Replies

1. 
   knarf | Jul 13, 2006 01:10pm | #1

   watco   3 coats   each a week apart       wax or not after

    

   why would you want to stain walnut?

1. 
   steffcat | Jul 13, 2006 05:45pm | #3

   Knarf,

   The reason I wanted to stain the walnut is because some of the wood, (epecially in the legs because they were 16/4) have some sap wood in them. I wanted to darken them up like the rest of the wood. 

   I appreciate your advice and will try it on some samples. 

1. 
   frenchy | Jul 16, 2006 08:42pm | #16

   steffcat got a little sap wood on the legs?

    OK take a steamer and steam the legs.. Don't do it to the rest of the wood or you'll lose a lot of the variety of colors in air dried walnut..

    Steam will turn the white wood brown..

    then put a shellac finish on it.. the warmth in shellac will help bring out that wonderful walnut color naturally.

    

1. 
   Brrman | Jul 17, 2006 08:49pm | #17

   I just finished a large walnut trim project (400 bd feet) in my sunroom - the majority of it was steamed and kiln dried. It seemed a little cold - less purples and reds, so I put a light coat of Minwax Jacobian stain to make it a more chocolate color, and then 4 coats of rub of satin poly, and finally an application of Johnsons paste wax. Looks amazing to say the least.

   Edited 7/17/2006 1:51 pm ET by Brrman

2. 
   RMillard | Jul 13, 2006 02:12pm | #2

   Steffcat,

   I, too have been unhappy with the cold tint of steamed walnut. I color walnut with an orange aniline dye; this gives the walnut a very nice warm brown color, that doesn't obscure the grain like a gel stain would.

   After the dye has dried, I apply a very thin coat of de-waxed dark shellac, followed by oil based grain filler, and several thin coats of super blond shellac or varnish depending on the intended use.

   I will apply a gel stain to some projects, after the grain filler, to give some depth to moldings and turnings and to impart some "age". Used in this way the gel stain acts as a glaze and very little left on the surface to obscure the grain.

   Rob Millard

    

1. 
   steffcat | Jul 13, 2006 05:49pm | #4

   RMillard,

   Thanks for the advice and I will give it a shot.  The legs and the rest of the table all  have a different tint to them even before finishing so I was looking for something to give it a uniform look.  I will give it a try. 

1. 
   tcbaldmtn | Jul 13, 2006 08:59pm | #5

   I'm finishing a Walnut/Birdseye Maple table.  The top and legs are Walnut and the aprons are the Birdseye Maple. 

   On my top I had some sapwood and used the corner of a rag and medium brown tint from transtint to darken just the sapwood.  I used the rag like a paint brush.  Then I mixed up some reddish brown, honey amber, and dark walnut dye and coated the whole piece.

   I  sealed the dye with dewaxed blonde shellac, then applied General's Antique Walnut stain.  Sealed that with another coat of shellac and finished it up with Wipe on Poly.   I know it sounds like a lot but it looks great and unlike most people I like finishing.

1. 
   steffcat | Jul 13, 2006 10:36pm | #6

   Unfortunately Im one of those people.  That sounds nice, but a lot of work.

    

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 13, 2006 11:53pm | #7

   We spent major amounts of time, and spend money on wood and machinery, but don't want to spend some extra time to take the finish to an equivalent level.  While a great finish can't turn badly made pieces into treasures, even the finest joinery and design can be destroyed with a mediocre finish.  I wonder why?  Any psychologists want to chime in? 

2. 
   steffcat | Jul 14, 2006 07:52am | #9

   Steve,The only thing I can come up with is that when I finish the construction of a project, the only thing that I am thinking is to get it in the house as soon as possible. I understand that this is not the right way to think or feel, but I concentrate so much on the building that when it is over I don't have anything left for the finishing. This project is the first one for someone other than myself so I have been thinking and planning a lot more on the finish. I know that it is a very important part of the project and that is why I am looking for suggestions on the finish. I have always been a tung and linseed oil guy, but haven't liked the results on walnut. So to answer your question I guess on my part it is just impatience. How do you finish walnut?

3. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 14, 2006 08:23am | #10

   Rob Millard gave a very good schedule.  I like shellac, particularly dark shellac, on walnut.  I also use an oil based pore filler, tinted with burnt umber pigment shaded with a tinge of burnt sienna.  I only use traditional resin varnish (never poly) on table tops. 

   Dealing with sapwood is the biggest challenge.  It calls for dye, and depending on the nature of the walnut, may need some grain features to be painted in with dye toned shellac.  Better to either avoid it--on traditional furniture--or to make it part of the design--on contemporary pieces.   

   I do understand the impatience.  Probably the best thing to do is to tell yourself right at the outset that the project will be only half complete when you are done with the assembly and glue up. 

   Edited 7/14/2006 1:27 am ET by SteveSchoene

4. 
   SgianDubh | Jul 14, 2006 03:43pm | #13

   I think it's always a mistake to avoid considering how a project is going be to polished at the end. I'd work hard to get rid of that habit fast if it were me in your shoes. The finish is in part dependent upon the end use and location of the piece of furniture, so it's important to know what finishes will be a ppropriate for a particular piece.

   It's not unusual for the preparing for (planing, scraping, sanding) and actual polishing to take up anywhere between 20% and 30% of all the time put into making a piece.

   With so much effort (typically) required to get this part of the project right I believe it's a fault to think of finishing as an afterthought.

   There's an old design motto-- a bit of a cliche maybe, but there's sense in it too. It goes, "When you design furniture, design from the handles back." I'll let you work out what the implication of the saying is.

   And walnut? Yes, it usually looks cold and uninviting if it's not warmed up a bit as others have said. I almost always use a bit of dye to give some warmth. Usually I go with a mix that might include the following aniline types: Van Dyke brown, red and yellow. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

5. 
   steffcat | Jul 16, 2006 06:22am | #14

   SgianDubh,Thanks, you made some really good points. It is a habit that I must fix. I will give the dye a try. Thanks again. Steffen

6. 
   sdergar | Jul 16, 2006 04:43pm | #15

   I love working with black walnut and the finish that I found best was Deft Danish Oil.  I've tried many different solutions...mixing my own (tung, linseed & urethan) trying store bought and in the end the easiest, quickest and good results came from the Deft.  the only other one I use is shellac if it's not going to take to much abuse.  Both the finishes get a final coat of a good wax.

    

   Steven

    

2. 
   dwolsten | Jul 14, 2006 06:36am | #8

   Do you have a picture of this piece that you could post? Sounds really interesting.

2. 
   RMillard | Jul 14, 2006 02:34pm | #11

   Steffcat,

   You could use the gel stain after sealing the wood, to blend the colors, or better yet dye them to match to an aniline dye. I will admit that I'm not good at matching dye colors, as I have a problem with color blindness. For that reason I avoid sapwood altogether, and I'm pretty careful about selecting lumber for shades (oddly I can see shades as well, or better than someone who is not color blind). I also wonder in the long run how successful blending sapwood is, as the heartwood will continue to change color but the sapwood may not.

   I have attached a photo of some finished walnut. I'm not sure this is worth the effort though, because it may not show up on the computer in the true color.

   Rob Millard

1. 
   calvinhobbs | Jul 14, 2006 03:17pm | #12

   I recently finished a walnut corner cupboard and can echo what some of the others here have said.

   I wanted to acheive the warm, reddish look of an 18th century piece, so I dyed it a pretty strong red and used orange shellac.  I could have filled the pores but I chose not to.  Turned out great.

   Cal

    

   Sorry Rob I meant to send to steffcat.

   Edited 7/14/2006 8:19 am ET by CalvinHobbs

1. 
   RMillard | Jul 18, 2006 03:38am | #18

   Cal,

   I have used a similar finish myself. On the attached photos the cabinets were dyed with a reddish aniline dye, then sealed with shellac and given a reddish brown glaze.

   Like your project, the resulting color was nice.

   Rob Millard

2. 
   joinerswork | Jul 18, 2006 08:58pm | #19

   Rob, Cal, and All,

   Walnut can look pretty good with almost anything on it.  I recall Carlyle Lynch telling me about a walnut ceremonial gavel he was shown.  When he commented on its pretty color, its maker, an amateur, confided that it was an oil finish.  Pennzoil, 10-w- 30!  Another guy, an excellent craftsman,long dead, let me in on his secret walnut stain.  Road tar, dissolved in gasoline! It was a nice color.

   New walnut does often have a blue, or smokey, cast that I think is improved by adding some color, like your yellow or red dye, that warms it up a bit.  A  fairly dilute yellow dye, incidentally, applied to an inlaid piece,  will improve the appearance of both the walnut and the  maple inlay; no need to painstakingly paint the inlay with shellac or lacquer to seal the dye away.

   Regards,

   Ray Pine

3. 
   SteveSchoene | Jul 19, 2006 12:54am | #20

   Road tar--in slightly different form termed asphaltum--is a frequent ingredient in commercial stains, Watco Walnut being an example I believe. 

4. 
   joinerswork | Jul 19, 2006 06:28am | #21

   Steve,

   Yeah, on the asphaltum, but I wonder if Watco uses regular, or high-test? ;-)

   Cheers,

   Ray