Okay, so I’m new to woodworking (just finished my first project – the basic workbench) and my ambition is taking me to wanting to build a storage bed – a queen sized, frame and panel bed.
I have a few questions and assumptions that I would appreciate feedback on.
The first is related to the type of wood to use. I have settled on red oak, since it’s a widely available hardwood. Are there other kinds of wood I should be considering?
The second is related to the panel portions. I can’t find red oak panels, so is there a good alternative that will not look different when it comes time to stain?
And finally, in the plans I’ve seen, the siderails are supposed to be more than an inch thick (something like 1.25 to 1.75 inches), but at Home Depot / Lowes, all I see are thicknesses of one inch (and it doesn’t even look like they’re really one inch thick). I don’t have access to any sort of lumber yard, so home depot and lowes are about my only options.
Any recommendations or advice?
Replies
Join a local woodworking club or better yet a guild.
Lowes and Home Depot
Nah dude nah. that stuff is usually not dry enough and is often barely adequate to make a third rate job at a high material cost.
Surely there is a lumber supplier near you. The one I use is very small and has a show room the size of a star-bucks coffee shop but they do a great job for me and have been there a long time 30 years or more.
Look around, ask around, join a local woodworking club or better yet a guild. A guild will be organized enough to share orders of wood and other costs.
If you fail there, and it is hard for me to imagine you will, then order from one of the many fine lumber suppliers across the nation.
By the way you will probably need a bandsaw now or in the future to saw thick planks ( two or three inches thick ) into the thicknesses you would like to use. You may find some one willing to do this for you a time or two but good luck getting it done when ever you need it in small batches.
Panels :
Pretty much everyone here glues up wide panels from boards that are roughly ten inches wide or less. This is called edge jointing.
An alternative is to buy cabinet grade plywood that is available veneered with the red oak on one or both sides, again forget about the local home centers for this. There are some drawbacks to working this way. A trade off. You will need to edge the plywood with solid wood and it is sooooo easy to damage the super thin veneer or sand through it.
Properly dried solid wood from a real lumber supplier is what you will need to do most likely.
Yep shipping is an expensive bear. You could drive out of town or out of state to get the wood.
Sorry. Woodworking can get kind of pricy and involved.
PS: the photo shows a panel of walnut I glued up from narrower width boards to make one wide board ( several of these to make a case actually ). The panel is a custom thickness that I could not buy off the shelf; about three eighths inch as I recall or ten millimeters actually. I resawed the thinner/narrower boards to thickness from thick planks using a bandsaw and then jointed the edges to make up the panel. Then smoothed it and took it to final thickness using hand planes. The coin in the pic is a nickel and it is centered over one of the joints. I could not have bought some thing like this any where, I had to make it.
PPS: I don't know where you are but as a last resort here is an excellent supplier that ships nation wide.
http://www.cswoods.com/
Their stuff is some of the best and they charge accordingly but they have had things I could find no where else. Camphor wood for instance.
beds
FWIW, I agree with Roc - avoid home centers for lumber intended for furniture. It is just too difficult to predict what the wood is going to do as it dries. There are online sources that will ship (usually motor freight). Living in New Mexico, I've had good luck with both Woodworker's Source in AZ, and McKinney Hardwood in TX. There are other suppliers in other areas. You just need to figure out a plan that will work for you.
Learning how to glue up panels is one of the "rites of passage" in woodworking. Although it is possible to use furniture-grade plywood that has been veneered in the appropriate species, it will usually stain differently than the surrounding solid wood. Thus, you'd need to experiment with different stains and methods to get consistent color.
Bed's a nice challenge
Nice project. I've just started a bed project bought the 12/4 cherry on friday for mine (pencil post). As to your questions
Red oak is fine. I've built a few pieces with RO it is inexpensive and if you like to highlight grain it is good for that. It's very open grained so if you want a smooth surface a grain filler will be needed. I would not get it from a big box store. It will be over priced. Go to woodfinder.com to find a supplier in your area. If you cannot surface rough lumber and want to do woodworking thats the first thing I'd invest in. A planer and jointer are nice and go to craigs list to get an old one resonable or you can get a benchtop unit. If cost is tight, get a hand plane done that for a while and it works just need sweat. Bed rails finished thickness are generally 1 1/4" but they not need be solid stock. Matter of fact, I'm not going solid, but a laminated beam of three pieces, with a top cap and bottom cap. Facia will be be cherry with the back two pieces poplar to provide strength and stability. As to your panel question, if you want finished dimension stock and don't have the tools to do it i.e. resawing whole boards and gluing them or using ply for your panels, looke for a ww club in your area and join and pay a member a nominal fee to process your stock for you. Really depends on where your at.
Thanks everyone for the feedback so far!
I'll be investing some time into looking for other sources of wood in my area. :-)
A new question as a result of the feedback:
I would ideally like a smooth surface, so are there any other price-comparable hardwoods I should consider that's not as open grained?
Thanks!
species vs. cost
"I would ideally like a smooth surface, so are there any other price-comparable hardwoods I should consider that's not as open grained?"
I think you'll find that retail prices vary significantly depending on your geographic location. The closer you are to the source of a particular wood, the cheaper it will be . . . comparitively.
If you aren't already familiar with the Woodfinder site, you might find it helpful: http://www.woodfinder.com/
something else
Something else to consider is what is economical where your are. Use to be here your profile would say what part of the country or what country you are at. That can drive a lot too. I'm in PA so what I can get economically could be very different say from someone in the norhwest or southeast. I've moved a couple times and found that out. When I lived in VA white oak was cheap and poplar (most places it still is). I lived in the midwest and walnut and red oak was the best bet. I settled in on cherry and have worked with that ever since. You can also get different grades and save. I buy seldom the FAS high $$ stuff but get 250-500 BF at a time and you find gems in the pile most times. When needing QS stuff I'll buy wide boards that are flat sawn and cut the outside edges that will be quartersawn. Boards that have one good face but a grain defect on the back side will be cheaper but just as good. Since you are new to the craft anoth big issue you will deal with is wood movement. Remember solid wood will move no matter what you do. You have to get use to that. As such allow for the movement and you will be ok. Ignore it and you will be a sad man. Don't ask me how i know. Once you accept that the rest isn' that bad. large solid panels are the most challenging as they move the most and QS moves the least but costs more. So maybe for your bed panels go with a ply or a veneer over a stable substrait. If you have your heart set on large solid panels for your bed then be prepared. Good luck have fun and also don't be afraid of required design changes (mistakes). Its all part of learning.
The usual suspects
Regular (sugar/rock) maple , walnut and cherry.
If you use very boring grain you can keep the price down. That is not necessarily bad for the over all structure. Then consider splurging for some more exotic figured examples of the same wood for the panels or a portion of each panel that you want to focus the observer's eye to.
Some of the less expensive planks of this wood may be more figured but may be a waste of money in large planks because the wood will have too many flaws or reaction wood. Only intended for or useful when sawn up to make small projects
The choices/trade offs :
Inexpensive, boring and usable because it stays relatively straight when you mill it.
Inexpensive, more figure but unstable (twists, bows or cups during milling )
Or
More expensive, more exciting and in the best case, fairly stable in long lengths.
Be careful. Learn about your material first.
May be worth making a smaller project or two to get a feel for the problems you may run into.
The first photo bellow is of a high quality ( read breath takingly expensive ) plank. Nice figure, a pleasure to work, remained stable after I cut it to thickness.
The glued up table from several of those planks. You would call me crazy if I told you what the wood in that table cost.
The the neighbor hood wood guys special ordered the planks for me and advised me and It was a great experience. The table has remained flat after a couple of years.
The book cases on the other hand . . .
Yah . . . different story. I got the wood from Home Depot, It was already milled so thin there was no extra to work with to get the planks flatter or straighter. I had to wrestle the mess into something that would hold up piles of books off the floor. The screws in the first two on the left pull things into shape. The shelves are not particularly flat but they are short enough they don't sag.
The third book case, the one on the right, I decided to get all fancy and make sliding dove tails on the ends of the shelves going into the up right sides. I bought the plank because of the cool figure but it was slightly cupped and cupped even more after I got it into my shop and it dried out more. Again no extra thickness to mill it flat.
Once I had cut the dove tails and then it cupped even more it was just so fun to try to force together.
Fun, fun, fun.
Good thing it is soft wood and thin. That is about the best I can say for it.
PS: the last photo ( third photo of book case ) is a screwy perspective it makes the side look both thicker and not as wide as it really is.
I'm an avid woodworker/cabinet maker/finish carpenter and although I can build whatever you'd like from plans, something as personal as a bed frame can sometime best be handled in two steps since the amounts of wood involved are impressive. Build it first out of lower cost materials to make sure you like the style and dimensions, to fine tune your construction technique, and to customize it to what you want.
My favorite bed frame is a 4 poster styled somewhat off of a Stickly design out of a current catalog and there's over $500 in rough 8/4 and 6/4 red oak- probably $600 at most hardwood suppliers. But I first built it out of $70 in construction grade lumber from Home Depot - I looked at a number of stores to find the driest 4x4 posts with the straightest grain and was delighted to find a store with structural select kiln dried doug fir that had been sitting for a long time at the store and were nearly dry enough. I rough cut them to length and stickered them behind a couch in the living room for a few months to finish drying out (kiln dry is only 16% while in my area 7% is what wood usually reaches in the interior of a house).
Once the bed was completed as first invisioned, I took it apart and changed just about every part of it until the design was exactly what I wanted then built it out of oak. The first frame was given away to a friend so it didn't go to waste.
I like to use this same principle when building furniture for picky clients - often something is very quick to build out of mdf so the client can see exactly what they are getting, then we tweak it and make the final version out of hardwood. If you are new to woodworking I'd highly suggest buying a few sheets of mdf - it's very easy to work with and will speed up your woodworking skills - then build your final desing out of something more durable. Why not inexpensive pine? It's not straight in any direction and you'll spend your time fighting bows, twists, and cups when you should be thinking of design, good square cuts and whatnot.
Depending on the part of country you are in, it's almost always less expensive to find hardwood from places like craigslist if you have the time and desire to sort through the crap. Guys who run small sawmills can often supply thicker boards that are green and need to be dried for a fraction the cost of something from a hardwood supplier. You need to learn as much about wood as you can before doing this or you'll have problems with twists, checks, and other such things in the end. Ideal would be a standing dead tree that someone has cut down and sawn up - it's already pretty dry.....you may run into various fruit woods, exotics, common hardwoods, or things you can't tell what they are, but from the density and grain you just know you like.
You'[ll find a bed is a large project to get started in workiing with, but you'll learn a lot!
I'm an avid woodworker/cabinet maker/finish carpenter and although I can build whatever you'd like from plans, something as personal as a bed frame can sometime best be handled in two steps since the amounts of wood involved are impressive. Build it first out of lower cost materials to make sure you like the style and dimensions, to fine tune your construction technique, and to customize it to what you want.
My favorite bed frame is a 4 poster styled somewhat off of a Stickly design out of a current catalog and there's over $500 in rough 8/4 and 6/4 red oak- probably $600 at most hardwood suppliers. But I first built it out of $70 in construction grade lumber from Home Depot - I looked at a number of stores to find the driest 4x4 posts with the straightest grain and was delighted to find a store with structural select kiln dried doug fir that had been sitting for a long time at the store and were nearly dry enough. I rough cut them to length and stickered them behind a couch in the living room for a few months to finish drying out (kiln dry is only 16% while in my area 7% is what wood usually reaches in the interior of a house).
Once the bed was completed as first invisioned, I took it apart and changed just about every part of it until the design was exactly what I wanted then built it out of oak. The first frame was given away to a friend so it didn't go to waste.
I like to use this same principle when building furniture for picky clients - often something is very quick to build out of mdf so the client can see exactly what they are getting, then we tweak it and make the final version out of hardwood. If you are new to woodworking I'd highly suggest buying a few sheets of mdf - it's very easy to work with and will speed up your woodworking skills - then build your final desing out of something more durable. Why not inexpensive pine? It's not straight in any direction and you'll spend your time fighting bows, twists, and cups when you should be thinking of design, good square cuts and whatnot.
Depending on the part of country you are in, it's almost always less expensive to find hardwood from places like craigslist if you have the time and desire to sort through the crap. Guys who run small sawmills can often supply thicker boards that are green and need to be dried for a fraction the cost of something from a hardwood supplier. You need to learn as much about wood as you can before doing this or you'll have problems with twists, checks, and other such things in the end. Ideal would be a standing dead tree that someone has cut down and sawn up - it's already pretty dry.....you may run into various fruit woods, exotics, common hardwoods, or things you can't tell what they are, but from the density and grain you just know you like.
You'[ll find a bed is a large project to get started in workiing with, but you'll learn a lot!
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