Hi all,
I have been renovating my 1889 home for the last four years, and one of the things that I have thus far avoided attacking is the loose banisters at the bottom of our main stairway. I hope someone can help with suggestions, or, even better, the equipment needed for the solution I am proposing.
The problem is that the horizontal stability of the banisters at the bottom of the stairs depends upon the strength of the toe nails at the bottom of the balusters at that point. There are no walls (or other vertical structural elements) nearby to use for horizontal bracing for the banisters, and none of the posts that support the banister extend beyond the surface of any of the stair treads.
Here is the solution that I have proposed: use a section of pipe (3/4″ black pipe will do) to extend from the underside of the banister down through the stair tread, through the subfloor, and be held in place by blocking attached to the floor joists below. I think that this would work well for stability, but I certainly do not want the original turned baluster that is at the center of the bottom of the banisters on each side to be replaced by an ugly piece of pipe! If I could put the piece of pipe inside this baluster, then the issue would be resolved. But here is the challenge in my plan: how do I drill a 1″ hole centered accurately through a 30″ turned baluster that is 3″ in diameter.
I had thought of attaching my right angle drill to a workbench, then feeding the baluster into a long 1″ self-feed bit from each end. The baluster is tapered, so I would need to build a sled to keep the centerline of the piece parallel with the working surface. I still have my doubts about how accurately this could be done, since a slight inaccuracy could cause the holes bored from each end to not line up in the center of the piece.
I figured a large wood lathe would be ideal for this task. If the piece was mounted in the chuck of the lathe, and the end supported by rollers, then the drill bit could be mounted in the tail stock of the lathe, and slowly fed into the piece from the center point of the tail end of the piece. Since the chuck and tailstock on a lathe are guaranteed to be in-line (or at least are supposed to be) this would probably be the best bet to getting it right.
I had also considered cutting the baluster in half, removing stock from the center of the piece with a table saw, router, or other method, and gluing it back together around the pipe. But this would not turn out as well under the best of circumstances, because the saw kerfs would change the shape of the bluster. Besides, this is just not as elegant of a solution.
If anyone has a lathe with a bed that would handle 48” or so of stock and tooling, and lives in the Eastern Massachusetts area, then please let me know.
Thanks,
Mark
Replies
Hello
Why do you need to go all the way through the baluster ? . If you remove the balaster and drill from the bottom up about 6'' to 9'' you could then drill at 90 deg through from the side and use a barrel nut to screw a length of threaded bar into from below,going thro' whatever block or joist is suitable . The balastrade held the handrail happily for approx 100 years before somebody swung around the bottom and broke the glued joint. good luck and Ihope it holds for another 100 years.
regards Teabags
Using epoxy to attach a piece of 3/4" threaded rod into the bottom of your posts would be my choice since you have access from below. It will only be necessary to drill 4"-6" for a more solid attachment then you'll ever need.
Best of luck,
Don
A little confused.....Do mean that the newel post at the bottom of the run of stairs is loose, or that the balusters are loose?The newel posts give the arrangement the majority of its strength.
It sounds like you could carefully run a small test hole from the basement to check for alignment and then bore up into the bottom of the newel post. I would pick a point in the turning (hopefully its square) about 6"-8" up from the bottom of the post and drill a second hole at a right angle to the first large enough to fit a nut into. Then run some all thread up from the basement into the newel making connection. Some blocking between the framing for strength and tighten-up a second nut from down below. Should pull the whole thing tight. Plug the hole in the post to match.
I guess it would end up being a little like a rail to post connection on a bed with bed bolts.
It seems like a pretty bad design to begin with... there are no newel posts! I will post some photos tomorrow to make this clearer.
hello . A photo would be good ,also a 3'' dia. balusted is almost a newel post !
ragards Teabags.
Ok, here goes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/somervillian/The round baluster in the second photo is in the center of the square balusters in the first photo. For convenience sake, I will call the round one the newel post, as suggested by Teabags.Here is the issue:-> Any horizontal force applied to the top of the railing will create a bending motion at the bottom of the newel post which will create tension on the toe nails and/or glue, which have very little strength in that orientation. -> Using a dowel screw, threaded rod with barrel bolt, or other mechanical connection that gives tensile strength through the length of the newel, but doesn't prevent the bending motion, will still transmit the force as compression/tension on bottom of the newel post. The net effect would be compression the wood fibers and tension of the nails/glue, and eventual failure of that joint.-> Using a pipe or rod that prevents bending on the very bottom of the newel post only will transmit the force as torque against the sides of the newel post, and cause it to split along its length.What about this: send a rigid pipe halfway through the bottom half of the newel post, and epoxy it into place to give it enough strength to not split with the twisting force created by horizontal movement at the handrail, then attach to the framing below.Thanks for the suggestions everybody!BTW, yes, Maynard, MA. We will ship you some snow this winter if you like. ;-)Edited 10/9/2005 11:58 am ET by maynardite
Edited 10/9/2005 11:59 am ET by maynardite
I see !!!!!!. The central turned newel is surrounded by the three square balusters,when the handrail is pushed or pulled it makes one of the balasters try and compress in its length and the one on the other side is under tension.
Some possible solutions.Turn three new newels as the original but possibly with smaller top section to blend into bottom of handrail. Replace existing newel and three square balasters with new turned balasters/newels bolted down thro bullnose tread and fixed with flat metal plates up into underside of handrail on the line of handrail scroll (have done this but can't find photos) The 3 larger newels replacing one newel and 3 balasters gives bigger shoulder area and still looks open (visually)
If you retaining paint finish on balustrades you could replace wood balasters with square metal bar with plate on top and bottom to take extra leverage,often used part way up long flights to stiffen the handrail.
Final more drastic measure ; take handrail away to stop people swinging on it.
regards Teabags
PS you could drill dowel holes top and bottom of existing balasters and insert wooden dowels, this would give much greater glue area and be side grain not end grain.
Edited 10/9/2005 1:09 pm ET by teabags
No newel posts......how large in dia. are the balusters? They make these bolts, not sure exactly what they are called, but they have a lag screw on one end and regular threads on the other. I think they are used for hanging plumbing pipe brackets- anyway they come in different lengths and dia.s. Maybe you could use something like that to screw into a few balusters from below and then tighten up with a nut against some blocking in the framing.
Let me know whatever you end up using. Maynard Mass? I'm a former New Englander- we hightailed it to warmer climes. Just couldn't do any more winters.
Paul
If you can get to the under side then drill a 7/16 hole and then screw in a 1/2" threaded rod by locking two nuts together as least 6" deep. remove the nuts and install a large washer follow by a nut and tighten.
I like the suggestion of drilling up the post 7-8in then glueing a rod up the post. I would look and see if I could find an large pitch rod and a tap to match and tap the post. Using epoxy to glue it together. then use the theaded rod to pull it down to the floor. If there were a way of putting a thinner rod out the side into the stair where it won't be seen I would do that to add side strenght when someone swings on the post.
Regards Peter
maynardite
I'm 2 1/2 years into the restoration of my 1946 home. I bought it because of the property (gorgeous, expansive, and lots of hardwood trees!!), and knew I could fix anything in the house. We had the exact same problem for both staircase newel posts. I solved it by removing the post, and centering a tenon (2 " square sticking through the floor up into the post, and 6 x 6 through the floor, and attached SECURELY to the subframe/joists of the floor) in the bottom of the post. I ran it 6" into the bottom of the post, and secured from the side with screws, recessed into holes, capped with plugs. It is very ridgid, and took only a few hours to accomplish.
My son thinks he's Batman, so both bannisters have gotten plenty of use. So far, so good.
Jeff
BTW, I drilled the mortise with a 2" forstner bit, and cleaned it up with a slick.
Edited 10/9/2005 11:17 am ET by JeffHeath
May, been there- done that in a 150 year old house.
However, I used TWO half inch
threaded rods spaced diagonally across the square post bottom and adjacent to the existing round tenon
Used a !/2 " coarse tap and threaded the holes for the 1/2" rods.
The tap is called a 'pulley' tap and is longer than a regular tap No cross bore needed. Below the post, add hardwood blocking and secure to two joists I used angle clips.
Epoxy-ed the rods and used heavy wide washers and hex nuts . That post ain't going anywhere. Steinmetz
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