides around on the lapping glass and the blade on the paper.I did read a great tip for a sharpening jig, which I'll attempt to describe.

   Greg

5. 
   Trees2dust | Apr 20, 2002 05:26am | #6

   Hi All,

   I find this thread very interesting, because I just bought an old Stanley 112 yesterday.  I haven't used it yet, but I have its smaller cousin, the Stanley, #12, which has the same blade and same adjustment mechanism but shorter sole and handles on the sides.  I use a 45 degree bevel with a burr on the #12, and it works beautifully.  The angle adjustment feature on the #12 and #112 is a luxury compared to the fixed-angle Stanley #80, the tool that got me started on this whole scraping thing.  To get the #80 to work properly, I followed Kelly Mehler's instructions in his article Souped-Up Scraper (FWW 1-89), where he instructs you to hone the blade to a 45 degree bevel, then burnish, starting at 45 and working down to 15 degrees.  The #80, which cost less than $20, worked so well that it encouraged me to buy the #12 when I had to surface a large bench top.  I used the same exact sharpening technique on the #12, and plan to do the same on the #112.  So, to give you a little encouragement: if I (and I'm no scraper expert) can make a Volkswagen #80 work, you should be able to do much better with your Cadillac L-N 112.  Enjoy the shavings.

   Rick

6. 
   lwilliams | Apr 20, 2002 07:27am | #7

   I'm not a big fan of scrapers. I had the Kunz version of the #112 and the only thing greener than the twisting warping casting was the paint. I have a Stanley #112, #80 and the #81. My partner has a #12 and Lie Nielsen's #212 which I've used. Lie-Nielsen makes some great tools and Thomas' judgment is among the best of contemporary plane makers. Paul Hamler, another skilled plane maker is one of the most knowledgeable people I've met when it comes to scrapers. His opinion was that scrapers require thin blades and he specifically pointed out that he thought Lie-Nielsen's scrapers were equipped with blades that were way too thick. If you're having a problem with a Lie-Nielsen scraper, you might also try a thinner blade. I've never tried to put a thinner blade in one and don't know how it'd work. My experience with the Lie-Nielsen #212 was pretty good but I'm not really sure if my partner burnished the blade or not.

   At any rate, I feel there's a sleeper out there when it comes to scrapers. Of all the scrapers I've used, by far the best at finish scraping is the old Stanley #81. It has a fixed angle but it's the right angle--what more would you want? It's considerably less expensive than the #112 in the old tool circuit and less than the Lie-Nielsen version of the #112. It has a wonderful rosewood sole that glides on wood and is easy to set because of the flex of the thin blade. Sharpen and burnish the iron and set the #81 on a flat piece of wood. Fold a crisp new dollar bill in half and put it under just the toe of the sole then drop the blade in, tighten it up and you're set to go.

   If you're inclined toward scrapers, you should be able to locate a #81 in good shape and with a good blade for $50-75. My experience is that you can get a better finish by planing than scraping, though.

   
   

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   Edited 4/20/2002 12:29:23 AM ET by Larry Williams