Friends,
The approach to chip carving that was popularized by Wayne Barton is fun, but it is very limiting, because it uses a knife. So virtually all of it is done on basswood, which is not a good furniture wood. When I look at photos of the old chip carving done in Germany, Norway, Sweded, Switzerland, etc, one sees it done on massive outdoor beams, in churches, on buildings, and on furniture. It was done on hardwood, and the chips are quite deep, which means that chisels and mallets were used, not tiny knives.
Does anyone know of any books or other resources on “heavy duty” chip carving? It doesn’t matter if the book is in German. I can get through that. Even if it is in Norwegian or Swedish, I can probably learn a good deal from the photos, and I can get help with translation of the needed portions.
If any of you have experience with this old form of carving, I’d like to exchange a few emails with you, and acquire whatever wisdom you would care to share.
Having experience carving in the round and in relief, I was able to make good strides in applying these skills to large chip carving. It isn’t brain surgery. Indeed, all the writing that has been done on large scale “letter carving” is applicable to large scale chip carving. But I am guessing that there are some excellent insights to large scale chip carving that I just haven’t found yet. Also, I would like to get some close up photos of the large scale chip carvings that were done in Europe.
Thank you.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Replies
I have a book you may be interested in, from Switzerland. I have tried to post a scan of it here, but can't get it to work (maybe because it is an apple). I think I can in an email, so send me your address and I'll try to send it.
Pedro
Pedro,
I have sent you a private response using Knots. Let me know if you got it or not.
Thanks,
Mel
Hey Mel
Speeking, in another thread, of reviving old threads . . .
what did you turn up on chip carving and for hardwood. The guy in the post about his prize poplar = "Raw Poplar"
http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/general-discussion/raw-poplar#comment-753377
Hawkeye1963, might want to make something great from it and then chip carve his poplar. Just a thought. When searching you came up so figured I would follow the trend here and revive an old thread.
: )
Roc,
Thanks for sending me a message alerting me to your message. I didn't get an automated notificaton from FWW. I will respond to the guy with the big planks.
Mel
Chip Carving
Hey Mel,
Years ago I took a class by Barton - and you are not limited to using the woods you mentioned. His style showed an easy way to carve any wood with a cut down steak knife. During the time I took the class it seemed sign carvers were going to carving machines and the only hand work was the gilding. It's nice to see the tradition continuing. Hand work never goes out of style.
SA
SA.
you are absolutely right. One is not limited to specific types of woods to do chip carving. I have tried it in lots of types of woods. There is no doubt that chip carving in hard maple goes a little slower and is a bit more tiring than basswood, but it can be done. This thread is VERY OLD. I have since learned a lot and have made chip carving knives based on older books from Europe for the type of chip carving that was done on German, Swiss and Scananavian houses, churches and other buildings. I found a Swiss book which was in German, which covered that topic. I translated it into English and made the knife according to their specifications, and it works well.
Thanks for jumping in. I thought this thread was dead back in about 2007 or so. Glad to see it come back to life.
Mel
Roc,
I see you asked about chip carving in hardwood. I learned a lot since I posted that message back a few years ago. The breakthrough was finding a book written in Switzerland, in German, which covered the making and use of chip carving knives for architectural chip carving -- chip carving in and on homes, churches and other buildings in Switzerland, Germany and Scandanavia. I ordered the book and translated it into English. It took a few months but it was fun. Then I made one of the knives for the big work and tried it out. It requires both hands and a lot of work, but it can be done. Essentially it is done little by little. You make a normal cut and remove the chip, and then you remove a little more, etc etc etc, and the chip becomes bigger and deeper. Once you get the hang of it, it moves right along.
Then I found another book on chip carving which used a specially prepared double bevel skew chisel, and a large mallet. You can use that method, with some practice, to take out some big chips. If you have seen the book by HOW TO CARVE WOOD By Richard Butz, he has a section on the old style of chip carving which preceeded the type promoted by Wayne Barton. Basically Wayne simplified things. He holds the knife at the same angle all the time, whereas the previous method did not. He took most chips out in three cuts, called drei schnitten, whereas the older method often did the same thing but in six cuts, called sech schnitten. My German is a bit rusty, and my spelling may be wrong.
Using the six-cut method, a large skew chisel and a mallet, you can take out some big chips. If you want to learn more about this, get Butz's book and learn about the three cut and the six cut method of removing a chip (an inverted pyramid). If you are interested in learning how to use the skew chisel, let me know, and I will look up the book on that. If you want to learn how to do chip carving on buildings, let me know, and I will send you my English translation of the Swiss book.
I won't hold it against you if you are not interested in this stuff. It is pretty specialized, and there are not many in the entire world who are interested. I spent a lot of time researching the area, and have become knowledgeable in an area which is of use to almost nobody. Do you remember the definition of a specialist and a generalist. A specialist is a person who knows more and more about less and less until he finally knows everything about nothing. A generalist knows less an less about more and more about less and less until finally he knows nothing about everything.
Have fun.
Mel
I got this going again for the poplar wood guy
> I spent a lot of time researching the area, [translated a book from German to English] and have become knowledgeable in [that] area<
Mel, I am impressed ! Good going. You know that sounds like an article for FWW or Fine Homebuilding or both.
Not really my thing but I bet there are people out there that would take the basics and run with it and create something modern.
There are many of us who would just plane enjoy reading the article or even seeing a video in the members FWW-on-line.
Sounds like you are not wasting your retirement only on fast times, fast cars, fast women etc., etc., etc., . . .
wait, that sounds like a good way to spend retirement too . . . well anyway . . .
I spent a lot of time researching the area, and have become knowledgeable in an area which is of use to almost nobody.
Mel,
Is that what Joseph Moxon thought when he wrote the Mechanicks Exercises?
You should write a book so the knowledge isn't lost.
Mike,
Thanks for the compliment. But should I really write a book? The most often used criticism of my postings, which are often three to five paragraphs long, is that I write too much. I am too wordy.
The book I translated from German to English was well over 100 pages. The book on how to use a double bevel chisel for doing "sechschnitten" chip carving is another 100 pages. The info on the medieval "schultermesser" would be another 50 pages. I suppose I could summarize it all down to 50 pages. But what good would that do for the folks who only want to read sound bites, and can't wade through a half dozen paragraphs.
I believe that Wayne Barton was the genius in chip carving. He took the very complex older style, and simplified it and popularized it. If I wrote the book you mentioned, I would be going back in the other direction.
I have found a single chapter which gives a pretty good explanation of the older style of chip carving. It is in Hasluck's book "Manual of Traditional Wood Carving." Richard Butz also shows you how to do a few projects using the old style.
Have fun.
Mel
write your book!
I would read your book Mel. I think it would be more interesting than Wayne's. His is too cut and dry, school teacher read. Yours would have a personality to it. Plus you would make the reader question why they would ever want to chip carve in the first place. hahaha.
Mike.
You are a funny guy. I enjoy chip carving. The reason is that nothing calls for more precision. To make it look as good as Wayne's carvings, you have to carve like a CNC machine - no errors. Everything has to be dead on. It takes as long to lay it out as to carve it. While the layout isn't all that much fun, and the carving is tedious, it is wonderful practice for "real" carving, where is is not as obvious that one must be precise.
Have fun.
Mel
ha just jokin with ya. I figured chip carving would be more mathmatics than woodworking with all the layout work and precise cutting. I got Wayne's books for Christmas. I need to read through them and practice. I looks like fun quiet work I could do at night.
Chip carving thoughts
Hi Mel,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the topic. I enjoy chip carving too and I try to find as many details from the history as I can. I am interested in the material that you mentioned if you can share it.
> It takes as long to lay it out as to carve it.
I found a way to automate the layout part and I “printed” many chip carving practice boards for fellow carvers. I will be glad to send you a board if you share a shipping address (by email?). You may see pictures of the practice boards and my chip carving projects on my website http://readNtry.com/blog/
I used both the old-world-style (6-cut) of chip carving and the modern (3-cut) style. I find the modern style delivers better results but it requires more practice to do it well.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!
Roman
Please can you share your documents
Hello Mel,
I am learning to be a Heritage carpenter in the UK and am trying to expand my knowlegde of traditional carving methods. It would be amazing to get hold of copies of your German to ENglish translation, the info on medieval "schultermesser" and the writing on how to use a double bevel chisel for doing "sechschnitten" chip carving that you mention in the comment above.
Your efforts will keep these skills and traditions alive in a world that desperatley needs to remember the past. It's great what you have done.
I will PM you my email.
Thank you
Joe
It seems as a new member I cant send you a PM, so I will try and share my email
joe underscore crawley at hotmail dot com
English translation of Swiss chip carving book
Good evening, sir.
I happened upon your thread in which you spoke of chip carving in hardwoods and you mentioned this:
Roc 9619 wrote:If you want to learn how to do chip carving on buildings, let me know, and I will send you my English translation of the Swiss book.
I was wondering if your offer might be extended to a new member, such as myself. Might I have a copy of that English translation as well?
I am very good at carving Hindus. They are pretty easy to create.
I know this thread is coming up on 14 years old now, so the likelihood that I’ll get a response is infinitesimally small. But I’ve been scouring the internet for information on this very topic and this is the closest to a viable lead I’ve come. If there is any chance of getting a copy of that translated book, I would be extremely grateful. I’ll also be ordering Butz’s book.
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