I have a Rigid 10″ table saw, it is about seven years old. This is the one with the “Herculift” wheel base system.
When I changed back to my regular blade from a dado set, I couldn’t get the arbor nut to tighten on the arbor shaft. Instead the entire arbor shaft would start to turn with the nut just when it started to tighten. I managed to grab the arbor shaft on the other side of the blade with a pair of channel lock pliers enough to get it fairly tight, but it is not as tight as it would normally be before this happened.
I am still using the saw – is this dangerous? Why is the shaft not holding still when I hold the blade still with a woodblock to tighten it?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Replies
Dear Cow,
Although I can't speak to the Ridgid saw in particular, most "direct drive" (no belt) saws use a two wrench system, maybe some have gotten around to a shaft lock of some type. I would think that saw would use a second wrench of some type.
Best,
John
Naw, it uses a belt. It is the Ridgid TS2424 10" saw. I dug out the owners manual to get the model number - the manual was of no help. I have been taking the arbor nut on and off this saw for 10 years without having to hold the shaft stillwith another wrench (it only came with one wrench), so I don't know why it suddenly decided to slip on me. Maybe I overtightened the dado set and that busted something loose in the shaft mounting mechanism, but it doesn't rattle or make any unusual noise - it seems to be working fine. I am just spooked by it suddenly doing this.
I cranked it over to a 45 degree angle so I could get a better look at the shaft, pulley, belt etc and everything looks in order. sure is weird. Any advice is welcome.
Try taking it off again, if its tight when you go to take it off and has not been slipping during use you are fine. If it's not tight when you take it off check the threads on the arbor and in the nut for damage or foreign material. The nut will want to tighten naturaly as you use the saw so the nut really only has to be snug when you put the blade on.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
Basically, what dgreen said. He beat me to it. The saw I have is of the two-wrench variety, so I don't have direct experience with your problem. But I took a look at the online manual for your saw and I think I understand it. In simplest terms, for the one-wrench/woodblock technique to work, the frictional force between the blade and the arbor on the inboard side of the blade has to be equal to or greater than the frictional forces in the blade collar/arbor nut/arbor thread assembly on the outboard side. There's nothing else to stop the arbor from turning while you're tightening or loosening the nut.That's why the instructions for removing and installing the blade say to make sure that the blade and collars are clean and free of any burrs, and that the hollow side of the collar must be against the blade. I would also apply those clean and free requirements to the arbor nut and its threads and those of the arbor itself, as well as the mating surfaces of the blade.Any chance you got the collar on backwards and you're running out of thread on the arbor? If not, at this point I'd do what dgreen suggested, pull the blade and look for grease or burrs or sawdust in the wrong places. If that all checks out I'd probably try another blade temporarily, just to see if that made a difference.In any case, good luck with it.
Dan
It sounds odd to me that you wouldn't use two wrenches. Before this blade change, how long had it been since you changed the blade?
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
It was about one hour from when I put the dado set on and did my run of a bunch of rabbet cuts to when I went to put the regular balde on.
I meant before you put the dado on.
Though it sounds like you have dust and what not on the flanges.Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Thanks, same deal though. I was swapping blades all week back and forth for different set-ups so neither blade had been on for any extended period of time.
Nope, I never have taken the inside collar off for anything. I am at work now, when I get home I will try all of the suggestions from you all and let you know how I come out.
The info on the nut tightening itself when the saw runs is a great relief, I was a bit concerned about the blade planting itself in my forehead while I was working.
Thanks everyone!
Addressed also to "ALL" -- is there any chance that this problem is related to the arbor problem that affected the early run of one particular model of the Rigid saw??? Can't remember specifically what it was, but it was maybe something about the threads not being right to accept a full dado set, and they ended up replacing the arbors for customers???? Definitely worth checking this out (I think....LOL).
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'm pretty sure that was a different model as I did research that subject in this forum before seeking help. I have never had any problem with my stacked dado set on this saw.
Nope. The arbor issue you're thinking of had to do with the "newer" RIDGID contractor's saw (model# TS3650). The issue with that arbor had to do with some threads that weren't level all the way across the arbor. This resulted in dados without perfectly flat bottoms.
As for this gentleman's arbor issue -- I recently ran into another arbor problem where part of a thin alumimum shim from my dado stack got sucked into the stack when I tightened down the arbor nut (the part of the shim closest to the hole). This somehow resulted in a couple of threads on my arbor getting deformed. I can now only hand-tighten my arbor nut about half way before I have to muscle it home with a couple of wrenches. A pain in the butt because the wrenches always want to slip off of the nuts before I get things fully tightened.
TF Toolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
"This somehow resulted in a couple of threads on my arbor getting deformed." Bummer! Well, sometimes the obvious gets overlooked, so I just threw that whole thing in. Off the mark, though.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Muscle isn't called for when putting on saw blades. You want them snug, more than hand tight, but they should not be overtightened.
The arbor nut would only get half-way across the length of the arbor before it would hang up. That's when I had to "muscle" it. Once past that point, I'm able to just snug it up as usual.TF
Toolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
Somebody suggested to me that I get a small file and "chase" the threads on the arbor to clean them up. I did this last night and it worked great!! I can now get the nut all the way across the arbor and against the blade with just my fingers before have to tighten with a wrench. TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
I borrowed a direct-drive Delta table saw to rip some trim on site. When I tried to change the blade from a combo to a rip blade, the nut would not tighten up. I am guessing there is a minimum width blade that these will accept, and work properly with. If you are trying to reinstall a blade you successfully used prior to the dado set.....pls disregard this message!!
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
I have essentially the same saw and the exact same maddening problem. My saw is a Craftsman but looks exactly like the Ridgid, so they are most likely the same saw.
My problem started when I got a new teflon coated blade. The surface of the blade is so slick that the whole arbor turns when you try to tighten it.
I laughed when you mentioned the channel-lock plier technique, because I have been doing the same thing for years now. (Although I discovered that a pair of vise-grips gives better holding power to allow you to tighten the blade).
If your saw is like mine, the 2 wrench idea isnt an option because the arbor shaft is perfectly round.
I've been considering filing two flat spots on the arbor shaft, in order to put a wrench on the shaft, but obviously I am apprehensive about doing this and throwing it out of balance.
I also wondered about drilling a hole through the arbor, so you could hold it with a pin while you tighten the arbor nut.
I know it sounds crazy, thinking of drilling holes in the arbor shaft, but I am sure you know the frustration level. I usually just curse and reach for the vise-grips, but I will try to motivate myself to come up with a better solution and will let you know what I come up with.
Lyall
Fort Smith, Northwest Territories, Canada
I will put some more thought into this and
Rather than doing something to the arbor that you might regret, why not just scour off the Teflon in the area of the arbor nut? And, keep in mind the nut doesn't need to be tight-tight-tight. Most people over-tighten their table saw blades. But I know the feeling with the Teflon-coated blades, it bugs me too.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Wow! Over a year later and I am still getting help! Thanks all.
I think the teflon blade post might be the key. I had switched to an expensive Freud blade (the red one) with a thinner kerf and that is when the problem started. I have been using the channel locks to tighten it up since and that works, although it is annoying. I admire the bravery of trying to modify the arbor, but I am not going there.
Might be related or not, but here is an interesting tale: About a month ago I was ripping a rather green 2X4. It got about halfway through the blade when the kerf started to close back up and bind the blade. (Note: When I first assembled my saw almost 10 years ago - I removed all the safety garbage around the blade because I couldn't see to cut anything and it was more annoying than safe. That included the splitter which was a weird affair that was poorly designed - so yup, no splitter).
I was in a bad situation - I didn't want to try and back it out for obvious reasons and I certainly didn't want to let go and duck. So I tried to feed it as gradually as I could with the push stick, just when I thought it was going to fly - the blade stopped dead cold in the cut, the saw was still humming along. I quickly reached around with my other hand and hit the kill switch. I don't know if that arbor slipped again or the belt, but I wasn't complaining.
I guess I gotta find a splitter that works. :)
cowen,
It sounds like your having the same problem that I had with an old "8 Atlas tablesaw that I have that was my granddads. After maaaaaaaannnnnnnnyyyyy hours of head scratching and taking the arbor apart and checking the threads I kept having the same problem. Until one day I took the idler washers off the arbor and laid them on the straight top of the tablesaw,this is when I noticed that the idler washers for one were made out of a heavy aluminum and two they both had a slight cup in them and three both the idlers were slightly inset from being tightened a little to much which was causing the blades to slip because the insides of the idlers were touching one another before the blade itself could get completely tight. So I went to local machine shop and had some new idler washers machined so they were the same size and weight, I even had them milled a little thicker and made from steel not aluminum. The new idler washers solved the problem. I was sure to have them milled instead of just using regular washers for the simple fact that if the weight on each side of the blade wasn't the same it could cause the arbor bearings to wear unevenly causing the saw to cut an uneven kerf. This happened roughly 10-15 years ago and knock on wood the old Atlas has given me many years of faithful service.
Sincerely
Jim at Clark Customs
I have the exact same saw that you do. I just went out to the shop to check and I found that if I don't use a flange, and if I am using a thin blade that the threads will bottom out before the blade becomes tight. You must use a flange on both sides of the blade. Don't know if that is your problem but it could be.
Where did you get the extra flange?
Thanks!
There is no extra flange. The saw came with two flanges and a nut. I have , on occasion, dropped the outside one in the sawdust box under my saw and temporarily lost it. I wonder if that is where yours is? The piece I refer to is like a large , thick washer that fits on the shaft between the blade and the nut.
Edited 8/15/2007 4:06 pm ET by wdrite
Too many people think that they are bolting down a battleship. A FIRM PUSH is enough. I susspect a sheared pin.
Richard the fourth
Whats a sheared pin?
Thanks!
Some times shafts are put in with flattend surfaces, or keyed & some time they have a pin through them. If you insist on titteing a blade like you was bolting down your battleship ( excessive force far beyond what is needed) you cab shear the pin. . Has any one romoved the thing & looked at it?
Richard the fourth
Can some body, for the love of the Lawd, please be sure that this thread is permanently recorded in the archives (;).Philip Marcou
Philip, all threads are permanently recorded. The secret is finding them -- remembering the right key word(s) and activating the Advanced Search when it's having a good day! ;-)
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 8/17/2007 11:14 am by forestgirl
I took the blade off and examined it back when it first happened, but I didn't go any further than that. However, I am one of those people that read the accompanying user guides and other materials pretty thoroughly and I would have remembered a pin type of set up in the parts diagram or other literature - I will look again. I do not think this saw has a shear pin on the arbor.
Can anyone recommend an aftermarket splitter for this saw that doesn't get in the way and is easy to install and remove? So you don't have to dig back in the post, this is a Rigid TS2424 10" saw, the one with the "Herculift" wheel base set-up.
Thanks!
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