Ok, I realize this isn’t fine woodworking and I am usually more into small boxes than houses, but here is my problem. I had new gutters installed about 5-6 years ago. They are aluminum (sp) “single piece” gutters. These are the kind where the only seam is at the corners where they cut them to fold for the corners. I had these installed because I figured there was less chance of leaking. When they were first installed the contractor didn’t seal the corners and every corner leaked. I had them come out and seal all the corners and thought the problem was solved. I am now thinking I have a much larger problem. Of course they had a lifetime warranty, but the company is now gone so the lifetime was the lifetime of the company not mine or the gutters.
Last year we had some heavy rains and an entire section of the front gutter pulled away from the house. I am just getting around to fixing it, and on looking closer I see additional problems. All the gutters seem to have moved away from the backing board, by anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 of an inch. As I look at the corners again, I find that they have been leaking in a non obvious way, and all the corner sealing is cracked and leaking, and now all the paint is starting to peel and blister at the corners. Before I had the new gutters installed I went around and checked all the backing boards to insure they were solid and repainted them.
Not having installed gutters before I never paid any attention to how they were installed, and now that I am having problems and looking closer I am questioning some things. Since I am sure they there are people on this forum that have a LOT more experience than I do I thought I would ask. The nails that are holding the gutters up are about 3 ft apart, while that looks good it seems a little far now that I am looking at it differently. The front of my house which includes an attached garage is about 80 feet long and has one gutter about 15 ft – 20 ft from one end in front of my porch. That now seems a long way to go without a gutter, even though it didn’t seem to be a problem for the original gutters. Just about where I would think there should be another gutter (20-30 ft away) is where it pulled away from the house.
Ok now I have a series of questions. Help!!
1. Where I have looked the wood still seems solid, but in some places has begun to warp, and of course the paint is peeling. What is the best way to deal with this without removing the gutters.
2. What is the correct sealant to seal the corners? When I go to the big block stores, I can’t find a sealant that says it is for sealing gutters or is rated for under water. Silicone seems to be the best choice.
3. Am I just ahead to tear out the new gutters and replace any damaged backing and get someone in to replace the gutters? A very expensive option.
4. Are there any other options?
5. If my only option is to replace the gutters, how do I go about finding a reliable contractor. Last time I checked Better Business Bureau, and asked for references and quotes, but I obviously missed something.
I am sorry this is so long but I have always figured why use 2 words when 6 will do just as well. Any help or comments are appreciated.
Thanks.
Silversmith
Replies
You're right there is a huge amount of knowledge here, but I wonder if the crew over at Breaktime might have more experience with this type of question. You can post over there as well as here with your login.
Dirtstirrer,
Thanks for the tip, I am new to this forum, and hadn't made the connection to Breaktime yet. Yet another vast pool of knowledge. Thanks.
Silversmith,
No expert here, but have had gutter problems in the past. The first question you need to ask is 'do you need them?' and if you do because of soil conditions are the downspouts tied into a dry well? Often, if he overhang is sufficient, and crushed stone arond the base of the house for a couple of feet...all is well to go without
Many believe gutters should stand proud of the wood by about 1/2" or so..so that any wetness on the wood can dry. My house was white cedar and they should have used glue diped spikes to hold the gutter...they didn't.
I can't answer all the questions but as far as gutter sealant, it's usually sold where the gutters are, not the caulk, and is readily available........and it works. I think you're saying you have an 80' run with only one downspout. That can be a lot of weight in a heavy rain and could be the reason nails are pulling out. If you add another downspout, you may have to rehang a portion of gutter to get the proper fall (slant). Also if the nails aren't hitting the ends of the rafters and are just into the facia board, they'll pull loose easily. A good installer will hit the rafter tails, a crappy one will just slam them into the facia board any old place, causing splits. Maybe get a reputable installer to do more of a repair than a replacement job.
A lot of people have a problem with gutters. First thing you need to do is install a drip edge ( about 1 1/4 inches or better. This will keep the water away from the fascia. Second is how are the gutters attached to the house? The old gutter spikes of yesteryear are gone and have been replaced by screw in brackets. All gutter hangers require a solid board to screw into ( rafter tails must be solid and not rotted). If the fascia or tails are rotted, replace so you have good wood. Third, The good gutter sealant for corners is found at a company that makes gutters or industrial supply house. It is a type of tar, not a silicone ( black jack or karnak in a tube is a suitable substitute). These products need to be put on when the gutter corner or area around the hole has been cleaned ( formula 409 or any window cleaner) and dry. Fourth, the gutters must be pitched toward downspouts at a rate of 1/4 inch per foot. Otherwise, the gutter fills up and pulls away from the house, wetting the fascia and rotting the eaves. Fifth, Leaves and branches along with tennis balls need to be kept out. A gutter screen or flip up grates especially made for doing this are available at Industrial supply houses and are easily installed. Also, think about installing electric heater lines in gutters if you have ice damming or are in a cold climate. If all of these steps are met you shouldn't have any more problems.
Buytle rubber is what you caulk with.
Hi Herbie,
any gutter supply will sell gutter sealer or ruscoe sealant. Do not use silicone, it wont work in this application, you will need to get up there and clean the corners well, so that the sealant can adhere. What you describe about the gutters pulling away is fairly common, it may, or may not be the installers fault, Ice in the winter that loads up in the gutters will push a gutter away from the fascia. this also pulls the spikes with it, most people will bang them back in ,but that is really just cosmetic, once the psike is loosened , its not much help anymore. When you go buy the sealant,ask for hidden hangers with screws. install these in the gutter, every two feet. screw them into the fascia do not overtighten them, just snug em up. If you overtighten them , you run the same risk that when the ice loads up , the tension in the screw may cause the shank to snap.
HOpe this helps E
Naw. I know alot of people use butyl rubber but most of the time after a couple of years the stuff comes loose even after cleaning the metal well and making sure it's dry. Karnak seals nicely, is spreadable and doesn't harden.
is karnak a bituminous product?
Don't know if it is. Why? Does it make a difference somehow? I'll check and see. When I find out I'll get back to you.
I installed gutters for 15 years. First thing- facia board- if you can dig your finger nail in it easily time to rip it all down, gutters and all, and replace it. Hire a reputable gutter contractor to do the job and insist he use hidden hangers vs spikes. Find a company that has been in business minimum 10-15 years. There is very good money in gutters so there is no reason for someone to go out of business unless they have other problems. If your facia is okay- repairing a sub par gutter job is possible but not that easy to do. So much easier to do it right when you first put them up. In gutters the material cost is 25% of the bill, the rest is labor and profit. If you hire someone to repair the gutters it may not cost much more to put up new gutters. If you decide to repair yourself-
1- Use Ruscoe permanent sealer in the corners. If possible peal out old sealer and clean surface. Use a lot in each corner- puddle it up good and thick. If you use the squeeze tube type I always used a whole tube in each corner
2- Do an internet search for gutter hidden hangers and install in your gutters every 18-24". Gutters expand and contract with the heat and cold. Rule of thumb- for every 100' of gutter, for every 60 degrees of temperature change, gutter will grow or shrink and inch. That is why spikes never stay in- the grow and shrink pull them out gradually. Screws in hidden hangers work better- use #10 x 1 1/2" screws or bigger.
How to find a gutter contractor? Look in the phone book and call three to five of the biggest ads. Yellow page advertising is expensive so this is someone who wants your business. Some gutter people specialize in new work and don't know how to deal with a homeowner. How long been in business? References? Owner do work himself, if not have a bunch of young inexperienced people doing work? When they come out to do estimate is it a written estimate? (NOT price on back of business card!) Warranty certificate? Have proper licenses and insurance?
Another way is to find someone by referal. Who did your neighbor's house? After a few years all my work was referal. I don't know how many times I've heard- you did my mother/brother/ son/ friend/neighbor's house! I use to pull up to the first job on a subdivsion street where the gutter jobs were bad and look and say "within two years I will do that one, that one, that one".
Gutters is a trade. Nowadays a lot of companies train an installer over two weeks and the new guy is a gutter installer. Bogus! I would train a new person minimum 12-18 months with an experienced installer. This is why there are so many gutters falling off everywhere.....
I'll try to check back and see if you have anymore questions
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