Replies

1. 
   jako17 | Jan 13, 2003 06:21am | #1

   You've probably thought of this but is their some smutz on the flanges or a burr on the washer or if using stiffners on them? Check the blade I had one come back with a burr from sharpening Consider testing with the belt off looking for play in the bearings

1. 
   NOTRIX1 | Jan 13, 2003 07:07am | #2

   Thanks for pointing that out. I cleaned the blade and the flange is bright and shiny, no burrs. I have the blade tightened correctly as well. My saw runs very smooth. Passes nickle test no problem. I was told by the folks who sold me the WW2 that a stiffener is not nessesary and wouldn't help with this problem. As I mentioned this is my 2nd WW2 and while the numbers point towards it being at fault I'm starting to wonder. But the only "play" I can find is that -.001" of runout on the flange. I don't expect it to be perfect and next to perfect is -.001" so.....My dial indicator is a very good quality Starrett and I've eliminated the miter slot play from which I index it.

   The bearings are also nice a tight-no lateral movement. I'd be expecting too much if I hadn't had these baldes before where the cut edge is planer clean. I'm only getting a little bit of saw marks, but as the Forrest salesman told me "for $100 you should get a perfect cut".

   Thanks,

   N

1. 
   ron61 | Jan 13, 2003 07:29am | #3

   Sometimes at work when we put on a new blade they sometimes have a tooth a little out of wack and causes kerf marks usually they make a lot of noise.If you bought it from a sharpening service they should check it out and true it for you. 

2. 
   DennisS | Jan 13, 2003 10:58am | #4

   If you have good saw sharpening service you use frequently, offer to pay them a few dollars to put the WW2 blade on their equipment to check it out. That would eliminate the blade as a problem if good and give you some backup if not and have to return the blade to Forrest.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

3. 
   booch | Jan 14, 2003 01:31am | #5

   2 things to check.

   Check your fence first. Check to see if your fence is aligned with the blade. The fence matches the blade not the slots! In a perfect world they are the same. PS the back of the fence should be slightly (1 rch) wider than the front.

   After realigning the rip fence check to see if you rip without after marks.

   That nick, if it still exists after aligning the fence, could be the blade but if it still scalps the ripped board I'm betting the arbor is out of ailgnment with the slots. (measure the back of the blade to the slot, then compare the front of the blade to the slot)

   2 blades is too many to be bad unless they fell off the truck and then the carbide would be chipped.

   IF you do it right you check the alignment of the blade arbor yoke to the slots when you set up the saw for the first time. Then you align the fence to your newly aligned blade arbor. Then you set up the saw miter to show 90 degrees then you skin the fence with the sacrificial face and then tune in the measurement pointer on the fence.

   The Arbor step is what is usually missed. The way I figure it these are made on a piece rate and alignment is a time thing. It just gets generalized.

   Another example is the oven in your house. Unless it is digital there is an adjustment scale on the back side of your oven temperature knob. It allows you to adjust to the exact temperature in your oven. That takes an hour of soak time and a separate temperature gauge to set it. You can't do that in a factory. You do it on site.

1. 
   jimhamster | Jan 18, 2003 10:15am | #9

   Saw your posting on tablesaw set up.  I just got a new saw, am familiar with what I need to check (arbor run out, blade alignment, etc) but am curious what you and others consider good numbers.  To whit: how much arbor run out is acceptable? , run out at edge of blade?, difference in distance between front & back of blade from the 2 slots? how far do you kick out the rear of the fence from the rear of the blade? How about table flatness?  I have a bit of a dip (.025) on the far right corner, is that a problem or is it far enough from the blade not to affect anything.  And finally how critical is it for the fence to be 90 degrees to the table, mine wants to kick back away from the blade (ie I can slip a .015 gauge behind my square where it should touch the top edge of the fence).  Thanks.

1. 
   booch | Jan 20, 2003 05:37pm | #10

   There are numbers I'm sure. I generally save the feeler gauges to the valve train on the old beetle. I'm not the guy for those numbers. I'm kind of a rubber meets the road guy.

   Saying that test 'er out. If you get ghost marks or scalps from the blade on a rip then you need to adjust. I tend to get no more accurate than I can measure with traditional measurement tools. (Starret 1' rule) I think 1/32" is close enough, others may think this is sloppy. If I can't see it, it doesn't exist. Simplified but I'm not shooting straight lines to Mars. I rip 3 foot boards.

   I'd rather spend more time selecting grain & jointery than getting too accurate. Besides one good whack with the 15 foot 3 x 12 walnut plank I cut last week could knock all your adjustments out of line.

   Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?

4. 
   Mackwood | Jan 14, 2003 05:33am | #6

   I think that .010 runout is quite a bit for what should be a good quality saw blade.  The .001 at the flange is about as good as you can expect on the contractor saw you are using.  I have a 1946 vintage Delta contractor saw (tilting table type) and when I mount my 15 year old Freud fine cut-off blade, I get a bit less than .004 runout just below the teeth.  It sure sounds to me like the your problem is the blade! 

5. 
   mfg_king | Jan 14, 2003 06:44am | #7

   I had a similar problem. Try checking the run outs with the blade washer removed and the arbor nut only finger tight. When I did this, I found the washer wasn't perfectly flat and when I torqued the nut, it distorted the blade. I had the washer repaired at work and now all is fine.

6. 
   NOTRIX1 | Jan 15, 2003 03:40am | #8

   Thanks for all the input. Here's what I've done: I loosened the blade enough to keep it tight against the flange but not spin with the arbor. I then put the dial indicator on it and slowly spun just the arbor and held the blade in place and found that the runout of the flange/arbor is .004" 10"from it's axis. With over all wobble of .010" that means my blade is out .006". Both of these numbers are well within specs but added up to noticable wobble.

   The fix: I put a strip of scotch tape between the flange and the blade covering just about 1/8" of the flange. Wobble is now .000" I suppose I could line up the blade just right on the flange and mark it and the 2 would off set each other. Seems like I may have had them both lined up at the worse case senario position. Still seems like most of the blades problem would lie closer to the rim, but the .0015" strip of tape did the trick! For now anyway.

   Thanks again,

   N

7. 
   noone51 | Jan 20, 2003 06:43pm | #11

   It sounds as though the tape cured the problem but you shouldn't have to have the blade that perfect to get a clean cut. You didn't say whether the problem was occuring during rips but since you mentioned your fence I'll make the assumption that this is when its happening.

   Are you using a splitter or riving knife?

   The reason I ask is because if the wood is closing up on it will cause the problem you are describing no matter how perfect the alignment on your blade or fence. You should also be using a feather board, (when possible), to keep the wood from skewing during the cut.

1. 
   NOTRIX1 | Jan 20, 2003 07:05pm | #12

   Hi,

   The problem occurred during ripping, cross cutting is better, but I've only cross cut some 5" boards. I'm using a splitter I made myself that's a little thinner than the blade.

   I did some more investigation and am getting some widley different responses regarding the fence alignment. Forrest says it must be open up .005" . A freind has one of those $100 table saw alignment jigs and it suggests .020" + blade / arbor runout. So we're talking about .032" on mine with all combined. I have it at .020" and it's better. I've moved on in my current project and had an injury so haven't done any final adjustments or tried this on some 8/4 boards.

   It just goes to show you with many variables even within specs you can have a hard time.

   N

1. 
   noone51 | Jan 20, 2003 08:43pm | #13

   I have the long, commercial, Beismeyer fence on my saw and I set it to .005 out (right of the blade) when its on the right side. If I move it over to the left side of the blade I have to remember that it will be pinching the blade and a re-adjustment is necessary. .020 or .032 seems like more than would be needed. 

   You havent added a sacraficial board to your fence or anything like that have you? 

1. 
   NOTRIX1 | Jan 20, 2003 09:54pm | #16

   No sacraficial fence, Stock Biesmeyer. I've made one that slips over for those "biting cuts"

   Thanks,

   N

1. 
   noone51 | Jan 21, 2003 11:47am | #17

   O.K. then I'm gonna go with the splitter alignment problem as being the real cause. Play with it a bit and let me know if the problem clears up. BTW is that a 3/32 F-WWII blade? If so that may be where you problems comming from. Although, I have that blade and it cuts like a hot knife in warm butter. Smooth as silk...

2. 
   bsutton12 | Jan 20, 2003 08:58pm | #14

   If your splitter is thinner than the kerf, be sure that the splitter is aligned with the teeth on the right side of the blade (side near the fence).  Otherwise, it could possibly pull the wood into the back of the blade.

1. 
   NOTRIX1 | Jan 20, 2003 09:53pm | #15

   Good point,

   I have it aligned with the left side. It's .085" and my blade FWWII is .125 so about .040" gap is left. Until I find some stock closer to the blade width, ( should a splitter be exactly the size slight over or slightly under?) I'll shim it to the right side.

   Thanks for pointing that out,

   N

1. 
   bsutton12 | Jan 21, 2003 11:12pm | #18

   The splitter mount (under the table) is adjustable on my Delta Contractor's saw.  You have to loosen a couple of screws.  It takes a little fiddling to get it just right.