Hello, I’m in the process of finishing my future shop. Only 14x20ft but that is the maximum I could build. So I’m soon going to put 60 amp of electricity in it and i have a question. Which is, in your ecxperience the best location for the outlets? In particular which hight on the wall you think will be the best? Perhaps coming down from the sealing like I’ve seen in many research labs.
Second, I’m planning to use mainly a 24 inch band saw for my cutings and then finish the wood with hand tools. I’ will also add a table saw and here is my second question. How to bring the heavy tools, band saw ~700 lbs plus, inside the shop since the door is ~36 inches from the ground? Thanks for any inputs.
Replies
Outlet height
My electrical inspector said I went overboard. Not in my mind. My shop is 24' X 30' two stories (Cape Cod house plans) I have four GFCI circuits per floor and the outlets are spaced of four foot centers and those are situated so the circuits are alternately spaced by four. The Outlets are 47" off the floor to accomodate for bench heights and ease of reach. There are also individual and seperate 240V circuits for my table saw, dust collector, jointer and will soon be wiring 240V for my bandsaw and a DeWalt 1947 GP radial arm saw I am restoring.
Too low.
When I wired up my shop I put quad boxes down near the floor where all the wires from the tools would be down and out of the way, but every time I have to move a shop vac or some small tool that is not in a perminant place, I wish I had put them up much higher. The quad box I have on the end of a 4x4 hanging down from the ceiling seemed like a great idea at the time but I found it to be a pain and very seldom use it. I did run three wire plus ground so I could put every other box on a different circuit, the odd circuits on red and the even circuits on black and that saved some time stringing the wire.
outlet planning
You might consider doing a shop layout plan, so you'll know where machines are going to be located. That way, you can plan the outlet locations accordingly. Lights, of course, should not be on tool circuits.
I located my wall outlets about 48" off the floor, so there are easier to get to.
outlet hight.
Thank yuo for the answers. I beleve i'm going with outlets at 48 inches. thanks.
Quad box from ceiling.
Found a pix of the quad box I put over one of my benches. It seemed like a great idea at the time but I never use it. Never got used to the wires coming down from above while I was using a sander or other tool.
how to lift heavy machines?
Any idea on how to lift the machine to bring them in the shop?
Hoist
I work alone and have a basement shop. My heaviest tool is a little over 850 pounds and, of course, there is no way I can get them down the basement steps. Instead I use a half ton chain hoist to lower tools into the basement. I trailer or dolly them into the garage, pick them up with the hoist, then lower them onto a dolly into the basement. The only tricky part is getting them off the dolly at their final location. This won't work for everyone because you need a place to support the hoist. But if you do have such a place, it works. For example you could place a stack of two by eights above half a dozen ceiling joists to spread the load and then secure the hoist to the two by eights.
I'll weigh in on this ;-)
I just got a DeWalt GP radial arm saw that weighs 400+++ lbs. I took it apart for the most part. But still had a garage door to go through and use the front end loader. But the smaller pieces sure helped.
Anticipate future needs.
I have in an old house that only had 60 amp service. When the city inspector saw my tools he advised 200 amp service. I use a lathe made in 1925, 3-phase shaper and an old Boice Crane jig/band saw.
This required a 3-phase coverter and a separate 50 amp circuit for it.
This is what happens when you collect iron and arn.
My 115v equipment seems to run better now.
Solo shop.
One advantage a lot of us have is that we are alone in our shops and usually only have one big machine going at a time. Add a big dust collector and that makes it two at a time. But it's sure nice to have extra service and extra circuits and lots and lots of eight foot fluorescent tubes everywhere.
All my outlets are at 4'6".
All my outlets are at 4'6". It's above lower cabinet level but below the bottom of upper cabinets, it's also above the top of any of my large machines and the plugs are above a piece of plywood leaning against the wall. I've found this height to be good for most of my needs. I also find that I don't have to bend down to plug or unplug my tools. At my age that's a big plus.
Bigger Service
1. I second the suggestion of raising the outlets to over 4 feet off the floor to get them clear of sheet goods.
2. It will hardly cost you much more to run 100 or 200 amp service out to the shop, don't skimp up front, the larger box is easier to work with now and in the future and you won't run out of breaker space.
3. All utility outlets should be twenty amps, don't waste your time running 15 amp circuits.
4. Buy commercial grade back wired grade outlets, no HD 79 cent homeowner specials.
5. Lights should be on two separate circuits that don't serve anything else.
6. Having two outlets side by side, but on separate circuits, in one box is also a good idea, you can plug in a shop vac and the tool at the same location and not overload a single circuit.
7. Have a couple of 240 volt outlets installed, you might need them someday, especially in an area where you might want to install a dust collector.
8. A long outlet strip over a bench for battery chargers is really nice to have.
9. The table saw will probably end up in the middle of the floor, a connection through the floor, so there are no cords across the floor should be planned in, the cable can be run even if not hooked up.
If you can back up a truck to the doors you are at just the right height.
Great reply...but
You said almost everything I would have said! What a great reply, I can tell you have a lot of shop experience.
There are only two things I would add....
1.) Use conduit drops and surface mount boxes on the walls instead of internal wiring and cut-in boxes. Then you can start small with only as many outlets as you feel your shop currently needs and easily add to and move the outlets as your shop matures. This will actually save you money (by not forcing you to install now for possible future needs) and will increase the versatility of your shop in the future.
2.) Instead of just running a wire under the floor to the center of the shop, Consider running an oversized (1-1/2") underground conduit next to a 4" PVC pipe. The 4" line can serve for future dust collection needs and the conduit is large enough to run multiple circuits through or even an airline if desired.
DC
When I researched dust collection a few years ago, 4" was not large enough - 6" was recommended. Just my experience.
Moving your saw
Saw alot of electrical comments but none on getting the saw inside. I Would gather some palets or simular stuff (I used railroad ties I had left over from a landscaping for spouse) and use a engine hoist to lift it a bit and then brace under it outside the door. Until its level with the treshold. Then I would carefully lift it one last time and push it in from the outside. I would leave the engine hoist in the shop and make a crossed sling that meets under the inside of the arc between the wheels to balance it.. The hoists have wheels and are pretty easy to roll around, the lift arm is extendable so it can "reach outside". Not alot of strength is required to lift and lower things with it so your spouse or assistant can help. I had the same issue with a 84"x8" Jointer, used a lift to get it in and place it on its base. Hope this helps.
Rich
Shop outlets and service
I had 200 amp service to my home. When the electric company came to inspect/discuss, they suggested 300 amp service to the house and run 200 amps to the shop via a branch box. This has worked well and my bill runs about $50-75 per month more. It's worth it as I don't have to worry about blowing circuit breakers. As for outlets, I put one every four feet with every other one linked together. I put no more than four outlets on one line, but I am a single man shop. Enjoy your new shop!!! P.S. It's never big enough...I have a 24 by 24 shop with another 16 x 24 available to be finished, which I'll start on this week...
Shop Electrical
I like John's posting on this. As to the conduit suggestion, I have had two large shops (about 2400 Sq ft each) one with conduit and one with everything in the wall and would like to comment on each option. The shop with the conduit layout did allow me to make changes easily to the electrical when I reorganized the space to suit work-flow issues. (layout to suit the flow of lumber and parts around the shop in a systematic manor) And I have to say the electrical changes were very easy and fast due to the conduits. However, now that it is all done (oh and I too used 4'-6" above floor for the boxes) the conduits tend to be in the way of things you want to mount on the walls - think cabinets and fixtures and such- so now they seem a bit of an annoyance.
In the other shop - with all wiring in the walls or in the floor (table saw and dust collector) the walls are all nice clean surfaces with no issue for the cabinets and no place for dust to collect, it also looks more clean and inviting without the conduits on the surface of the walls.
So here is my advice: If you are an experienced woodworker who knows what he wants from the start in the shop layout go with all the wiring in the wall (or floor) and be done with it. When in doubt run over-sized wire that can be used for some 240 Volt outlets later in key places. The walls will be clean and ready for wall-mount cabinets or fixtures and will look nicer as well. I would suggest one over-head utility plug on a retractable wire reel in the open part of the shop, I have found this to be very handy for working on bigger items from time to time in the center of the shop without the danger of tripping on a cord. Makes sweeping the floor easy too!
Robert.
It is hard to picture just what your needs are in regards to getting your tools into your shop. We tend to relate each challenge to our own situation. The first suggestion, by John, to load the machine direcly from the pickup bed to to shop floor sounds easiest. If it is on the ground, can you put some planks from the ground to the shop floor? Probably need some supports along the way. Fasten a cable hoist from something solid inside the shop to the tool and hoist it up and in.
I also would strongly recommend installing at least a 100 amp panel. My shop is quite a bit larger but I used a 200 amp panel and though the total amperage seems to be enough, I wish I had more spaces. I installed seven 220 amp circuits and wish I had allowed for four or five more. I have six ceiling drops and wish I had put in eight. They are very handy. When I put up the dry wall, I never once had to use an extention cord for my corded drill. If I have a tool in the middle of the floor, I can run the cord up to the ceiling drop.
It is hard to picture just what your needs are in regards to getting your tools into your shop. We tend to relate each challenge to our own situation. The first suggestion, by John, to load the machine direcly from the pickup bed to to shop floor sounds easiest. If it is on the ground, can you put some planks from the ground to the shop floor? Probably need some supports along the way. Fasten a cable hoist from something solid inside the shop to the tool and hoist it up and in.
I also would strongly recommend installing at least a 100 amp panel. My shop is quite a bit larger but I used a 200 amp panel and though the total amperage seems to be enough, I wish I had more spaces. I installed seven 220 amp circuits and wish I had allowed for four or five more. I have six ceiling drops and wish I had put in eight. They are very handy. When I put up the dry wall, I never once had to use an extention cord for my corded drill. If I have a tool in the middle of the floor, I can run the cord up to the ceiling drop.
moving heavy machines
I work by myself a lot and move heavy things with "simple machines".
In your case you need a heavy duty ramp built with some stout 2 x 12s maybe with plywood over the top. Then you'll need a hand truck or dolly sufficient for the weight. Lastly a "come along" which you will have to find something substantial to anchor it to in the shop. Crank away.
Good luck, Bret
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