Hi all, this is my first post here and I hope this will be a great topic for everybody to draw ideas from. I am getting ready to outfit my new shop and am looking for everybody’s best ideas. Any input would be appreciated, in any or all of the following areas – lighting, electrical, compressed air, dust collection, machine placement, work areas, benches, storage of tools and material, etc. This will be my second shop, so I already have some ideas of how I am going to do things differently, and some features that I would like to have. I’ll bet some of the best ideas you might have are not from things you have done but rather things you wish you had done now that you have gotten into the shop and had opportunity to put it through it’s paces. I am trying to keep my list of regrets on this project as short as possible.
Here’s a brief outline of the space and my needs –
The main work area is roughly 30X40 with an additional 10X30 heated space that I plan on locating the mechanicals in(dust collector, large compressor, furnace, etc. It is a walkout basement with a 10′ ceiling, although the headroom will shrink probably 6″ or so when I pour a new slab to level out the floor(floor is stone now as are the walls. The focus of my work is residential kitchen and bath cabinet construction, architectural woodwork, built-in’s, and milling such as stair parts, wainscoting, etc. The equipment I own now/plan to buy includes – 10″ 5HP table saw with a large aftermarket sliding table, 5HP shaper, 8″ jointer, 20″ planer, 20″ drill press, 20″ bandsaw, and my already large collection of hand and power tools which now fill my 14′ enclosed equipment trailer.
Lets hear your best idea, tip, or trick for the shop! Thanks in advance for any input you might have.
Conrad
Replies
I would put a plywood or Oriented strand board (OSB) floor in. You would need pressure treated lumber over your existing floor.A vapor barrier down first.I would insulate and sheetrock ceiling joists for sound.I would install metal stud walls with 7/16" osb screwed on. Your wiring runs thru the holes in the studs.If you put in alot of lighting you may not have to paint the walls.Osb sheathing is economical ($5.00 to $6.00 per sheet) and shelves etc can be screwed to the walls without backing.I would use osb even if I were to sheetrock afterwards.
Good luck with your new shop
Mike
Mike,
OSB on the floor?
Really!?
I'd never dream of putting OSB on the floor of anything - except perhaps a rarely used attic. It's my experience that that stuff doesn't hold up very well under traffic. And man, what a sweeping nightmare!
Have you done this?
jdg
Edited 2/26/2003 9:24:36 AM ET by jdg
I disagree with the OSB on the floor too. One side is too slick and would be dangerous, the other side would be a mess at clean up time. Its a cheap option but IMO would be a mistake.
A wood floor may be nice on the feet but with the equipment you have and the weights involved, I'd stay with concrete and add PEX tubing in the floor for hydronic heating. A simple setup with a water heater would suffice for your situation. Concrete is easier to keep clean, in my opinion. To address the fatigue issue, get some floor mats intended for shop use to place in areas around tools where you'll be standing stationary for any length of time - like the drill press.
Unless your existing floor is way *way* out of level, you shouldn't need more than a 4" slab over the old stone. At the least, I'd put welded wire fabric for reinforcing - better would be #3 (3/8") rebar at 16" oc. For the areas you're talking about you should provide some control joints to minimize shrinkage cracking. The rule of thumb is no more than 20' x 20' 'bays' without some sort of control joint. These can be simply saw cut into the slab a few days after its poured and green enough to cut easily but cured enough not to spall at the edges of the cuts. Don't cut down through the rebar, just an inch deep is all you need. The concrete contractor could also install control joint material to avoid the cutting operation.
If you have the shop all laid out on paper, be sure to get conduit in the slab to the stationary machines out in the middle of the floor to avoid having chords running here and there. I will have my table saw and a few other tools piped in the slab with outlets stubbed up and mounted on Unistrut pedestals at the machine location(s). Also consider leaving a trench in the floor to run your dust collection ducting to these 'island' tools.
A lot depends on your budget, too. I just got the bid for my proposed new shop and talk about sticker shock!
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
CL,
I have nothing to contribute to your design from an experienced viewpoint. However, I did have an interesting conversation a few months ago with a cabinet maker about table saws. He was quite certain Powermatic was a fabulous saw and the way to go....he had had one or years. I asked what he was using now...he said his business had expanded and he had gone to a Northfield. My suspicion is that now that he has people working for him many things need to change from a safety point of view.
After I completed my own shop I built 3 others for guys in the neighborhood. I can offer a few suggestions.
1. I like the plywood over the concrete floor. I put it on my own shop, (3/4" tongue & groove, sturdyboard) its easy to clean, quiet, easy on the feet and tools but more importantly, my tools don't rust like others in the neighborhood who only have the bare concrete floor. I only used pressure treated at the garage door entrances where there was a chance for exposure to moisture.
2. I used the roll up doors, 8 x 8. Saves alot of space overhead. It doesn't cover lights when its opened or hold the dust like an overhead type door. Cost was a bit more but I feel it was worth it. Spring for the chain pull opener too.
3. My own shop has sheetrock on the walls & ceiling, well insulated. I painted it white and get alot of reflected light from it. I used OSB board in my storeroom walls and in 2 other shops and it looks like hell in comparison. If you don't paint it expect it to be dark. Never looks clean because of the roughness and holds dust. I painted the stuff in my storeroom and it sucked up gallons of paint. I guess the advantage of the OSB board is that it goes up fast and is very durable but IMHO it never looks good.
4. I like skylights and windows if that's an option for you. The natural light and ventilation are great.
5. If you can have the roof extend over the garage doors you'll be able to keep the doors open even on rainy days. I sometimes work out under the covered carport. It's also nice to be able to back a truck up under the covered carport.
Good luck on yours, Hugh
I would agree that conduit and a trench will save a lot of grief later. If you know exactly where the machines will stay of course, you could lay pipe. I thought I was really smart to lay 4" plastic in my floor before being poured, but now wish I had gone with 5 or 6" dust collection pipe with longer radius turns etc. 4" with the tight elbow just doesn't do it. Good luck.
It's too late for you, but one way to avoid the tight radius turns is to use two 45 degree fittings instead of 90 degree ones. Even if larger diameter piping is used, by going with the double 45s you can save some tightness in the turns.
John
I'll also point out the difference between vent 90's (for air going up) and sweep 90's (for thicker stuff you want to do down...<G>). Both will fit on the same PVC piping.
Thanks for all the response so far. Please keep the ideas coming. I hadn't really thought about burying the dust collection, but it's definately a good idea. Is PVC kosher for this? There has always been a controversy about PVC and static discharge causing explosions.
Could someone point me in the direction of this thread on wood racks? I don't usually have alot of lumber on hand as we have two 50+ employee mills nearby with everything I need. I do usually have 20 - 40 sheets of plywood around though, and I would like to come up with a rack system that allows me to leaf through the stack and get the one sheet I need without it being a hassle. Also it needs to be easy for me to pull out a sheet and get it to the saw. I am thinking vertical plywood storage is the way to do it, I just don't exactly know in what configuration. I also need to store the big pile of short/narrow pieces of lumber and plywood that I just can't bring myself to throw away.
Edited 2/25/2003 6:14:07 PM ET by CL
You're talking a bunch of plywood there. I don't know where the thread is, but here's a picture of a rack I thought was a great idea from that thread. You could modify it so it stores ply on both sides. A room holding 3-4 of these in different configs would work great, if you have the space.
This looks like a good rack for the cutoffs, but not for storing 20 to 40 sheets of plywood for easy retrieval.
My thinking on that one is a fixed rack with the plywood standing on end. The plywood should be pretty much perpendicular, or else it may warp. This implies to me several "bays" so that you could have 5 to 10 sheets per bay, and if only 1 or 2 are left they still stand pretty much perpendicular to the horizontal. If you go 10 sheets per bay, I'd go something like 10 inches wide on the bay, which give you some wiggle room if 10 full sheets of 3/4" ply are stored there.
John
You're right that plywood retrieval wouldn't be especially easy. The thing I liked about it is that the plywood is supported against a flat surface, and is nearly perpendicular. I would add a folding arm beside the plywood that would keep the sheets from tipping all the way over, but allow you to lean them against it so you could slide out sheet #4 for instance.
20 sheets is a bit much for a movable rack, it'd get too heavy to move. I would build a fixed rack, as you suggest with a slight 10-15° angle to keep the sheets against a flat surface. Thin sheets, 1/8" masonite for instance may require a rack that allows you to lay them on a flat surface. Of course this eats up 4'x8' of floor space, but keeps the thin stuff from warping. Perhaps storing these flat underneath your other sheet storage. Which is doable, but requires a beefy top on your thin sheet storage, because all the other sheets would sit on it.
Heck with it, I drew a sketch. I'd want fewer then 10 sheets per bay though. Pushing nine 3/4" sheets to the side so you can pull out the 10th one you need is too much work for me.
This looks pretty much like what I was envisioning, but I'd make the verticals angled on both sides. That way you could take some of the sheets and flip them from left to right, making it easier to retrive the sheet "at the bottom of the pile". I might also dedicate a bay for a specific size, and if I used lots of 1/4" material that bay could be narrower. If I used lots of thicker material, that bay could be wider. Easy access to any sheet is key.
John
Good idea on angling both sides. I couldn't think of a quick way to do that. It'd eat up some space, but you'd still be able to store a lot of plywood in a 4x8 area.
Properly done, the angles on both sides could have an open inside (like a tent) and this space could be used for cutoffs.
John
John, you're a smart man. When I design my shop, I'll remember to ask you how to put it together.
Something like this sketch?
I'd love to have a shop with this lumber rack. Plus one roll around, like the picture I posted. Plus some wall racks for long dimensional and solid stock.
Of course, I'd like to park my car in the garage too.
Someday, someway, I'll build a shop.
Yep, this looks like what I was envisioning. But you give me way, way too much credit. I'm not really creative ... but can take someone else's thoughts and refine them.
I'm humbled by the extremely creative and truly gifted folks in this "profession" and here on Knots. They've set the bar very high, and I'm continually improving my skills. Maybe someday I'll even learn how to use hand tools.
John
Actually, I think bouncing ideas off each other got us to a decent idea.
That's why I come here as well. The depth of knowledge here is amazing. As is the willingness to help. Even by people who disagree with me on other things. The skill level and the things some people here can make are astounding. I haven't built anything resembling furniture since high school, though I intend to start one of these days.
Mostly my tools get used in home improvement projects. Building some closets right now. Finished one in my daughter's room, just framed in the new closet wall in my bedroom. If it turns out nice maybe I'll borrow the bosses camera and post a picture or two.
And, maybe someday I'll learn how to use tools as well.
Have a good one.
Billy
I am in my forth shop if you count the dirt floor garage at a rented farm, and the laundry room under our cabin in Alaska. I have actually built two real shops and have put in this kind of bin in each. My shop here has two. This one is 4 feet deep and 2 feet wide. You can see that I even have 3 5X9 MDFs in there with the 3/4/ and 1/2. I keep the 1/4 in the other bin and lots of other odds and ends.
I put treated two bys on the floor and put a sheet of ply on top of them to get the sheets up 2 inches making them easier to deal with. Then all I did was frame two 2/4/walls and anchor them to the floor and to the cieling.
I thought at first that the sheets would bow from standing up like that but since I started doing it in 1980 I have not found that they do. They have a certain amount of bow anyway and even the ones from off a horizontal shelf at the lumber yard seem to have it sometimes.
It seems to me the angled bin plans I'm seeing here would just take up too much room that I don't have enough of and I don't think it is nes.
Take a look at this bin and you will see what has worked for me for a long time. A.T.
That looks like something I should do. I have some sheet goods right now that are majorly in the way, but can't figure out where to put them. At least no where they wouldn't be a major pain to get back out of.
Personally, I have no need for a rack like I sketched, well maybe one bay, but without the flat storage underneath.
If you can store ply without a bow problem for long periods upright like that, then I should build one. Have you had any problems with thinner stuff bowing? 1/4 or 1/8" masonite, pegboard, particle board, ect? I need a space laid out to store some ply and a few sheetrock sheets myself.
The idea I came up with was for someone looking to store 20-40 sheets of ply. Doubt I'll ever have that many to worry about.
This is going to sound a little wacky, but I would really covet a table like the following.
Since frame and carcase construction can be a staple in much woodworking, the one thing I would really want to have is a dedicated table for easy assembly of face frames (using pocket screws). Actually, it might be better described as a giant face frame jig. The table would have various 1 x 3 strips hardwood screwed to it at perfect 90 degree angles to serve as guides for aligning and to clamp face frame components during assembly.
"My" table would probably consist of a solid core door (at least 36" wide). Maybe I would laminate it with Formica to make it easy to remove hardened glue. I would have the table set up like a long angled drafting table, with one long side of the door running against a wall (at about 5 feet off the ground) and the other long side supported by legs at about 3 foot off the ground. With this, the table should feel like you could sit on a bar stool and draft on it. To save space, I might even afix it to the wall with hinges so that I could fold it for space when not in use. Of course, if I had a 30x40 shop space, I probably wouldn't really give a damn about space.
The really important detail... I would screw a long hardwood cleat accross the bottom edge of the table. Next, I would screw another vertically to the far left end of the table at exactly 90 degree to the horizontal member. I would do the same on the far right side. There would be a 2 or 3 inch space between the bottom of the vertical cleat and the top of the horizontal cleat to allow flexibility in face frame construction. I would attached two hold down clamps to each of these vertical members to hold the face frame components against the cleats.
By having a really nice flat space with perfectly aligned cleats and hold down clamps, it would be much easier and significantly less time consuming to perfectly and precisely layout, clamp and screw my face frames together. Working with vice grip face frame clamps is just inconvenient and with big frames (like an armoire) awfully awkward.
That is all I would want... that and a PM 66... and a DJ-20... and ....
Good luck on the project.
If that's what you want, then build it.
With a few options, it can become anything you want.
For example: A flat melamine top for drafting ang gluing. A peg
board top with a pick-up box underneath for sanding. A few strips
with 1/2 round holes for pipe clamps.
I could go on and on, but I have used the idea of multiple use
fixtures and tables in my shop for years and years to make up for
the lack of space.
Dream it, build it.
Jeff
Robbie, I like your idea. A possible improvement I have used before in fixtures like this is instead of using a square edged cleat, make your fences out of a piece of t&g flooring. Joint the tongue side for your fence edge. This way, any sawdust or chips that naturally accumulate will fall underneath the tongue and not prevent your workpiece from being perfectly tight to the fence.
John,
I don't know why I have never seen this suggested, but electrical conduit (the grey pvc) is perfect for underground dust collection runs.You can get them in any diameter you might need, but more importantly, they come in two sweep radii, both of which are far greater than anything you can find in DWV. They are also watertight. A friend of mine built and designed a shop with metal pipe under the slab for DC and later found them flooded.
Hi, Probably missing something here but wouldn't "burying" DC piping lead to difficulty if there is a blockage? Maybe some sort of grating over the pipeline but what a bother! Why not stick to overhead or high along the walls? Brian
Great stuff here guys! The plywood rack is perfect. I would never have thought of that, but it really meets all my requirements, most importantly storing the sheets flat, but still easy to pick through.
cl,
Here is a yahoo group that might help http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woodworkingshopsinprogress2
Some good ideas there. I also think that Oneida and Penn industries (both dust collection dealers) have some home shops featured that I got some good ideas from. Lastly dont chinzt on the dust collection.
hope this helps.
You may consider putting in a seperate finishing area. Even a corner with a curtain you can pull around it is good. But, a seperate small room that is well sealed is wonderful. Put filtered air intake from the rest of the shop, with a fan that blows outside. Keeps the fumes down w/o sucking dust in from the rest of the shop.
A wood storage area/room. Drying racks if you use lots of solid wood. Plywood racks if lots of ply or sheet goods. There was a good thread about wood storage racks on here recently. A room that holds 2 or 3 storage racks on casters, plus some storage shelves, would work for me.
A place for a file cabinet, desk, drawing board is useful. Somewhere to organize any papers, plans, and design things.
A phone line is good. A doorbell buzzer so you know if someone visits when you're in the shop. One guy who works alone a lot said he put in an old school bell with 3 or 4 buttons scattered around the shop. If he's ever seriously hurt he'll set it off to get his wife's attention. A tv and cable line. A central stereo system w/ speakers wired around the room. A mop sink for cleanup. A 1/2 or 3/4 bath so you don't track into the house, but clean up before leaving the shop.
Many more outlets then you think you'll need. Put some in the ceiling. Put the wiring in the walls, but in conduit so you can change it around later if you want to. (i.e. change a 110 outlet to a 220 dedicated circuit for a specific machine. Leave a few empty slots in the breaker box. You can surface mount any additional conduit you decide you need later. Don't overload the conduit.
Me, I'd need lots of storage cabinets w/ adj. shelves for all the things I keep up to use for something, sometime, somewhere.
Maybe not what you're looking for, but I's got lots of ideas. Money's I's short of.
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