Got a little bonus at work and want to buy a new machine. It will be either a Shaper, Lathe, or Mortiser.
I don’t a lot of cabinet work and have found that raised panels can be made fairly efficiently on the table saw. I am, however, tired of my flimsy router table and would like something more robust. I also do mortising on the router table, usually with a 1/4″ spiral bit for door frames or face frames. I just wonder how much use for the real estate there is.
I don’t so any turning now because I don’t have a lathe at all. This is something I have always wanted to try, and I suspect is real handy once you want to start building things that are less square. Hard to say whether I would use this alot.
The mortiser would be used to replace the router table for this operation as stated above. Actually do a lot of mortising and if it is bigger than the router table can handle I do it by hand.
Well, if you have an oppinion, I would be interested in hearing it. My budget is $1800.
Thanks
TDF
Replies
Tom,
Get a lathe over at sears and a nice shaper (big boy). The lathe is fantastic and can be feed all kinds of scrap wood. The lathe is about $450 and maybe $150 in hand tools to get started. The balance can be spent on the shaper.
Thanks BG. The Sears lathe however sounds risky. How is the quality? Do you have amodel number? I was considering the OneWay 1234 or the Nova DVR. This would use up 2/3 or more of the budget.
TDF
Tom,
the model number is very long...but they only have one large one..table model. Yes, it probably would be risky for a devotee of turning, but for a beginner its got all the bells and whistles and handles 15" stock. Plus, sears is pretty good at backing up it products.
TOm,
Do not, I REPEAT DO NOT, buy the sears lathe, get the oneway. The sears is way too light for much more than pen turning. Never buy cheap tools, better to do without until you can afford something good. Have had a sears lathe for a long time, and it is a piece of JUNK! Ditto the "Ridgid" knockoff of it available at home depot. Also budget yourself at least 300 bucks for turning tools and a grinding jig. I now own the heavy duty Delta with the Baldor variable speed which I consider the best lathe out there for the money. However this lathe will burn your whole budget with nothing left over for tools. I isn't the big Oneway but it is still a heck of a lathe. Whatever you decide good luck.
Mark
Professor,
I hate Sears, I can't wait for them to go the way of Montgomery Wards.
yet Sears does sell a good lathe!
No not that tube piece of crap, but rather the cast iron base one that has variable speeds, and a head that turns for working on giant stock. list price is about $400 bucks and on sale they cost $299.
I have one and use it with a duplicator (don't buy the sears duplicator, Vega has a nice one but it will cost more than the lathe) to carve out the hundreds of spindales for my timberframe, on the railing I'm doing.
I turn big 6x6 stock without precutting the corners, plenty of power & varible speed so you can use it at whatever speed you need to.
Frenchy,
The lathe I was referring to was the "tube" type. Pehaps I spoke too soon but I still have no use for Sears tools. I just don't have much use for light duty lathes as they usually have far too much vibration, small bearings, light frames etc. I make a lot of cabriole legs both turned and also those with just turned pad feet. This type of off-center turning is capable of walking a light duty lathe right across the floor if it is not bolted down or at least heavily weighted. The other thing is that in my view and many others turning is addicting. As such the turner will soon be wanting to try his hand at large bowls, round table tops etc. and the lightrer lathe will soon be found wanting. If you can afford it, and the gentleman who started this thread gave us his budget, proving that he at least could, then I believe the right decision is to buy the better tool in the first place. That's my nickles worth.
Mark
Hey guys, thanks for all the input and keep it coming. Further contemplation and the good fortune of Christmas has led me closer to the lathe. Given that, I'm tending toward the Oneway 1224 with a bed extension. I agree with a lot of you that the cheaper lathe would be a good start to understand if I have the knack for it or not. However I really like to buy things only once, and given my budget I really would rather get it now while the getting is good. So if you guys (and gals) out there have an opinion about the Oneway midsize lathe verses something else I would really like to here it. Is 1HP big enough? This lathe does not have any outboard turning capability and the headstock cannot be rotated for larger turning. I suppose this could be a major drawback if I wanted to turn bowls. The other lathe that competes in this range is the Delta steel bed lathe although I have not been impressed with Delta machines lately. I could get the Powermatic 3220 for $2500 but thats more than my budget and I would have to negotiate more money from the budget director.
Hmmm......I really don't know.
TDF
Tom,
You mentioned the Delta steel bed lathe in your last post. That is the one I referred to in my first post to you. I bought one a few months ago and I'm extremely pleased with it. It has a Baldor variable speed DC motor which runs silky smooth. The head and tailstock castings are very beefy and work quite smoothly. The headtock is reversible for outboard turning or alternatively you can remove the tailstock and slide the headstock all the way to the tailstock end of the machine. Either way you can do outboardturning. It also has a reversing switch which is nice for sanding or outboard turning. The frame has provisions for bolting it to the floor and also for placing a stout board across the bottom to accept sandbags for extra weight. Another factor that appealed to me is the way in which the bed is constructed. It would be relatively easy for someone who posesses welding skills to make an extension for the bed and bolt it on . Doing so would increase the length between centers considerably enabling one to do columns, porch posts etc. In short this lathe is BUILT. It isn't the big Oneway but it isn't 5 grand either. I'll lay a bet that if you get one you will be very happy with it, I sure am with mine.
Mark
Edited 12/25/2002 10:46:46 PM ET by the professor
Tom,
Just to make your decision a little more difficult...how about used? The link below had Powermatics and Oliver's in the $1100 range....
http://www.woodquip.com
As I said I have no or very little use for Sears.
However it is asking a bit much to jump into a $2000 tool just to find out if you really enjoy working with a lathe. I love quality but hate waste. I've bought too many things that were the "best" only to find I had no real interest or knack (ask me about camera's some time)
I bought the cast iron Sears on a whim and because I thought I could make a few prototype spindles and then decide what I really wanted. I never expected it to hold up as well as it has. Besides I found that I was just about unlimited with this thing. Sure it's a bench top and I needed to bolt down firmly to a very heavy bench, but I started to freehand with it and hours later I had baseball bats of all sizes and types of wood, a half dozen spindles, a pile of wood chips waist deep, and a great big ship eating grin on my face.
The next day I put a piece of 30 inch diameter x 8 inch deep black walnut and carved out a bowl. (had to swivel the head) not art yet but it's fun and maybe next time I won't get so rambunctious right away and look for the design in the wood and work around it rather than just carve away the stock....
Now I will admit that I don't expect this thing to be something my children pass on to their children but it got me going. There is absolutely no way I would ever spend that much money without some real world experiance and practical hands on use.
Now I'll grant you With over 300 spindles for my hand rails to carve. I had a honest use for it from the start. If I had a chance to use the Delta table saw I bought first, I would have never done it. Nothing I've done on it was any better or easier or safer than any other method I've used in the past. I hated that damn thing and wound up giving it away after less than three years!
The other thing is why tie up your capital in one tool? I mean for that money if you select basic models you can have a shop with a good size planer, Jointer,band saw, and shaper! plus a thousand board feet of cherry, black walnut, and maple. (green and rough but you've got the equipment to turn it into finished boards....
It's a matter of priorities. If the reason you work with wood is to make a living then by all means buy the best. The speed you can change the set-ups and repeat exactly what was done in the past is worth it.
If every time you build something, it's for the first time, save your money and get all of the equipment to complete a full shop. Those tools that prove their worth can be upgrade for a very modest amount.
For example. If You buy a $600 grizzley 8" jointer and find it wonderful and ever want to upgrade it the average selling price for a good used one is $450. your experiance will cost you $150.
Buy the same thing in General or other premium jointer and spend $2000. you will wait a long time for someone to give you much over $1500 (if that) your experiance will cost you over $500.
Frenchy,
Some good points well taken. I struggle with both ends of that arguement over and over myself, and I started with very inexpensive tools about 15 years ago and that allowed me to figure out what methods of work suited me and what tools would best perform under those conditions. There is however only one way to turn something and thats on a lathe. So I don't know how I can avoid it. Now there are cheaper but good lathes out there to start with. The Delta or Jet cast iron bed lathe runs about $600. Actually, I believe they make two models now in that price range. So maybe I should buy something like that and put the rest into lumber. That is a good point that I think you were trying to make.
On the other hand I really get a lot of satisfaction out of buying and owning really good machines and am now at the point were I am trying to replace and upgrade everything in the shop from the cheap starter machines that I had to buy 10 years ago. So, I budget for one replacement/addition per year.
Some good points to ponder though.
TDF
Frenchy,
Some good points but Tom does not seem to be a novice woodworker to me, not someone who is trying to figure out if he will enjoy turning. He sounds like someone who wants to learn how to turn(among other things) and I can't imagine how he would not get a lot of enjoyment out of it. That said I recomended the steel bed Delta as a great lathe without spending the price of a Oneway. As you have probably already read in Tom's reply to you he is in the process of upgrading his tools which confirms my thoughts toward him. As someone who has occasionally bought a cheaper tool either out of necessity or just to get by, I realize even more the wisdom of buying the best tool you can afford in most cases. There are exceptions to this, for instance I don't buy 30 dollar shovels for my crew as they will probably break the handle or lose it within the first year. This does not hold true for shop tools though, at least in my case. As I said Tom seems to be more than just an occasional woodworker to me and as such the better tool is justified in my opinion. One thing is for sure, he asked for opinions and has gotten plenty. By the way I would like to some pictures of the staircase you mentioned turning the balusters for or haven't you gotten that far yet? Have a good one.
Mark
too many to go to evan consider starting putting them in place. Actually right now I'm spending all my time putting roof panels in place before the really cold weather hits. the railing is way down the road! I told she who must be obeyed that this was a ten year project, only slightly behind schedule.... ;-)
As far as Delta goes, please don't get me started. They are such a pain that I wound up giving away a three year old Delta contractors saw..
Lotsa good observations here. When it comes to buying starter tools, I have have found that when beginners are set to working with inferior tools they are often frustrated and become discouraged before they reach a level of competence which allows them to admire and apprecite their own work. One needs good tools to learn good techniques.
I once had one of the "tube frame" lathes. While I am not a master turner, I know enough to be able to make one work. I bolted mine to a 2x10 and hung a cast iron radiator underneath to give it weight and stability. I would never ever buy a tool of that quality again and I would discourage any beginer from trying to make do with one. If you do buy a bench lathe, slab a wide diameter log in half with a chain saw to make a bench and bolt the lathe to that.
I recommend looking for used tools. There is almost nothing that you can wear out on a wood lathe. It ought to be good just about forever.
My free advice and worth all it cost.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland
Bee Jay,
Free advice and very well put.
Mark
Frenchy,
Send some pictures of what you do have then. Maybe the reason you are taking so long on the house is because you are too busy playing in the shop. LOL
PS. Or maybe playing on the computer.
Nite now.
Mark
Mark,
I can't work on the house right now, I hurt my arm and have a heck of a time just moving about. But hey! I can hunt and peck with my left one almost as fast as my right!
whatcha want with pictures? the house was posted over at breaktime a while back and that's about it for me and pictures!
Frenchy,
Sorry to hear about your arm. I did see a few pics awile back on breaktime but thought you might be a little further along. Didn't know you got hurt though. Bummer.
Mark
Just overwork, I musta pulled a muscle or sumtin' arms slowly healing, worked today and got another panel up inplace only two left to install. It was nice today, the temp got above freezin' an I was able to work without the usual parka an stuff.
Actually I am a lot further than those pictures, but me and camera's have this relationship... I ruin them and they don't work for me...(or lose them, break them, get 'em stolen., etc.)
Frenchy,
I can identify with you about cameras. I don't lose them but I have a thyroid problem which causes a little bit of a tremor in my left hand. They managed to correct all the other medical problems it caused and minimized the tremor but it is still bad enough that I can't take a decent picture. A couple years ago we visited the "Arch" in St. Louis while on vacation and while we were up in the observation deck my wife handed me the camera (she is afraid of heights even though we were not on an open deck) . We might as well have thrown the film away as all the pictures were blurred. I'm going to get a digital camera with a tripod so I don't have to depend on someone else to take a good picture. Glad your arm is getting better.
mark
Tom,
Perhaps the professor is correct...I've been suffering terribly over the past year and just wasen't aware. I've never turned a pen, usually I turn legs for tables; kitchen and coffee. I start out with 4"-6" stock up to 32" long. The unit only weighs 175lbs. but that excludes the base...which I can go as heavy as I like with.
Obviously, the key to these lathes is the motor. The Sears is probably crap...but it is variable speed. Anyhow, at 1/4 the cost of the competition its a good way to learn the skill. I do wish I had a reversible motor.
May I make a suggestion in regards to a lathe?
Why not go cheap (the delta or jet midi lathe) at first. Use it as a learning machine. With the extension beds, you can turn stuff up to 36" long. My Delta Midi has server me well for my knob turnings. It has paid for itself many times over. It's got it's problems but I've either correctd them or learned to correct for them. I think I now have a much better appreciation for the high dollar stuff and could be a better job of picking one out. I had never turned a thing on a lathe till I got the Delta.
Variable speed would be the first thing I would want in a new lathe. Next would be more chucks, head and tail bearings of various nature, various auxiliary pieces for the bed, and a tail stock that would EXACTLY center on the head stock(and still be easy to slide back and forth).
Could your router table problems be solved by building a more robust table?? My router is imbedded in the end of my 4'x8' rolling work table. Nothing I hate worse than a router table that wobbles or skoots when your trying to push a board through the bit!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
I know of a 2 year old Oneway 1018 with bed extention (extends capacity to 42" between centers) for sale if you are interested. This lathe is a 220V 1 horse power variable speed unit. Perfect for furniture parts.
Bob Elliott
Central Florida Woodturners
I agree with the guy who asked "Why do poor people have to buy their tools twice?" For once, years ago, I bought a "good" Delta lathe the first time and I've never been sorry. Don't know the model number (and am too lazy to walk down two flights to check) but it swings 16" and has about a 38" bed -- all I've ever needed. Beware though, a lathe is like a wife, it's not the basic purchase but the maintenance. You'll want a three jaw chuck or one of the combination chucks, a live center for the tailstock, about three different tool rests, maybe a tool rest extender, all kinds of calipers both inside and outside, a multitude of lathe tools (although you only really need about three), and all sorts of facinating gagets sold in all the woodworking catalogues. Then, you'll feel your grinder is inadequate and find yourself buying a new one complete with fancy tool rests and a grinding jig (although all you really need is a good tool rest and some practice). Pretty quick you'll double that budget of yours -- but there's nothing quite so much fun as a lathe.
One point for economy -- old (or new inexpensive) files make good lathe tools with a little effort on the grinder and you can play with your own profiles. Clearly, you make your own handles.
Have fun!
Wes Tiffney
Tom,
Get what you think you'd use most and what your money will allow you to get. Personally I like Grizzly tools mainly becouse for what I'd spend on a big name tool I'm able to get more than one item. Last spring I bought a new Grizzly 1023SL cabinet saw I also bought a Grizzly "6 jointer at the same time. If I would have spent the money on a so called American made tool I could not have been able to afford both. I'm like alot of peolpe and beleive in buying American made products but when I look in my woodworking catalogs and next to a picture of a certain tool they have the words " this product American made or made in the USA" but the picture next to it of a similer tool built by the same manufacturer doesnt have the built in America caption. When asked about why American manufacturing is going over see's the responce is its cheaper to build product over there also labor is cheaper but if thats the case then how come the price of tools doesnt go down could it be that profits are more important than loyalty. Maybe we all should use the excuse that big buisness uses ( Its more economical to have products built over sees there for its smart buisness) So apparently we are not suppose to follow their leads. So my oppinion is I think I'll do what big buisness does and do whats right for me and my pocket book and buy what I can afford with out sacrificing quality Personally I'll continue to buy Grizzly. Good luck on your decission and sorry I kind of got side tracked and made my responce a bit long winded.
Happy Holidays
JIM CLARK
Shaper
Then Lathe
Then Morticer
Shaper is a wonderful tool. Lots of doors framing and raising of panels can be done with it. I've got a cost effective sears Cast Iron unit that only takes 1/2 inch bore shaper bits Tool steel. I get all the cutters from rockwell ~ 15 clams each. 200 for a used shaper and 150 in bits and you can turn out some serious work. Now is you want to sink it all in one tool there are some beauties out there but you'd have to go 1500 in my estimation to truely improve on this.
Lathe.. Again find a used one I haven't found my muse on the lathe yet but you might. Can't say I've made much to keep.
Send me the money, ill spend it for you. :-)
Ill buy the shaper and mortiser. If i have any left over, ill find a class and enroll in a turning workshop class to see if its really something ill enjoy.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled