Hi all,
I’m in the process of getting ready to haul some logs from Christiansburg, VA. to Mufreesboro, TN. A relative has been keeping them for me for about a year and half after they were felled. They have been kept outside with no end sealer applied.
What I’m hauling with:
I have a 1/2 ton 97 Chevy Silverado with a 5.7 V8 and a 16ft tandem axle trailer with brakes to do the hauling. Most of the trip will be on the interstate.
What I need to haul:
6 walnut logs from 9 to 14 ft. With approx. diameters ranging from 18 to 30 inches.
I’ve never hauled anything like this, and I just got the trailer. I do have chained tie downs. I guess my question(s) are:
Will my truck handle all of this in one load?
Do I need to approximate the weight and if so what would be a good formula for this? I know moisture content will play a big factor, so hopefully the species and area will give some clues as to a formula variable… I do work at a scale company so I might also be able to borrow a scale to weigh these on a chain while lifting them with a tractor.
Thanks,
Fred
Replies
I moved some logs onto a dumptruck with a chain and a boom on the 3 pnt hitch once. It was really fantastically dangerous. Please be carefull.
Frank
Thanks for the reply. Safety really is my MAJOR concern. I don't want to hurt others or myself while doing this.
You will be packing a fair amount of weight. Go to the http://www.woodweb.com and look in the left hand column of the home page and you will find various calculators which should help you estimate the weight. You will also need to be concerned about the possibility of load shifting in transit (use several chain binders), and also be careful about balancing the load as much as possible.
Ditto on the log weight calculators.
Yours won't be significantly lighter than fresh ones just because they have been down for a year, either.
I haven't calculated the weight, but you are marginal on a double-axle 8000lb trailer....the 30 incher alone weighs in the neighborhood of 3500lbs.
That's a load for my old Pete 10yd dumptruck, if you have any friends with one.
Well, if the average diam was 2' and the average length was 12' Then 6 of those would weigh about 12,000 lbs (6 tons). Figuring 50 lbs/cu ft. Density of water is 62.4 lbs / cu ft.
I've hauled 3 walnut logs before on a tandem wheel trailer that didn't have brakes. Those logs were about 30" diam x 10' long.
With 6 logs, I think the main problem would be with stability of the load.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Just put the logs on, tie 'em down and let 'er buck. I wouldn't worry about a thing if I were you. I do recall that you had mentioned you drive a Chevy. Then you should have no worries. Think of the adventure this will be.....
Blessings
Derek
You might want to make a few trips and not haul them all at the same time- you are talking major poundage.
How about contacting a band saw mill guy that will cut the logs up on site.
It makes me think blow out on the trailer bent axle - burnt up brakes - burnt up Chevy motor- some idiot pulls out in front of you but your logs keep on moving.
Have you ever seen a log truck ? they are big heavy duty mothers.
Something to think about - You know you could buy lots of kiln dried Walnut for what you will spend.
Ron
Who Ever Has The Biggest Pile Of Tools When You Die Wins
Thanks for the input everyone. The real fun is going to come when I get a sawyer out to cut them, man I wish I had a Lucas Mill or a Woodmizer.
Fred
Lucas! (given the choises presented)
Talk to me before you buy something.
I would buy the Lucas Mill if I had my choice.. I got the free video from Bailey's and man I was so impressed. The kerf might be 1/16 of an inch bigger than a band mill.. but who cares??
You can cut 5000 lb/ft a day with that thing, not to mention you can set it up in 10 minutes and cut logs over 8ft in diameter.. that's crazy!!!
Fred
I use an 8.5" X 26' one almost every day. Only way to go for all-around use. Bandsaws good for slabs, but you'll invest a grand in sharpening gear and all your evenings at it...5 blades a day. Quartersaws much easier than anything out there. Perfect beveled cedar siding. Sharpens in 3 minutes. Blades cost 15 bucks to retip and hammer at Shelton Sawworks down the road every 10k BF or until you hit a nail. Blades are 125 bucks and I have 4 of them.
And I definitely wouldn't trim the logs....I can cut around those checks with the Lucas...no big deal. As can I save hardware wood...reverse the powerhead and come at the log from the other side, making a hardware-riddled ridge that can be chainsawed out and even the short boards recovered.
Cutting bark-to-bark rather than making a cant like with a band mill, I get 200pct of scale in smaller logs and 120 - 150 pct of scale in 30-inchers and larger. The bigger the log, the closer to scale. Bandsaws make smaller kerfs, but don't talk to the slab waste in their ads.
But don't be tricked by speed claims....stacked and stickered working alone I do 500-1000 BF a day, depending on what I'm cutting...although I've done a thousand an hour in a single log that big with an offbearer. It remains butt-kicking work.
And I bet you didn't bark those logs when falled....they will likely be full of Lyctus beetle larvae in the sap. Leave all the sapwood in the slash pile.
Am doing an old-growth job in a couple weeks on a client's DF thru an arborist...will post pics....didn't measure, but 50+" and 40k lbs of tree.
Edited 11/21/2003 5:20:05 PM ET by Bob
Walnut tends to end check alot. This is especially the case if the logs were uncoated and in direct sun. I gree with cutting a few rounds off the ends. Alot of this could be firewood. Walnut is not particularly good firewood.
Frank
You are talking in the neighborhood of 10,000 lbs assuming 12 ft long, 24" average diameter and 25% moisture.
Hate to be a wet blanket, however, just makes sure the wood is worth hauling. I had some ash that had lots of character (read worm/carpenter ant holes) after sitting for a couple of months in my backyard before milling making it not worth very much.
Look at each end for problems and, if you are not sure, I might take a slice off the top to make sure the log is worth hauling.
Jeff
Freddie,
I second Jeff's comment, start sawing rounds off the ends of the logs until you reach solid, unchecked wood. A year on the ground with the ends uncoated may have trashed a good portion of the logs for cabinet wood and there would be no point dragging them back home.
As soon as you reach solid wood immediately, right there in the woods, coat the ends of the logs or new checks will start all over again within hours of the fresh wood being exposed.
John W.
Sounds like a good idea.. I don't want to haul any extra weight that will just be discarded anyway. I have some decent end sealer that I can use too...
Thanks,
Fred
Okay, I got the weight from using the calculator. Thanks for that handy link!!
I was using rough estimates in the earlier post. It prompted me to get precise measurements from my "kin" up in VA. According the measurements and the calculator:
Your estimated cumulative log weight total is:
4633 lbs.
So it doesn't look that bad at all.. at least better than I initially thought.
Thanks again for all the help my fellow woodsmen.
Fred
Freddie, you are in great trouble if you use the 4366 lbs. estimate. From the earlier #s you gave, the SMALLEST POSSIBLE of your six logs would be 18" diameter and 9 ' long. All other logs would be bigger,some much much bigger. The smallest log has a volume of about 16 cu. ft., which at 50#/cu.ft. is 800 lbs. So 6 times the smallest log is more than the number you got for all the logs, including the big ones.
Even if your 30" log is only 9' long, it weighs 2200 lbs. all by itself.
A TRUE STORY
40+ years ago, my mother bought 8000 cobblestones FOB St. Louis levee on the Mississippi river, 45 miles from the spot where she expected her kids to build her a courtyard. At my father's request, I investigated moving them. I took a couple which seemed representative and weighed them, and reported: I can rent a dump truck which carries 12,000 lbs per trip. The stones weigh an average 25# each, so we can do it in 17 trips. (Each trip had an associated cost in money and time, which was not inconsequential.) Dad started figuring, and said : The cobblestones may not weigh that much. If we figure they only weigh 20# each, we can do them all in 13 trips! At that point my brother observed, "Why don't we figure they weigh one pound each, and then we can do them all in one trip?"
Do we have to discuss the point of this story?
Edited 11/21/2003 7:03:35 PM ET by rob
I'd run those weight numbers again, Freddie. Don't sound right.
And one thing I forgot to mention about the Lucas Vs Bandmills:
Slower for any swing-blade mill to cut wide boards w/o a wasteful slabbing attachment. Mine cuts 8 1/2 X 8 1/2 on one pass....to get 17", I have to reverse the powerhead and cut from the opposite direction. With two guys it's no big deal. Alone I use a tackle and an engine crane...but it's a pain in the butt, the boards aren't near as nice as the single-cut boards...and I find myself talking folks into 1 X 9's when they want 1 X 10's.
Band mills are better in that regard.
Rob,
Great story, I printed it out to save. I've been in situations where there was a lot of wishful thinking going on, it would have been a good story to tell.
A similar story, from my father who grew up in Vermont, along the same lines:
A skinflint Vermont farmer gets an idea how he can save on feed for his draft horse. He starts cutting back on the grain ration every week, just a little bit at a time, so the horse won't notice it. Now this goes on for a year or so and the farmer's feeling pretty good about his plan, he's almost down to no feed at all, when the damn horse just up and died.
John W.
Edited 11/22/2003 5:43:42 PM ET by JohnW
Thanks, John, I'm glad someone appreciated it. The rest of the story is we hauled them out and dumped them in a pile about 50 m behind the house, just below the dedicated tomato garden. Then Mother told us where she wanted the courtyard. It was just at the end of the long sloping drive which ran in front of the house, where there presently was a graveled circular parking area for about 10-12 vehicles with a 12" power pole in the middle. Our farmhouse was 40 mi from St. Louis, the last 13 miles of road being 8 mi of 2 lane twisty blacktop and 5 mi of even more curvy oiled dirt with a 45 mph speed limit. You entered the d'way tangent to the start of a long curve and would disappear from sight from a car > 1/4 mi behind. The usual nighttime arrival for the kids was approach at 80 mph, brake hard, onto the d'way, brake harder, kill the lights, drift around the pole using throttle and parking brake, and slide in behind the house. 15-20 sec later, the Highway Patrol car who"d been chasing us for 10 mi or so would whip around the curve and head for New Melle on a fruitless chase. We had the advantage because we'd driven the same stretch about 100x more than the HP.
When we discovered Mother wanted to cobblestone the parking area, us kids realized the slick cobblestones (heavy dew in that locale) would put us into the ditch or the powerpole, so we refused to build the courtyard. The stones are still there, and after 40 years of rain/freeze/thaw half are now below ground and there are 6" trees growing out of the rest.
Edited 11/23/2003 3:30:25 PM ET by rob
Multiply your figure by 3 and you'll be pretty close.
Even if the trailer had 3000 lb axles, you'll still have twice the rated load on. Think of the liability if you did have an accident. Running with an overloaded trailer is a ticketable offense. Ain't worth it. Make two trips, or get it slab cut first and throw away all the bad stuff.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Your 1/2 ton truck is not a good candidate for this adventure. I'm guessing your trailer weighs 2,000 or more to begin with. Its not so much that the truck can't pull the load, but the suspension is too light to keep it stable in an emergency maneuver. You've got a lot of good advice in these posts...... Renting a truck might be the way to go.
Freddie,
Check the weight carefully. One of the most important considerations when towing something is stopping (quickly). Its easy to get the load moving because you can do it slowly but when you need to stop its going to be pretty scary to hit the brakes and have the wheels lock up as you slide along the pavement being pushed along by your load. This is even more important if the pavement is wet or you are going downhill.
I recently rented a tractor and trailer do do some work at my house. I towed it home easily with my Tundra and even boasted about how well it towed the load. On the return to the rental agency it was raining, as I approached an intersection, the light turned yellow and I attempted to stop. The wheels stopped but the truck and trailer didn't even slow down. I was lucky that the other drivers didn't pull out but just watched as I slid through that intersection. The rest of the trip was considerably slower and I was really glad when I unhitched that load!
Just be sure you know what it all weighs. The trailer counts in the tow load too!
good luck. Hugh
i know in my state, truck tags are broken up into weight loads. 6 12 18 24 k/lbs and if you pull over your allowed weight there is a chance for a fine.
Also trailers have weight limits on the axles, and even tires are rated for certain weight limits.
Grease you axles, check your trailer before hauling this in one load.
Good discussion y'all!
Since I run a bandmill, saw Walnut regularly and move large logs with a trailer behind my 1/2 ton truck, I've a few things to offer here, Fred.
You have way to many logs and too much weight to haul with your truck at highway speeds. You'd be much better off having the logs sawn where they are and hauling the lumber home and leaving the waste behind.
With Walnut, you have very little to worry about regarding degrade from them sitting as long as they have--the heartwood will all be fine still and I doubt the end checks will run much more than 6" deep. The sapwood may have beetles in it but it's waste anyhow. Clean cut the ends of the logs and seal 'em with Anchorseal IMMEDIATELY before you saw them.
I agree that Lucas mills are great for breaking down big logs and in particular cutting quartersawn out of the late clear growth of big logs but what you want out of Walnut is the flattest, widest possible slabs. From the logs that you described, a bandmill will produce the most desireable lumber with the least waste.
...and I agree that bandmills cut slabs much better.
Have access to one of those, too. (Insert wink here).
I wish I had access to a Lucas--there's none to be found in my neck o' the woods!
http://www.sawmill-exchange.com/index.htm
Look around for a used one...they get cheaper every year.
Hello if you want to be sure there ,you can call and ask for any names of people who have bought the Lucas mill from Balies. I did and got four people who are in my general area.
I personally would suggest calling, can you think of it all that walnut quarter sawed! it would be worth a mint. the most stable wood possible. I KNOW everyone wants the widest boards possible but for most projects you end up cutting the wood up into smaller units anyhow.
Good luck. C.A.G.
Freddie, looks like you've gotten excellent advise about not trying this with your truck. I used to haul horses on a regular basis, both in the mountains and out on the interstate. Have also towed tractors more than a few times. Don't know if you're old enough to remember that advertising slogan "Leave the driving to us" but rest assured a big load on a long trailer can take over quickly! and it's not fun.
I've had my brakes go out with 4000# of horse and trailer pushing me down a hill, and also once going through an intersection. Very scary. Worse yet was when the rental people loaded a tractor accessory too far back on the long trailer I was towing. The whole thing got to fishtailing going down a county road 55mpg -- the fact that my truck was a 1-ton was the only thing that kept me from going off the road and into the irrigation ditch, I'm sure.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
As I kinda counseled against it, I shouldn't mention that when the old Pete is tied up, I've used the 4WD diesel F250 to haul 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer once or twice...if I ever lost those trailer brakes, I'da easily been toast. I still recommend bringing the mill to the logs.
Pete and Friends
Ford
Wow, I like that trio. Nice Ford too. Mine was a 1976 F250 with super-heavyduty suspension. Hauled up to 3000# of hay with power and suspension to spare. I sold it shortly after I moved to the island, and I still see it driving around, with my bumper sticker in the back window "Ya ain't worth a thing if you don't country swing." Yeeeeeeehah! [BTW: I wasn't a barrel-racer, rode dressage and combined training until got squished and had to quit]forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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