Replies

1. 
   Gretchen | Sep 27, 2006 04:52pm | #1

   Have you done a test of the entire protocol? What is the wood? Why the BLO?

   Just me, but if it's in a kitchen I want oil based finish. Or lacquer.

   Gretchen
1. 
   Nivek | Sep 28, 2006 06:09am | #3

   most of my knowledge on finishing comes out of jeff jewitt's book i just recently read. apparently the blo is supposed to make the grain "pop" which the waterbase will not do. wax free shellac must be used because of adhesion purposes.

   the wood is birch for cottage kitchen cabinets that have alot of color variations.

   i am going to be doing a test soon on some waste material to see how everything comes together but just wanted some experienced woods of wisdom.

   would a oil-based finish be more appropriate for my novice skill level of spraying?

   thanks for the replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 28, 2006 08:21am | #4

   "...the wood is birch ...."  Go back and read his advice on finishing blotch-prone woods.  That might be your biggest challenge!  "Popping grain" is usually sought after for such woods as figured maple.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   Gretchen | Sep 28, 2006 04:23pm | #5

   What forest girl said. Birch doesn't have much to "pop".  And I am aware of the adhesion issues but piggybacking on what FG says, you may want the shellac to keep the wood from blotching rather than for adhesion.If you use non-polyurethane varnish you don't have to worry about adhesion.And I still think oil base is more durable for kitchens.

   A complete finishing job on a scrap is really necessary.Gretchen

1. 
   Nivek | Sep 29, 2006 04:55am | #9

   the shellac comment was actually directed to jackplane but i do not know how to reply all.

   i also considered shellac keeping the grain from raising with the water base but was not aware of the blotching aspects

   i really did not want the shellac for adhesion, i assume the finish will adhere to the wood with or without,  just the right shellac for the finish to adhere to. it seems to help with most problems assoiciated with a water base finish.

   going to look into oil base

   thanks

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 29, 2006 06:55am | #10

   "but i do not know how to reply all."  At the top, when you're writing your message, the To: with a drop-down arrow.  Click on the arrow.  All will be the second option.

   My worst finishing experience ever was with birch ply.  Ow Gawd it was awful.  That was before I knew about using a washcoat of shellac.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   Nivek | Sep 30, 2006 05:07am | #12

   i don't get it! i must be blind because i do not see any pull down arrow beside the to:.

   there is from:Nivek

                  to:forestgirl

   am i missing something or is my page different from yours?

   i never considered the problems with the wood itself taking the finish, it is just a coincidence i was applying shellac. if the container states pure shellac am i right to assume it is wax free?

3. 
   forestgirl | Sep 30, 2006 06:02am | #14

   Ah!  You are in Basic View -- an option that doesn't seem to offer much reason for being, LOL.  Keep going to the bottom of this frame, and you'll see Advanced View, click on that and wait for the page to reload.  Advanced View is really the only way to go, IMHO.

   "if the container states pure shellac am i right to assume it is wax free?"  Nope!  Assume it has wax unless you know otherwise.  The only canned version of dewaxed shellac I am aware of is Zinsser's SealCoat (click!).  Good stuff.  Not always easy to find, 'cause the big box stores don't always carry it.  There are other products that can be used -- Minwax and others sell anti-blotching products that are basically wash-coats, but more expensive than making your own with SealCoat.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

4. 
   Nivek | Oct 01, 2006 04:05am | #15

   excellent! thanks forestgirl for the teachings on how to reply to all. now if everything else i am asking works out this good i'll be a very happy finisher!

5. 
   Nivek | Oct 01, 2006 04:16am | #16

   i think you are right about the shellac being waxed because i did a try today with it and does this sound possible? when shellac was semi dry i ran my finger across it and my finger felt "waxy". sign of wax or just my imagination? also, after 5 hours of drying the thin coat of shellac was still tacky. i read that it could be the shellac is old, past it's best before date.

   thanks for the link Zinsser's SealCoat. i found a place i can purchase it about 30min from my shop. i'm going to pick some up first thing.

6. 
   forestgirl | Oct 01, 2006 08:03am | #17

   "i read that it could be the shellac is old, past it's best before date."  Sounds likely.  The Zinsser's is great because it stays "fresh" quite a long time.  There's info on the can about that.

   Regular shellac's wax will settle out, and you can see it in the bottom of a glass jar if you want to play around with it.  You can de-wax it, but I'd much rather buy it that way -- much more reliable.

   Have fun!  Be sure to do practice boards first.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

7. 
   jackplane | Sep 29, 2006 06:57pm | #11

   The essence of it is that with 40 kitchen doors, you've got a lot of work ahead of you. So it would behoove you to minimize steps, and run a production line approach, once you've run a few tests on scrap.

   With birch ply, boiled linseed oil will minimize blotching. After a few days, depending on temp/humidity, I'd shoot several coats of nitrocellulose lacquer. Sand with 220-320 g, shoot another coat, and you're done.

   The blo also adds an amber tone and brings out the grain somewhat.

   Let us know how it turns out. 

8. 
   Nivek | Sep 30, 2006 05:18am | #13

   your right and i thinking of cutting out the BLO.  just shellac, 2 coat of gloss and 1 coat of satin acrylic/urethane water base varnish. i'm thinking the shellac might bring out the wood like the BLO

   not to many votes for waterbase; why is it not very popular?

   thanks

9. 
   jackplane | Oct 02, 2006 03:11pm | #18

   not to many votes for waterbase; why is it not very popular?

   Folks are less familiar with them. The quality of water-based clearcoats were questionable 10 years ago, but has greatly improved. They are no less toxic to us or the environment than their oil based cousins in many ways.But they perform well. 

2. 
   jackplane | Sep 27, 2006 09:34pm | #2

   i agree with gretchen that you could skip the blo. And use regular shellac instead. Your gun should also have other nozzles, and instructions for best viscosity for each tip.

   latex v.  urethane varnish? I'd use urethane water based. But I always prefer trad. oil based. They don't usually dry as fast, but are more durable(less brittle) than water based.

   Somtimes the best way to learn, is to just do it. You seem to have knowledge here.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/27/2006 2:36 pm ET by jackplane

3. 
   MikeHennessy | Sep 28, 2006 09:25pm | #6

   When I want to use an oil base to "pop" the grain, I usually turn to Danish Oil. I think it dries better than BLO so I worry less about following coats. Just be sure to wait 24 hours at least before second coat.

   Mike Hennessy
   Pittsburgh PA

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/28/2006 2:26 pm ET by MikeHennessy

1. 
   Nivek | Sep 29, 2006 03:59am | #8

   i'll have to do some reading Danish oil, sounds like if may be a better choice.

   thanks

4. 
   CStanford | Sep 29, 2006 12:19am | #7

   Plain BLO needs a teaspoon of Japan drier per pint of oil.

   Might as well use "Danish" oil since it already has the driers added and it is linseed oil with a scant amount of varnish.  In short, it's essentially BLO with driers.  The varnish resins only come into play with several applications.