After waxing and buffing a section of a piano that was refinished with stain and laquer, the finish is still hazy. Today I was repairing the part that holds the sheet music. A rectangulaer piece of wood had chipped off, so I glued it and was staining the little crack/joint. As I wiped off the excess stain, the laquer shined up. I stopped.
Is the stain buffing the laquer? Removing some of it? is this just temporary? the stain has done about an hour ago and the spot is still shiny.
It seems pretty couragous to stain over the already finished piano. Can a coat or two of poly be put over laquer? I was informed on another forum that a light sanding and another couple of coats of thin laquer with a retarder should be applied. I like poly because I can brush or wipe it. I’ve never used laquer let alone spray it on a 100 year old grand piano. Plus the piano is sitting in their living room on the refinished oak floors.
Thanks all for any info on this.
Dave Otto — Otto Construction — PA
Replies
The oil in the stain filled in the scratches(the haze). Needs to be shinier. Go to your local auto body paint store and get some anti swirl compound. (by the way I assume you used fine rubbing compound to polish it in the first place)
Bud
I did a small section with rottenstone. It did nothing. I proceeded cautiously since I didn't want the rottenstone to remove any finish.
Dave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA
Edited 1/15/2004 9:18:29 AM ET by Dave Otto
Rottenstone wont do it. You really need to compond and polish to see if that's the problem.
Bailingmight not be a bad idea. Pretty expensive job to learn on.
Michael R
Don't apply poly. Don't stain over the lacquer. You'll regret it deeply if you do. It costs a ton to refinish a grand piano properly, and I don't think you really want to have to pay for it.
Either do it right, or leave it to someone who knows how. The stakes are just too high.
You've either got a bad polish job, blushing, oil bloom, or some kind of contamination.
Do some spot checks. First, try compounding and polishing a small area with Meguiar's compound and polish. Follow the instructions and clean thoroughly. If it looks good, compound and polish out the whole piano.
If it's shiny but still hazy, spray a little Behlen's or Mohawk blush eraser (wet, but not runny) on a small area and leave it for a few days. If the blush goes away and stays away, then treat the whole area with blush eraser, let dry for a week or so, and polish.
If the haze goes away but comes back, either you still didn't get a good polish, or you have oil bloom or other contamination. I'm not sure how to deal with those, or whether they can be treated at all, but I can find out. The few times I have run into it, I just experimented till it went away, or else re-did the finish. It would help to know what kind of stain and topcoat were used.
Above all, don't make the problem worse by doing somthing ill-advised. Your butt's really hanging out there.
Michael R.
I don't know if the "oil bloom" that WoodWiz mentioned is the problem (and solution) that I described for you a yesterday on the other forum, but it sounds like good words to describe my similar problem.
As I described there, I believe the oil stain hadn't dried sufficiently under the lacquer, and kept working through the lacquer until it finally dried. After a month or two, I was able to remove the streaky (oily) haze with solvent and rewax successfully.
Your use of the stain was basically a solvent that may have removed the immediate oil, but if it matches my experience, the problem will return in hours or days until the underlying layer finally is dry. ________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Thanks again Charlie for the reply. I checked the spot this morning and it was still shiny, but not like it was only a few hours after applying the stain.
I'm leaning towards bailing on this. It was a door or even a coffee table, I be a little more inspired.
Thanks DaveDave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA
Or if the owner is interested, and if my theory is right, if you come back in a few months, use paint thinner or something to remove wax and oil, then repolish, you may be fine. ________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Thanks for the advice. As i told Charlie, I may bail on this and leave it to a company that does refinishing.
I am seeing the homeowner today, I will mention to him about contacting the company (from Mexico) that did this. I agree that finishing a grand piano would be big bucks. The company that did the work was about $7000 less than the local.
I used Minwax wax, some 0000 steel wool and a buffer with no results. I did as you suggested, stopped. Waxing the whole piece would have not done anything except require stripping later on.
One question: have you ever had blushing occur with poly or does it take too long to dry?
Thanks DaveDave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA
Dave,
A piano is just like your 57 chevy in the gagage.
Its laquer is the same stuff. Rub it out with compound,then rub it out with anti swirl then a coat of "not with compound car wax". Its carnuba wax, no abrasives in it.
Tell customer that you WILL NOT guarantee there is enuff finish left in case you rub thru it. Steel wool wouldnt be used on your chevy and not on your panio either.
Good luck!
Bud
>>One question: have you ever had blushing occur with poly or does it take too long to dry
Well, that's one question I can't answer. I haven't used enough of the stuff to tell, and I've never heard of it happening, but I don't know for sure.
Michael r.
Is Laquer your finish of choice? more specifically what type of Laquer?Dave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA
Dave,
I use whatever finish is appropriate to the job, from seedlac to catalyzed urethane.
I seldom refinish antiques. Most of the ones I get are pretty good, and I can usually restore the finish.
I'll use acrylic modified lacquer or CAB lacquer as my low end finish, a good precat as my midline, and DuraVar, Krystal, or ICA catalyzed urethane for commercial work.
I do a lot of glazed finishes and fantasy finishes, so I usually use vinyl sealer on that kind of work, regardless of topcoat.
If I'm doing a partial refinish such as redoing a table top, I'll try to match the finish that's on the rest of the piece.
I don't do "oil" finishes. Can't afford to. A thin build of quality flat lacquer gives the same look and better wear. Takes a lot less time and costs the customer less.
Michael R
I just got back from the piano. I picked up a can of Mohawk Super Blush Retarder. I did two small test spots and the stuff seems to a nice job. the homeowner actually asked me if I applied a gloss finish instead of satin. There are still some fine scratches but it was only in close proximty that I could see them.I informed the owner that we will need to wait a few days to see if the haze returns. The spray did an ok job, but I'm not ready to buy 6 more cans of the stuff and go spraying (not at least until April when it's warmer). I suggested that he contact the refinishing company and find out exactly what was used and how much. he's mentioned laquer twice and told me today after a did the test spots that it was poly. He needs to make a call.
Dave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA
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