Hi all, first time here and i am looking for some suggestions on how to heat my shop. I have an outbuilding with power etc. and have it insulated, but of course during these winter month”s without heat it’s like being in an old barn which is not good for woodworking or running any of my power tools. My floor space is about 288 sq. ft. My thoughts are leaning to some sort of overhead propane heating system {thinking about safty and cost}. A wood stove would be ideal but im concerned about safty and would prefer not to use up any more floor space. Any suggestions would be apprecicated.
Thanks; Isawu
Replies
Isawu -
Personally I don't think your space is large enough for a wood stove. Not only would it occupy precious real estate with just its footprint, you have to be concerned about clearance around it. If you've got power and don't mind filling a propane tank once in a while perhaps one of those through-wall propane heaters would work. But there again, in the limited space you have perhaps you don't have a free spot along a wall where you could install it.
Tough problem in a small work space to be sure. What kind of headroom do you have? Methinks something overhead would work better???
hi, ya i agree with you. the shop is 16x24 / 10ft one side and 12 on the other. Any suggestions on the type of overhead heater or the brand? thanks again DennisS
Isawu
I have a Mr. Heater infrared propane heater setting on top of a 5 gallon propane can. 8000-14000 BTU. I got it at Lowe's a few years ago for $39.95. I just move it to the most empty space each day. More than enough for Houston's claim to winter weather.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
I totally agree that you don't have enough room for a woodstove. My shop is 22' x 22' and the woodstove makes an impression, believe me. And, they aren't totally "ideal" because they have to be fed (my gripe) and wood has to be cut/bought, split and stored. Here (click) is a recent thread on heating that had some excellent info in it. It's in the Old Knots, read-only, but you might be able to find it here at NK (New Knots) also.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I installed a propane hotdawg 3 years ago. I love it. Warms up quickly, easy to install. I ran the vent thru the side wall since it is power vented. I couldn't run natural gas to the shop so I opted for propane tanks. I keep the lowest setting at 50* all winter and it warms up to 68-70 in 5 mins or less. How often it runs depends on the outside temp. My shop has R13 in the walls and R30 in the ceiling, so all in all I keep very comfortable working in the shop. I would recommend the HotDawg to anyone.
Isawu
My overhead radiant tube heater is being delivered tomorrow. http://www.reverberray.com is the website where I found it, and they'll hook you up to your local dealer. My shop is 36 X 45, and a tube heater is a great way to keep it warm. They have different size units for different needs.
Jeff
Jeff, scuze me for not running over to that site and asking you: is it 220V? How high does your ceiling need to be?? I use a woodstove, with a propane tank-top heater for a quick boost at the beginning of the day. The propane has gone off the charts price-wise, so I'm curious about the electric alternatives.
Which model did you buy??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie
No scuze-me necessary!! I live out in the country, but we do have natural gas. However, my new woodshop is exactly 440 feet from my back door, so running a gas line was gonna cost a fortune. I know, I checked into it. So, my unit is run on propane. The unit that I bought is the 2 stage 75K/50K btu unit. The electrical requirement is a standard 115 volt 15 amp dedicated circuit. The unit just plugs in to the wall. My shop has 12 foot ceilings, and is 36' X 45'. The local distributor sold me on the idea of the 2 stage unit, because it will usually burn in the 50K btu mode to "touch up" the temp in the shop. Now, if I open one of the overhead doors, it'll kick into high mode and crank the heat out right away. I'm installing it next week, and I'll post some pics if I don't blow myself up first!! (Just kidding).
The local propane company is delivering a 120 gallon tank when I'm done with the install, and it'll hold about 100 gallons of propane. At $2.40 a gallon local price, it'll cost me about 240 bucks to fill it. According to the calculations of consumption for this unit, one tankfull will last me more than the whole winter.
I was heating with Kerosene, but at $3.09 a gallon these days, I was using 12 gallons a week to run my two heaters (ouch)!! Also, I hate that smell, not to mention all the moisture kerosene puts into the air.
Jeff
If anything, a vented propane heater will be less efficient than an unvented kerosene heater because a certain amount of heat is always lost through the vent. So if you are using the propane unit to maintain the same temperatures for the same time as the kerosene heaters, you will probably be using at least as many, and probably more, gallons of fuel per week of propane as you were of kerosene.
You must be in a very mild climate for a 120 gallon tank of fuel to last for a entire winter heating a shop of your size.
John W.
John
The heater brings fresh air from the outside, heats the radiant tube, and exits the exhaust out the building at the far end. No air from inside the shop is vented. I just had the propane delivered this morning, and ran it for the first time. It took the shop from 55 degrees to 65 degrees in about 15-20 minutes, and shut off for over an hour, before kicking back on in the lower setting (it's a 2 stage unit) for about 5-10 minutes.
I got quotes from two different manufacturers of radiant tube heaters, and both did load calculations on the building, and came up with the same #'s, independently of each other. The local seller of propane also did the same load calculation, and based on those numbers of btu consumption, (or loss, whatever you call it) told me how much fuel I would consume.
Presently, using 2 Kerosene heaters, I was consuming 12-15 gallons per week. At a local price of $3.09 per gallon for kerosene, well, you can do the math. $175 to $200 a month for kerosene was getting obsene. If I use twice as much propane over the course of the winter as they told me, at $2.40 a gallon, I still will spend half as much as what I am presently spending on Kerosene.
Finally, this heater has no open flame, creates no smell or fumes like the Kerosene does, and doesn't emit moisture into my shop like Kerosene does. I also like being able to control the heat with a thermostat so that it's not 45 degrees when I get out there on those real cold Chicago mornings.
Jeff
I have 2 wall mounted electric heaters from W B Marvin (model 7060) in my shop. Definitely overkill having 2 but I can work in a long sleeve shirt in about 45 minutes, and my shop has no insulation. I think they'd be ideal if you wanted to go with electric heat. The output is adjustable and once it gets warmed up you can turned down the output.
http://www.wbmarvin.com
When people 100 years from now see my work, they'll know I cared. --Matt Mulka
Jeff.
Ok. Now I'm getting Nosey. I couldn't help but notice you said "Chicago mornings". Is it actually Chicago or the burbs... I'm just outside the city in Berwyn.
Not to sound too forward but I would love to see this tube heater in action. I get the feeling my garage does not have the clearance for such a device.
Any chance you can give me the names of the contractors you used?
thanks!
Muleboy.
muleboy
I'm up in Crystal Lake, and you need a 12 foot ceiling height to use a radiant tube heater. You might be able to get away with a 10 foot ceiling, but I'd check with the mfg. first. It's been in for a week now, and I absolutely love it. It heats up everything, including the cast iron tools and concrete floor. I've noticed that the concrete floor in my shop and my big tools are all warmer now, and are radiating heat themselves, especially the floor. My heater is not turning on as frequently as it was when I first got it.
As far as the "Contractors" question goes, I do EVERYTHING myself. It took me about 3 hours to install it, including the time to get to HD for some flue tape. I'll post some pics as soon as I take some.
Jeff
Jeff,
It sounds incredible... perhaps in my next shop... I have only 8' to the bottom of the rafters in the garage. the building was put up in the early 50's. My Fiance' wants to build a new house 10 or 15 years from now. Perhaps at that time I will be able to build my dream shop.
I do really appreciate the info. I'm sure that's the way I'll go when the time comes. By that time I have some kids to help me sand and sweep. They can get there first job working for there old man.
Thanks!!
Muleboy.
I HATE those manufacturer web pages that say "Contact your local dealer"! Sell the dang stuff factory direct over the web site! Cut out the middle men and make more profit and save the customers some money at the same time.
I've been wanting Detroit to do that for years.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Mike
I hear you. However, when it comes to HVAC, there are so many small mom and pop contractors out there, that the manufacturer needs to have local distributors all over the country who stock their goods. Without that, they'd never sell anything. Most small contractors rely on the distributor to stock all their goods for them, thus not needing a warehouse or $$$$$ (big bucks) invested in carrying all the different size and style heaters for the many different applications out there. Also, if I need a service part, I won't have to wait 10 days for Detroit to ship it.
Jeff
Ditto.
Hey, share the experiences. I called a local dealer to inquire about the unit you provided via the link. Very interesting. I have a 3 care garage that I need to do something with.
Well, so far so good. It arrived today, as promised, on time. Packaging was excellent, and everything was sent properly (I have all the pieces). I'm gonna install it next week, and then I'll post on it. Lee Grindinger has the exact same unit in his shop, and it works excellent for him. When I was at Montanafest, he gave me the referral. I'm assuming that it will work great.
Jeff
exact same unit
Which unit? Thanks :)
FJ
read my post to forestgirl, so I don't repeat it all. Thanks.
Jeff
Thank you! :)
Your right it is getting cold. I have a 2 car garage shop. I have insulated it and use a propane bottle with heater on top. This brings the temp up to a working level (mind you it is not warm). I would think that would work for your shop size. With the propane bottle set up I can move it around so it is near where I am working. I usually go through a bottle every couple to three weeks. So the cost to heat my shop is somewhere around $15-$20 a month.
The following photo shows the heater I use for my shop which is 28x40 with 9 foot ceilings. It's hanging from the ceiling on the right side. Works very well and is inexpensive to operate. It is electric 220V. I ordered through my local Lumber Co when I built my shop. Thought I would only use it temporarly but turn out to be such a good value that I never replaced it.
Garry
View Image
http://www.superwoodworks.com
Garry, I'm really interested in the heater you use. My shop is my garage 25X35, and I was looking at gas but would rather have electric. If you ever have any reason to get close to that unit, I for one would love to know the particulars.
Joe
I'v heard that they can be purchased at Northern Hydrolics.It is a 220V with a fan and a thermostat. The thermostat only has numbers on the dial and mine is set on # 2 most of the time unless I am finishing, then I turn it up to # 3. The dial goes to 1o I believe. If I turn it up o 4 it is way too hot. I know it would do you a good job if it will heat my building.
If you have any particular questions, feel free to ask,
Garryhttp://www.superwoodworks.com
Thank you for the info. We have a Northern nearby.
Joe
I heat my shop, which is an attached garage 32X16 with a Natural Gas Furnace. I only turn it on when I'm going out there - gas costs are high.
I use natural gas to heat my house, our cost have sored the past couple of years also.
I have to heat my shop in the winter because of all of the projects and need to try to keep the wood as a constant moisture content as possible.
Garryhttp://www.superwoodworks.com
Factor -Yer no better off with propane - it's getting dear as well. Oil is high; we still have pretty good electrical rates here in the Northwest but that's probably gonna change as well. Wood, in my area is about the cheapest since one can usually find quite a bit for free. But without an EPA certified stove you're faced with burn bans when we get temperature inversions like we're having at the moment - too much particulate matter gets in the air contributing to smog and air pollution. There's a lot of sweat equity goes into heating with wood!There just isn't an easy, cheap answer anymore. Guess I'll move to Phoenix!
Installed the 17k BTU unit from Northern 2 weeks ago. Sealed most of the cracks in the garage. It takes about an hour to raise the temp to comfortable which works out just right because it takes about the same time for me work out my kinks in the AM!
Joe
Glad to hear it works for you Joe.
Garryhttp://www.superwoodworks.com
The electric unit heater in Garry's shop looks a lot like a Dayton. Here is a website with a selection of heaters; Daytons are decent, as are Qmarks and Berkos. Depending on the size, they typically require a 240 volt, 30 amp circuit.
http://www.heater-home.com/category/garage.aspx
Thanks, Stuart
Joe
Nice setup Garry. I am looking to install a very similar unit because running NG out to my detached garage would be a little costly. I figure with the money I will save I can pay for a couple of years worth of electric bills. My question to you is do you leave the heater on even when you are not in the shop? I would be interested in keeping it running at say 50 degrees all winter.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours,
Wolfman
Hey Wolfman keep it on, I never shut mine off when I start up the heat in the fall. It's much better to keep the heat on than try to start from scratch each time you want to work. It is also better for your equipment and your wood. My total electric bill for the year was less than 600.00 dollars last year ( I only pay once year) and this included the electric for the hear and the pump that is used to water my wifes gardens.
Garryhttp://www.superwoodworks.com
My shop is about 26x22 with 9' ceilings. When I moved in to the house we ran a gas line and I installed a dayton unit heater, 30K btu. I bought it from grainger for about $500. It keeps me as warm as I want, usually it is set to about 50 to keep it warm, and takes about 10 minustes to bring the temp up to 60.
Thanks Garry, sounds like the way I am going to go.
Wolfman
My workshop isn't a windfall project where unlimited money is poured... It's taken me a long while to finally get it to a place I can work in. An example is the "Heating and Cooling".... But you can have one just as easily..... When our home's 15 year old HVAC system was still working , but began to get twitchy, in the companies that came for bids on a replacement new system, I always asked them this question:
What would you charge to move the old system, a Lennox 2 speed Air Conditioning and the Propane Pulse Heat model into my workshop if I build the closet it goes in and do the electrical for the compressor?
The Trane company that got the new home unit bid put the old system in, ran two basic steel ducts, and charged the air conditioning system with Freon for only $200.... It's by these methods. along with a lot of work, that I've plowed through a thin woodworking budget and managed to get the workshop.... You can do the same things by checking with your local HVAC dealers to see if they will install older takeout systems. The Lennox Pulse Heat System has a Lifetime Warranty, so I figure it should last in the workshop. It's been in there since it was installed in the summer of 2000, and warms a 30' X 40' area.
Heating and cooling is only as good as your insulation. Taking time to recycle commerical building's takeouts of their 1-1/2" thick, 4' by 8' sheets of foam for "FREE" really helped....be on the lookout for those commerical jobs...
I use some 3-speed ceiling fans that are reversible to help move the air...and in the Winter, run one of them in the lowest speed and in reverse to keep the warm air off the ceiling. I found 4 of them, new and still in the box at a flea market for $35 each. I sold two for a profit, making the ones I kept cost $10 apiece. By the way, I've always loved WWII aircraft....
You can do what I've done, too. BilljustBill
Edited 12/11/2005 12:05 pm ET by BilljustBill
I have been using an electric oil filled heater and using a small fan to move the warm air around in my 16x24 shop, but I am going to install a propane furnace out of a recreational travel trailer. The unit will be installed on the outside of the shop, and will duct the warm air into the shop from the fan in the furnace unit. New they are about $500.00, but you can find them in RV wrecking yards in good used condition.
A couple of things that would be good to know, is what part of the country you live in, and what is the R-value of the insulation of the walls, and ceiling. In my area, New England, in a well insulated shop, its about 35 BTU's per square foot per hour of space. Depending on where you live, it could be more or less. Electricity, being the most expensive form of heat followed by LPG, then on down the line ending with coal. My self, I just had an addition added to our home, 24' x 36'. My shop area is expandible from 13 x 24' (wood, with a crawl space) to 24 x 24' ( concrete, the wife's parking area). The concrete parking area is insulated under the concrete followed by radiant heat tubes. I am playing it close, but I think I can keep the temperature above freezing, when the outdoor temp is around 10 degrees. I am not sure where I am going to go to supplement the garage heat. I have just bought a used pot-bellied stove, it will burn both wood and coal. But I may need something more than that to keep the garage/shop from going down below 32 degrees on those real cold nights.
Good luck, Pop
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