Replies

1. 
   jackplane | Jun 08, 2005 08:05pm | #1

   Boiled linseed oil cures by giving off heat during this process. It's possible that in a day or two your finish will be dry, but combining blo with polyurethane and thinner will add a glossier sheen but could prematurely skin over the container during this exothermic reaction.

   I'd wipe off with thinner as much finsh as you can.

    In the future I'd apply linseed oil and thinner first; when dry apply polyurethane.

    

1. 
   Peter36 | Jun 08, 2005 08:32pm | #2

   Thanks for the reply. If I wipe it off with thinner, will it effect the previous 2 coats or will it only remove the "stickiness"?

1. 
   jackplane | Jun 08, 2005 10:00pm | #3

   only the sticky layer 

2. 
   Gretchen | Jun 09, 2005 02:43pm | #4

   Don't keep adding the BLO to the mix. It is not going to be absorbed any further and will just sit on the surface and be sticky until it dries.Gretchen

1. 
   Peter36 | Jun 09, 2005 04:33pm | #5

   Well I was thinking that but......................Once again I don't know anything about finishing, doesn't Sam Maloof's recipe call for repeated coats of something like I am making? I am only on my third coat. I left the cabinets outside yesterday and they seem to have dried. Would you only use the varnish now? Thinned varnish?

1. 
   Gretchen | Jun 09, 2005 06:12pm | #6

   Just varnish it now. Actually after taking the advice to wipe it down well with mineral spirits and let it dry.

   Gretchen

   Edited 6/9/2005 11:13 am ET by GRETCHEN

3. 
   twotowers | Jun 12, 2005 09:34pm | #21

   You need to wipe it off - if it is very hard to move try using a buffer and a little Buchers wax. This will allow you to soften and rtemove the top film that is preventing the finish from drying. After you have done this step -wait. BLO in the finish you described takes time to dry. It will be dry enough so you won't leave fingerprints in about a week, and should be dry in a month or so. Jim

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Jun 09, 2005 08:51pm | #7

   There are as many homebrews as there are finishers, I think. Yours started out fine with equal parts of varnish (poly is varnish), BLO and turpentine. You have created Watco but at a lesser cost. This type of finish is called an oil/varnish and is designed to be absorbed into the wood. It is wiped on and then wiped dry after sitting for 20-30 minutes. After a couple of applications, the varnish component has effectively sealed the surface and no more finish will be absorbed. Additonal coats just sit on the surface and the added oil makes for a very soft and sometimes sticky surface.

   BTW, poly is varnish--its just a varnish made with polyurethane resin instead of one of the traditional resins. A spar varnish is a naturally oily finish designed to be soft and flexible so it stays adhered to wooden masts (spars) on sailboats. By using a spar varnish you have effectively added more oil to the mixture.

   Using decreasing amounts of BLO to varnish does not help as you are still using a very oil rich mixture. If you want additional protection, just use your initial brew for two coats then go to a wiped on thinned poly varnish.

   So what you have is a very soft and not very protective finish on you project. I would attempt to remove any gummy material with 3/0 steel wool and mineral spirits. Once you have gotten the gummy stuff off, let everything completely dry for a couple of weeks. Then, you can apply a coat of wiped on thinned varnish and declare victory.

   As to Maloof, he uses a mixture of BLO, Pure Tung Oil and a thinner. He wipes it on and the agressively wipes it off. This leaves very little finish on the surface. He does this some number of times (5-10). He ends up with a rather thin film of finish. Its a fine finish for something that does not need a lot of protection.
   Howie.........

   Edited 6/9/2005 1:55 pm ET by Howie

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/10/2005 11:21 am ET by Howie

1. 
   Peter36 | Jun 10, 2005 12:30am | #8

   So should I skip using the spar varnish [I thought that it is a higher quality varnish] and purchase regular varnish -thin it down 10%? and use that for my final finish?     I have wiped the cabinets down with thinner and they seem ok.  If I use the thinned varnish for my final finish, then is there any benefit to rubbing out the varnish? Paste Wax?   Thanks for the help Howie.            Peter

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Jun 10, 2005 06:29pm | #9

   I would use an interior polyurethane. Interior finishes contein a higher percentage of resin which improves the finish hardness and durability. For instructions about wiping on finish, see my posting in the "Applying Polyurethane" thread above.If you apply the wipe on correctly there is no need to "rubbing out" the finish. Remember, you have a very soft build up of material on your cabinets. Soft finishes do not lend themselves to rubbing out. Before you do anything, you will have to let your finish cure for 3-4 weeks to develope full adhesion and protection. I am not a fan of wax particularly in a kitchen. It contributes to the greasy build up that is bound to occur and makes cleaning up harder. Todays finishes do not benefit in any way from waxing.Howie.........

1. 
   Peter36 | Jun 10, 2005 11:45pm | #11

   Is minwax antique oil, just a thinned down polyurethane? I have some of that. What about brushing on several less thinned coats and then wet sanding , then using a wipe on coat?  Lastly .......why poly over traditional varnish?  Thanks for the advice Howie. Say, what are you doing for the next couple of weekends?              Peter

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Jun 11, 2005 02:16am | #12

   >> Is minwax antique oil, just a thinned down polyurethane? No, its an oil/varnish mixture very much like Watco and Minwax Tung Oil Finsih. It's basicly what you made by mixing equal parts of varnish, BLO and thinner.>> What about brushing on several less thinned coats and then wet sanding , then using a wipe on coat? You are making finishing into a much more complex job than it has to be. Why do you want to wet sand? Wet sanding, if done at all, is for finishing the finish after you have applied it. It is not done between coats. Also, varnish and poly varnish will never be any more glossy than it is right off the brush. Sanding whether wet or dry will only dull the gloss. If that's what you want, just apply a full strength coat of varnish, let it cure for 3-4 weeks and wet sand. But you would be better off to just apply a full strength coat and declare victory as I suggested earlier.>> Lastly .......why poly over traditional varnish? You can use either. Nothing magical about either but standard varnish has a nicer appearence IMO. You have already put so much poly varnish on that it makes no difference now. For your project, you could have applied 4-6 coats of a thinned wiping varnish or poly varnish and been done by now. It would have be real simple and almost impossible to mess up. You are tripping over complexity that is not necessary. Let me suggest that if you are just getting into finish and plan to continue you might find Jeff Jewitt's "Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing" to be a good place to learn the basics and the advanced stuff.Howie.........

2. 
   Peter36 | Jun 11, 2005 06:25am | #13

   Howie, buddy. I am not making finishing into a much more complex job than it needs to be. I am asking questions because I don't know. I do not want to wet sand. I am asking if that is a good way to go. I have made a mistake and I stopped as soon as I knew I did so. I then went to this resource to ask some experts some questions.              Peter

3. 
   nikkiwood | Jun 11, 2005 09:12am | #14

   I don't think you need to get testy with Howie; he has taken the time to write out a collection of very good points. I can't say it any better than he did -- but you're wasting your time by wet sanding between coats of poly (or any other finish for that matter). The purpose of wet sanding is what he said it is -- burnishing the final coat.What is sometimes done is to use wet/dry sandpaper to go over a piece just after you've applied the wipe-on, but before you do your final wipe down. This sanding creates a slurry, which helps some in filling the pores of open-grain woods. But I believe you said you're working with cherry, so I would not see any point in using this technique in your finishing process with this project.********************************************************
   "I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
   -- Herb Caen (1916-1997)

4. 
   Peter36 | Jun 11, 2005 01:01pm | #15

   Don't I need to sand after my second coat and before my last coat? Isn't sanding to level the surface? I wasn't suggesting sanding between coats, I was suggesting leveling the surface after brushing on several coats but before doing a final wipe on last coat, oui?       Peter

5. 
   Gretchen | Jun 11, 2005 03:18pm | #16

   A standard method of a pretty foolproof finish is wipe on 3 coats of 50/50 varnish (poly if you must). The surface needs only to be tack free--not cured/dry. Sand very lightly with 320 sandpaper.  Wipe on 3 more coats. Sand. Wipe on 2 coats. You are done.  Wipe on finish does not require "leveling".Gretchen

6. 
   HowardAcheson | Jun 11, 2005 05:59pm | #17

   Peter, I think you took my remarks a little more seriously than I intended.  Many inexperianced folks approach finishing with much trepidation and much mis-information.  Finishing not that difficult and there are really no unique things that one finishing process has over another.  The key to good finishing is instruction but most important is practise and experiance.   

   The correct way to approach finishing is to first decide what you want the finish to accomplish.  It is impossible to have maximum protection and durability, with top appearence and ease of application.  For kitchen cabinets--if it  were me--I would  want a durable, easily cleaned surface.  Top notch appearence and the easist application are somewhat secondary.  IMO a wiped on interior varnish or interior poly varnish is the way to go.  If however, I was finishing a reproduction antique or high quality furniture item, the finish requirements would be different--not necessarily more difficult, but different.

   So, I'm sorry if I seemed a little short.  I'm happy to help and want your efforts to come out well for you.Howie.........

2. 
   AlbionWood | Jun 10, 2005 07:43pm | #10

   Definitely do not use spar varnish for interior finishes. Spar is a special finish for special uses, where its softness and flexibility are benefits - everywhere else, they are drawbacks.Get after it with the steel wool and mineral spirits, get it all cleaned up and let it cure for a couple of weeks, then topcoat with thinned polyurethane varnish ("wiping varnish").You only rub out the final coat if it's glossier than you want, and you prefer a satin sheen. Howie's right about the wax, it is unnecessary unless that's the look you want."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."  A. Einstein

   http://www.albionworks.net

3. 
   lwj2 | Jun 12, 2005 03:25pm | #19

   Spar varnish is designed to be flexible. Appropriate uses would be (other than spars on a sailboat) would be a door with heavy sun exposure.

   It's rather a poor finish for things otherwise.

   As noted previously, there are as many homebrew finishes as there are finishers.

   I favour a turpentine/tung/raw linseed mix with Japan drier added. So far it's proven effective against most hazards, including glasses with consensate drips.

   YMMV.Leon Jester

1. 
   Gretchen | Jun 12, 2005 07:48pm | #20

   I will just interject that spar varnish has the good quality of being flexible (soft is not really the proper term, to me) and as such, by definition, is not "brittle" and will not chip as easily as poly, for example.  I have used spar varnish 50/50 wipe on for refinishing for many years with good result.  Grandchildren's trikes don't ding the finish, etc.  Just another take on a possible finish.  I believe a recent Fine Woodworking even had it as an article.Gretchen

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jun 13, 2005 09:14pm | #22

   Just me.. Spar Varnish is GREAT.. JUst use several THIN coats... Wax is all you need to keep it lookin good.. Now how do you you get folks to wax them front doors?

2. 
   lwj2 | Jun 13, 2005 11:05pm | #23

   Just me.. Spar Varnish is GREAT.. JUst use several THIN coats... Wax is all you need to keep it lookin good.. Now how do you you get folks to wax them front doors?

   Four coats, sanded in between with a green pad.

   Wax? Nahh, when it starts to go from the sun exposure, I'll sand it down, recoat it with another four coats. Should be good for at least four years.

   If the idiot we bought the house from had done that the doors would look better -- significant damage to the wood from poor care.

   Leon Jester

2. 
   WillGeorge | Jun 11, 2005 08:13pm | #18

   There are as many homebrews as there are finishers, I think. Yours started out fine with equal parts of varnish (poly is varnish), BLO and turpentine. You have created Watco but at a lesser cost. This type of finish is called an oil/varnish and is designed to be absorbed into the wood. It is wiped on and then wiped dry after sitting for 20-30 minutes. After a couple of applications, the varnish component has effectively sealed the surface and no more finish will be absorbed. Additonal coats just sit on the surface and the added oil makes for a very soft and sometimes sticky surface.

    

   THEN I send my stuff to a PRO shop and pay by VISA card....