Help fixing Delta Contractors Table Saw
alanjones
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I had not used my saw for 3 months and when I tried to raise the blade I found I could not turn the wheel to raise it. I went to FWW and found an article on “tuning” and cleaned the worm gear(raises the arbor) with oven cleaner and a wire brush. Using two hands and absolutely all my strength I found I could turn the wheel maybe 2 degrees. I called Delta in Memphis but didn’t get any help. I just don’t believe it’s pitch or sawdust on the gears that is the problem. Would appreciate any help anyone can give. Thank you.
Replies
Take a good look w/ a portable light thru the throatplate and/or dust door... any obstructions? rust? Is the belt correctly aligned?
Not sure of your ww skill/experience, so you're sure you're adjusting the height not the angle of the blade?
and be sure to lube the worm drive and arbor with lithium grease while you're at it...if you still have trouble, unbolt the table from the stand, clean and grease metal to metal points.
Expert since 10 am.
Edited 11/19/2007 5:21 pm ET by jackplane
and be sure to lube the worm drive and arbor with lithium grease while you're at it...if you still have trouble, unbolt the table from the stand, clean and grease metal to metal points
Maybe you know something I don't but, greasing the bottom side of my saw so it act like fly paper for the sawdust fines to stick to is a scary thought to me.
Dry grafite, or plain past wax is what I would use.
This happened to my Delta Tilting Arbor saw... After tearing it apart three times, lubing, re-assembling only to fail at this repair, I finally brought the entire trunnion assembly in to my tool repairman. Fortunately, he is an uncommonly gifted repairman who remains curious about things... so after considering this problem for some time, he discovered what I will now try to relate. Apparently, in the world of machining it is very difficult and expensive to produce a part with a perfectly round hole. Getting back to the Delta, when you turn the wheel to raise and lower the blade, this drives a rod which turns inside a shaft that is situated between the wheel and the gearing mechanism. This shaft is not produced with a perfectly round hole. Instead, it is produced with a hole eccentric in shape. I'm not exactly sure what this means, except that its internal roundness is irregular. When the shaft is installed, it is positioned (clockwise/counterclockwise) in such a way as to find its 'sweet spot' where the rod passing through it turns without binding. Apparently, when I used the wheel to raise and lower the blade I was lazy about fully loosening the locking nut and friction rotated the shaft out of the optimum position. When I got the trunnion back from repair, I etched a line on the outside of the shaft that recorded the 'sweet spot' position. Now I'll know how to repair this myself. And, of course, I'm now very careful to fully loosen the locking knob before raising and lowering the blade. For some reason, there is no documentation from Delta that my repairman or I could find that delineates this. But at least in my case, this is what finally fixed my saw.
Thank you so much for your advice. You probably read the other advice I got and most was not helpful. My problem is either the same or something very similar. I have now managed to remove my after market fence, the extension tables, and the motor and can turn the saw over to see what is going on. When I loosen the locknut on the arbor elevation shaft and then turn the wheel to raise the blade, it works. However, the locknut turns when the shaft rotates and I don't think locknuts are supposed to do that. Something is frozen inside the sleeve and it could be exactly what you described.If you don't mind indulging me for one more round, what/how did your guy fix the thing? New parts and experimentation or what?
To be honest, I'm not sure... It's my vague recollection that he simply disassembled everything, lubed it, and put it back together knowing he'd have to experiment with the eccentric shaft. I know he talked about 'trial and error'. And I know he did not buy new parts. Can you disassemble the trunnion assembly to the point where the shaft can be completely removed? You will have quite an array of parts, so draw pictures, photograph, label as you go. It's been a while since I've dealt with this, so forgive me if this is sketchy. From the sounds of it, though, I think you're on the right track.
P.S. I'm really Yersmay but I am writing from another computer -- I travelled for Thanksgiving. Sorry for any confusion.
Edited 11/22/2007 12:20 pm ET by Sammeb
I appreciate your replying. Thanks for the info..Alan Jones
When I got my used 34-444 it was frozen in the same way. I disassembled it, and found a roll pin sheared off and jammed in the crank. Luckily that was all the damage caused by forcing the stuck crank. The actual problem was the rod locked into the sleeve you mention by corrosion. Soaking in penetrating oil and repeated rinsing out of crud eventually separated the parts, and it has worked beautifully for years since. By the way, that out of round hole is by design: it can be adjusted to remove backlash.It is all pretty easy to take apart, but do not disassemble the tie rods connecting the trunnions to each other. If they are straight, leave them that way. If twisted, they will need to be untwisted or compensated for by shims, a bigger pain than just loosening up the works. (You can tell if this is needed because if you tilt the blade, it won't stay aligned with the miter slot.)The exploded parts diagram in the manual is your best resource for all this, but the books by Mehler (Tablesaw book), White (Care and Repair...), or Duginske (the non-bandsaw one) may also help. The Delta website also has some helpful stuff.
Thanks for your message and advice. This afternoon I had a friend come over who is more mechanically adept and experinced than I. We got the arbor elevation shaft, sleeve and spacers out of the saw, with difficulty. We put the sleeve in a vise and finally hammered the shaft out. Turned out that the sleeve and shaft were just rusted together, but man, it was just a tiny bit of rust. There must be only a 10,000 of an inch difference between the diameters. Polished it with 400 grit paper, lubed it and it works great. I think we both had the exact same problem. Thanks again for your message.
"when you turn the wheel to raise and lower the blade, this drives a rod which turns inside a shaft that is situated between the wheel and the gearing mechanism"
I am having a similar problem with my old Craftsman table saw. I have cleaned and lubed the worm gear mechanism many times without any improvement. I suspect the real point of binding is in the mechanism you described. My problem is I don't know how to disassemble this mechanism to clean it. How did you go about finding the tool repairman?
I can't stand to throw out a tool because it's broken. It just irks me. So I've had other situations when I've had to seek out a repairman. I tried a few in my area and I liked this guy the best. I found my repairman in the phone book and he happened to have his shop very near where I live. Try the phone book, try the internet... if you have a tool rental place in the area, ask them. It's a sure bet they have someone on retainer. It won't take long for you to come up with a few choices. I know it may be daunting to tear apart your own saw, but if you go slowly and label, you'll get through it. It's not the type of tool that goes 'boing' when you open it. (Don't ask me about my attempted repair on my pneumatic framing hammer). Good luck!
lithium grease is s.o.p. for metal to metal contact points under load.
paste wax, while not attracting as much dust, will not last very long.Expert since 10 am.
>> Maybe you know something I don't but, greasing the bottom side of my saw so it act like fly paper for the sawdust fines to stick to is a scary thought to me.Dry graphite, or plain past wax is what I would use.I agree. Paste wax is what most of the table saw gurus recommend and it is what the saw mechanic we used use to use. Paste wax is a excellent low speed, low pressure lubricant and does not attract or hold dust.Howie.........
alan,
You checked that the wheel lock in the center of the hand wheel is loose, right?
Ray
Ray,
Ooooops! I did that once. Laughed so hard at myself I had to sit down.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
I have done that, more than once. Sloooow learner, I guess.
Ray
Could a pin or key be sticking out and catching on the frame?
A few general suggestions:
1. Oven cleaner is sometimes recommended for cleaning saw blades with burnt on pitch. Oven cleaner is uniquely nasty stuff, both to metal and eyes and skin. It was never meant to be used to clean the gears of a saw where it can't be washed off with lots of water.
2. Using "two hands and absolutely all your strength" to turn the handle is a sure fire formula to break your saw and never fixes everything.
I've repaired a lot of machines that had minor problems, that were turned into major problems, by heavy handed attempts at repair. Take your time to figure out what is going on with your saw, they are simple machines, and in most cases the repair is also very simple.
John White, author of "Care and Repair of Shop Machines"
John,
Or, as my Dad used to say, with just a hint of sarcasm, "Don't force it, now! Get a bigger hammer!!"
Ray
Sounds like you could use a good cleaning anyway. I would dismantle it and check the raise/lower gear mechanism for a lodged piece of hard material.
You can lock up a set of gears with next to nothing if that material cannot pass through the gears when operated.
DO NOT try to force it, or you will creat a new set of problems.
Good luck.
RonT
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