I am in the market for a new TS and am considering the Craftsman hybrid model no. 22114. It seems to have everything I want. TEFC induction motor, cast iron wings, dust port, left tilt, easy off blade guard 1.5 horsepower, cast iron trunnions etc. But I purchased a little craftsman universal motor table saw 1 year and 1 month ago for $200 and it burned up on me this week. Looks like a bearing went bad and it overheated and burned the insulation. So I am a little suspicious about Craftsman. But even though it is out of the warranty (by about 4 or 5 weeks) Sears has agreed to give me $100 credit on this new saw. So I am seriously considering it. Has anyone had any experience with this saw or any thoughts at all that might help me.
Thanks, Frank.
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Frank, I have an older model Craftsman TS which I purchased three years ago.
It's equivalent is the 1 3/4 HP model just above the one you're considering.
My opinion is that you should consider the bigger saw (0922124). It has bigger tables, an enclosed stand, a Biesmeyer fence, a better blade, and more power.. all for just 250 bucks more.
The fence alone makes it worth the additional money.
But, beyond that, I'm afraid you will soon conclude that the saw you have in mind, ("built to handle medium size projects"), offers too little power.
Good luck with whatever you decide, Frank.
Bill
I'm assuming that you are happy with your craftsman. I am giving serious thought to your suggestion to upgrade to a more powerful saw. I am a newbie at woodworking but I retire in two weeks and hope to be able to spend more time at it. My goal is to become reasonably skillful and to make furniture, ie tables, bookcases, dressers, chairs etc. Up to now I have made mostly boxes (to learn the basics) and a cradle for my grandaughter. I am now designing an occasional table for my wife. I will probably never attempt to make any money at this hobby. Do you still think that I need the larger saw?
Frank
Frank, I got involved in woodworking three years ago. Buying my Craftsman saw was a big decision because I wondered how serious I would get about the craft.
My first project was Norm Abram's "Garage Workshop". (Plans and video available on the New Yankee Workshop websit)
My new saw handled those big sheets of 3/4" plywood like a champ. When I completed the project, working half days for about two weeks, I was amazed at my accomplishment.
Next, I made two desks for my home office. One is a computer desk the other is the return desk for writing. Then I began making cabinets of all sizes and types.
Then I took the big leap and bought a jointer and planer so that I could mill rough stock and begin making furniture out of hardwoods. I've made writing tables, chests, a dining table and assorted boxes.
I have also acquired a bandsaw, mortiser, router table, and many other power and hand tools.
If your interest in woodworking blooms, as mine did, you will be glad you got the bigger, better tablesaw. I love mine and don't see any need to upgrade. I have also made a crosscut sled and a panel cutting jig to compliment my saw.
Congratulations on your retirement and I hope you spend many happy hours learning and improving your craft, Frank.
Bill
Bill, I have one more question. Does your saw have the "soft start" motor?
Frank
No, Frank, it does not. I didn't even know such a thing was offered outside of routers. And I can't think why it might be necessary.
If you retire in two weeks I recommend you buy the biggest/best saw you can reasonably afford. You will likely need to upgrade later if you buy a "smaller" saw but if you go big you will never regret it. Don't rule out a used cabinet saw.
Enjoy your retirement!
Regards,
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Frank, given what you have in mind for the future (congratulations, BTW, on your retirement!) why not go for a true cabinet saw. While the new Craftsman saw seems to be a major improvement over their previous saws, the motor is still unproven, and for basically the same money, you can get a true cabinet saw with either a 2 HP Motor or a 3 HP Motor.
The rails on these Grizzly's may be a bit short, once you get into the real big stuff like bookcases, but you can upgrade later (or upgrade now, if you have the bucks). The Grizzly 1023 series is a proven machine. It's no contest in my book, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Do you like own stock in Griz or something? I bet the Craftsman is a better saw
"I bet the Craftsman is a better saw." I'll lay down $50, and we'll re-evaluate in, say, 5 years or so? While the new Craftsman saw is, by all appearances, a major step up and has some excellent features (believe me, if someone gave me one, I'd keep it) I doubt seriously it would stack up against a 1023S in either the short or the long haul, but most especially in the long haul. Given how close together they are in price, it's no contest in my mind.
As to why I would recommend the Grizzly -- it's the idea of overall value for the money spent. If someone's asking about whether to buy a Minimax or a Rojek, I'm not going to jump in an say "What about Grizzly?!" forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
So you are comparing a 2 or 3 hp Griz. to a 1 1/2 Craftsman saw? Do you think it would be a tad bit more realistic If you were comparing the G0444 or the G0575 .
If I was buying a Cabinet saw I would get the real deal - you know the one every one copies - Delta.
Hows the assembly go on Griz? Anything out of square? How flat is the table top? How about Vibration?
I have looked at the Craftsman and at Griz I would rather have the Craftsman Saw -looks to me that it is a better made saw that you don't have to tinker with.
I have used Minimax Stain and Finish but I havent a clue how to make a Rojek? Is it something you do in a boat?
Have you ever looked at or used a Delta? This is a decent little saw - ant it purdy!
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Model 36-675 Delta Industrial Model 36-675 10" Contractor's Saw¯ includes a 1 1/2 HP, 120V/240V motor; miter gage, see-thru blade guard with splitter and anti-kickback fingers, heavy-duty rip fence, Deluxe miter gage, 10" saw blade, table insert, arbor pulley, V-belt, two extension wings, steel stand and instruction manual.
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Ron, we are talking specifically here about the new Sears hybrid saw that (kudos to 'em) actually has the trunnion system mounted to the base (the way a cabinet saw does). Click here for info. It is not comparable to any contractor's saw and falls short of a cabinet saw -- it is a hybrid.
My "argument" (which isn't an argument, simply a suggestion) is that if someone's in the $900 range for a saw, they might want to consider the Grizzly 1023S or SL (and not the Z or ZX) because for approximately the same $$ they would get a true cabinet saw with a 2HP or 3HP motor, triple-belt drive, Beisemeyer-clone fence, extra-large heavy handwheels, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. What makes this especially pertinent when discussing the new Craftsman saw is that the 1023 series is a proven saw . Still nothing wrong with choosing the Craftsman instead -- especially if there's a rebate or sale going on. Whatever works.
Yes, the little Delta saw is pretty, but it's a Volkswagen -- we're talking about big sedans here. I happen to like my old (prehistoric) Jet contractor saw with cast iron wings pretty well. If I had the money to buy a Powermatic cabinet saw or a Unisaw, damn straight I'd do it. All depends on what you've got to work with and getting the most for your money.
Rojek is a European cabinet saw. Minimax is, well, all I can say is, I wish I'd never visited Tom's shop in Seattle. Visions, visions, visions -- huge bandsaw with guides the size of dinner plates (well, OK, saucers) and a Minimax combination machine that nearly gave me heart failure when I saw it. Holy Smokes!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Apparently, you haven't used the Grizzly saws so you're just speculating on their quality. Isn't this the same thing you're accusing Jaime of? The "real deal" and Jet, Grizzly, General, etc are made in the same factories in Taiwan. There's very little substantial difference between them. Do you own stock in Delta? They aren't made by some gnarly little machine-making guru in some far away place, so there's no point in worshipping the name. As far as copying, Delta made this style of saw first and now that the patents have apparently run out, what's the point of reinventing the wheel? They all work well and the only true test of their quality is to have them assembled by the same person, in a controlled situation, and tested at the same time, cutting the same piece of wood. Get my point? All of these companies are trying to make money by putting out a product that it basically the same. If we haven't used them all, whatever we say here is just our opinion. No more, no less. If you have 1000 people using the same pieces of equipment and they all make the same project, you won't have 1000 projects with exactly the same results. They will be different due to skill level, not the machines. Assembly of the saws? They're the same saw! The fit and finish has been beaten to death here. The companies spec the way they want the machine to be shipped and their QC people are supposed to make sure this happens. The base is the same, the table goes on the same way(only heard of one or two that had issues with the wings going on level and one was Dennis, who had major problems with his Delta cabinet saw), most likely the same motor, the splitter/guard is the same, the miter square on my Grizzly can be adusted to fit the slot(unlike the Delta square I bought separately for $65), etc. If the motor and pulleys are balanced, it won't vibrate. The pulleys are all made on a lathe, right? My Grizzly went together very quickly and easily. No problems at all. I did a tiny bit of tweaking and haven't touched anything in almost 4 years, which is how long I have had it. Nothing has loosened, broken, bent, died, smoked, or vibrated. You want a perfectly flat table? To cut wood, which can move the way it does with humidity changes, that's total futility. If it's within a few thousandths, it's going to be fine. The wood will change more than that if the wind shifts. We aren't cutting steel or making parts for aerospace. The Craftsman looks like a good saw. It has more anodized aluminum on it so it looks prettier. With impact, I would definitely rather have steel, though. If you have a Delta, great. I had a Delta and bought the G1023S because I needed one like that but couldn't see a reason to buy one of the other brands after comparing them. We had a Powermatic where I worked. We had to tweak that thing all the time. It vibrated. Loosened up constantly. Can't we, can't we all just get along?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Apparently, I have
Apparently, you haven't used anything but Griz or you would not rail on them so.The Craftsman looks like a good saw. It has more on it so it looks prettier. With impact, I would definitely rather have steel, though. anodized aluminum ? What you talking about the fence ?I had a Delta and bought the G1023S because I needed one like that but couldn't see a reason to buy one of the other brands after comparing them.What Delta did you have a Bench top shop mate?Comparing them? How did you do that - come hear and listen to everyone that owns a Griz or did you use them?We had a Powermatic where I worked. We had to tweak that thing all the time. It vibrated. Loosened up constantly. What was our Powermatic ? You know If you replace rotten belts and keep good bearings in them they Wont Vibrate.
How was it put before " Griz did not have the same Fit and Finish " that's just paint right . Ha!
Apparently, you haven't used anything but Griz or you would not rail on them so.
I still think the Craftsman is better than the Griz.
Why is it apparent that you have? I don't remember seeing anything about you having used anything other than a Delta.You obviously didn't read my other posts in this thread about my last saw and the one my dad had. I have never use a bench top model in my life. I know someone with a Jet, someone else with a Powermatic and yet another with a Delta. All cabinet saws. Since these are considered by many to be the three best brands of consumer saws, I wanted to try them. I already had my planer, so after checking the others out, I decided to try the Grizzly. Is that enough testing for you? I also worked for a company whose main business is cabinetmaking, so they have industrial saws. I used those saws and they blow away any consumer equipment out there. Also, when I worked at a lumber yard , we had a 16" Delta cabinet saw with a 20HP motor. If you want, I'll go there and get the model for you. I'll also see if I can go to my high school to get the model on that saw, if you want. The Delta with the aluminum top I used was the worst saw I have ever dealt with. I wouldn't judge the company by that, it was just the one saw. Belts and bearings- DUH! There are only a couple of rotating parts on a saw. Read what I said about our opinions. Again. Why don't we offer our opinions and experiences and leave it at that?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 2/13/2005 11:52 am ET by highfigh
I can't comment on the particular model Craftsman saw you listed. There are millions of satisfied Craftsman owners, including my father. My personal experience with a wide range of Craftsman products has been rather dismal. Their lifetime guarantee doesn't apply to commercial users. If you have never experienced a professional level tool, you won't know what you are missing. Before I spent that kind of money I would buy a Delta contractor saw.
For some reason, left tilt saws have become a must have for hobbyists. The one advantage is when ripping bevels with the fence to the right of the blade. Most right handers like to do miter gauge work to the left of the blade. When doing beveled cross cuts this tips the blade toward your fingers and puts the best face down. On cross cut work this means tearout on the face and maybe machine marks. If you want to rip bevels face up with a right tilt, just move the fence to the left side of the blade. Both right and left tilt will do the same work, just on different sides of the blade. The frequency of bevel work for most woodworkers is not very often.
With the exception of some of their wrenches, I'd rather throw the $100 out the window than to live with another Craftsman product.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000EI960/qid=1108048556/br=1-3/ref=br_lf_hi_3//102-0834970-4792140?v=glance&s=hi&n=229120
Hammer, want to pass along a little tip here: When you need to post a long link, look for this icon at the top of the composition box:
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It's used as follows: Highlight the appropriate text (such as "Click here for info"), then click on the icon. A pop-up box appears -- paste the URL into the pop-up box, click OK. Using this method prevents the link from taking over the frame-width on people's monitors and creating frustration. (See Nikiwood's posts in other threads). Takes a few seconds longer, but makes things easier for others.
If you're using a Mac, or browser other than IE, this method doesn't work. Nikkiwood uses the "tiny url" site. If you're interested, I'll find the info.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks for the info, Forestgirl, but I'm using Safari on an iMac. I don't even have two buttons on my mouse, let alone all that other PC stuff. Whenever there is a website address on a post, it appears in blue letters. I just have to click on it and it takes me to it. Are things different for PC users? Once I have clicked on the address it appears in red. I generally check my post in "Preview" before sending it, to see if a picture or address makes it OK. Maybe we all don't see things the same. In case you can't click on an address, can't you just copy and paste? I'm curious about what others see on this forum.In case there was a problem on this last one, Amazon.com has a Delta contractor saw with T-50 fence for $499. The T-50 is a better Beisemeyer clone with a rear lock for feather board and stock feeder use, and an extruded aluminum fence. I think it's easier to attach sacrificial fences to. The 1 1/2hp motor with double capacitors can be rewired for 220 which also adds 1/2hp. You can run a full set of stacked dadoes all day and cut to the full capacity of the blade without a whimper. I always notice that you are a fan of Grizzly. How many hours do you have on your saw? Do you have any issues running dadoes or molding heads? Will it run cool for an eight hour shift? I've been afraid of Grizzly based on some friends experiences but their saws aren't brand new models. Have they made some changes in the new models?Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hi Hammer, I'll take 'em one at a time.
Links: Yep, you're right, Mac users don't have the same options. The links show up the same for us. What I was getting at is that long URLs that go beyond the normal frame of the page make it difficult to read the message because it spreads out beyond the monitor's area. Nikkiwood brought this up recently (he's a Mac user also, BTW) and we discussed it. He can't use the technique I described, so he uses (and asks others to use) "tiny url".
No biggie for me -- I offer the suggestion for those who can use it. For those who can't, I can scroll over when needed.
Grizzly saws: My Grizzly tool is a bandsaw, not a table saw. I have followed reports on their cabinet saws with great interest though, and the 1023 series (most notably the ones with Beisemeyer-clone fences) seem to be solid performers. You might want to do an advanced search over, say, the last 6 months or a year. The newer saws (last few years) do outshine the old models.
Frenchy has a number of Grizzly tools, and uses them hard. You might want to email him and see if he has a cabinet saw -- I just can't remember. I know he has the 8" jointer. Certain Grizzly tools are very good values.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks for the explanation on going off the page. That doesn't happen with me so I wasn't aware that others may have this problem. Does the rest of my text run off the page also or just long URL's. Once in a while I get some large or highlighted text but everything stays in the frame. I have vertical scroll bars but no horizontal. I use advanced view, could this be part of it? I also use DSL, is the advanced view too much for dial up users?As far as the table saws go, are you saying that you recommend a saw without personal experience with it? Just based on another tool from the company and on something you've read or heard about? I generally don't comment on much unless I have some long term personal experience. It is hard to respond on new tools since models change all the time. Bad reputations do seem to stick to certain tool lines. It's unfair of me to say Craftsman is junk, just because all of their tools I have owned, have failed early or worked poorly. I am at the point where they would have to give me one, I won't pay for them based on past experience.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Not based on "something [I've] read or heard about it" -- based on numerous reports on 3 different forums, many of them from either professionals or paraprofessionals who use their machines hard. And I certainly don't recommend a cabinet saw based on my experience with the same company's band saw.
Hubby's hassling me to get going to breakfast, but I can post the links to 2 or 3 threads later that will give examples of what I mean.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I don't mean to be argumentative, but posting links to reports still constitutes "something you've read about", not actual hands on experience. I bought my Rockwell contractor saw in 1980 to serve as an on site saw. Within a short time I found doing the work in the shop was more efficient. I have other saws but the little contractor is comfortable and capable. I like being able to stick my big toes under the base. It has seen hard use for 25 years now and is still on the job. I haven't even had to replace the switch. The only major upgrades I have done are converting to 220, which I highly recommend, and putting some Browning balanced pulleys on. It's in a different class than my 14" Delta but the top is much smaller, the blades are less expensive and fixtures and jigs are easier to use. A great little saw that an owner won't have to upgrade as their skills and projects become more challenging.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer, when discussing these saws, I generally (can't say "always" without looking) state something to the effect that "there are many happy owners of this saw" or whatever. I'm just throwing my .02 in like everyone else. Have had numerous emails thanking me for input, and so far none bashing me because I lied to someone about this or that. I also refer people directly to someone like Frenchy, who has several Grizzly machines that he use hard and often. Or to the long Grizzly thread that was here a month or two ago (first-hand reports there also).
Any time a post alludes to my owning something I don't, I correct it, and I'm very clear with people who email as to exactly what my suggestions are based on. I see absolutely nothing wrong with suggesting to a shopper that s/he consider Model A or Model B (in their price range with features they seem to be looking for). I wouldn't do it if I weren't confident that, for that price, it's as good or better machine than the others that are under consideration.
If you find a post authored by me that says "You ought to get this" or "it's the only way to go" or "you're dumb if you don't buy X instead of Y." Let me know and I'll edit it. I doubt you'll find it.
[Everything after "hands on experience" seems irrelevant to our (yours and mine) discussion. I guess it was meant for the originator of the thread, to whom I apologize for stirring the pot so. ]forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
You bought your Rockwell in 1980. I don't think I need to tell you that a lot has changed in 25 years. The Rockwell/Delta I had was probably made in the early '50s. It's older than I am. They aren't made the same now. I worked with a Delta contractor's saw that had an aluminum top. Terrible saw. An aluminum top with a steel bar for the miter square is just a bad idea. There's no way the slot will stay the same size over time. A lot can be done with a small saw. My dad had a Delta with a jointer attached. He built the basement at home, some furniture and whatever else he wanted/needed. Being an 8", it was a bit small for full sheet goods, but for small sheets and dimensional lumber, it was great. That was from the '50s, too. I have a cabinet saw now and I can get close to it with my clown feet, but I may have adapted over time and don't really notice if I hit the base since I don't lean over the table if the motor is running.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Re: long linksI have been told that about 25% of the people on this forum use Macs. But unfortunately, the various formatting options available in Prospero's software are available only to Windows users -- including making long links shorter.In my case if someone posts a long link it runs off the frame; thus, if I want to read the post, I must scroll back and forth across each line of the post. Because of the hassle, I generally skip over that post without reading it at all. And since one cannot edit another person's post, I can't myself take the link and make it shorter. If you don't have the link option mentioned by Jaime, there are several sites that will perform the same function, including this one:http://tinyurl.com/At least on my machine, the preview function doesn't tell if a post with a link is going to run out of the frame. so if I see that it will when printed in the thread, I come back with the edit function, and copy/paste the long link thru Tinyurl.This is an exceedingly minor issue in the larger scheme of things, but if you want your posts read by all, going through this extra step is something you might consider.
Thanks for the info, Nikkiwood. As I have responded to Forestgirl, I don't see that problem either in the preview or the post. Everything is in the frame with this last post but the URL does take up a line and a half. Does the rest of my text run off the page for you? I wouldn't bother reading any that do, too hard on the eyes.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Some URLs seem to be able to "wrap" -- break where needed. Others just go on forever, LOL. Your's was the former I guess.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
<<" Does the rest of my text run off the page for you?">>Yes, it is not just the link, but every text line of the entire post. Perhaps others don't have this problem because, for some reason, the links will not "wrap" when they come to me. More and more posters are providing links in their posts, so this is getting to be more of a problem for me.
Thanks for that Nikki. wanted that facility for ages.
Aside from political stuff, the most contentious debates around here concern table saws -- brands, contractor vs. cabinet saws, etc. It seems to me you are being unduly harsh with Jaime. If you want to be dismissive of her points because she has not had "hands on" experience with a given saw, I think you are missing the point. She has been a careful reader of and an active participant in these threads for years. And because she is both smart and perceptive, she has formed impressions on all this that are well worth considering. When you read one of her machinery comments you are getting the benefit of her direct experience, but more importantly, you are getting the fruit of the knowledge she has synthesized after reading probably thousands of user comments over a long period of time.
I hardly meant to be harsh with Jamie. I have read many of her posts and appreciate her view on many things as I do with other posters here. I simply asked if she had any experience with the saw she seemed to be recommending. The short answer is, No. Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Yeah, I sensed that, and I certainly don't want to pick a fight here. But the point I was trying to get at is that personal experience with a given tool is interesting, but not necessarily definitive -- unless you have also had sufficient experience with other similar tools, allowing you to make a valid comparison. But someone like Jaime is worth listening to because, over time she has informally gathered user feedback on the gamut of this stuff. And she is adept and perceptive enough to distill all that info, and summarize it in a very useful way in these threads. In a very real sense, I think her comments should often be weighed more heavily than the person who has owned only one or two machines, and doesn't have much experience with others. In other words, I regard her as the best substitute we have for Consumer Reports -- who unfortunately, does not test table saws.
I agree with the things you have said about Forestgirl to a certain point. If you don't run a saw all the time and put it through it's paces, you don't know which questions to ask. You can read all the books you want and hang out on website forums, but that doesn't make you an experienced woodworker. Anybody can look up information and pass it along. Understanding the pertinency of that information takes long term experience with the process. Jamie just put up a post about her band saw shaking like mad. It was only the bolts in the stand being loose, she concluded. I have the feeling she is actually going to get to follow her own advice, "check out Grizzly". She is going to find out if the wheels are balanced, if the settings hold, if the pulleys are out of round, if the drive belt is tracking correctly, if the blade is properly tensioned, if the tires are any good, if the bearings are shot, if there is shaft run out. When she has learned all these things she will have much more to say of value concerning the tool. I hope for her sake it is something minor.As I have said, I value her generosity, cool thinking, warm personality and intelligent take on things. But I do weigh her tool advice on the basis of experience.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer, if I rely a great deal on information from experienced woodworkers I'd think it has to be worth something. By focusing on "the short answer" you are simply not taking into consideration (a) under what circumstances I offer the Grizzly option or (b) the way in which I phrase my suggestions (and there's probably a "c" and "d" but I'm really getting tired of this discussion).
I don't feel any need to go through the 1019Z -- the only time I've had trouble with it was last week (whenever) and as soon as I tightened up the bolts, it was back to normal. It cuts clean, no blade drift/lead and resaws like a champ. Whatever small mechanical discrepancies it may have, they sure as H#*@ don't affect the work it produces.
OK, I've got movies with the grandson, and Valentine's day tomorrow, so I'll pretty much let others carry the banner for a couple days. IMHO, Hammer, you're being a bit short-sighted. For whatever reason, you've got a burr in your butt about this. I do, however, appreciate the compliments.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Awww, shucks, thanks Nikkiwood. I try to do my best! Happy Heart Day, by the way.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'd rather throw the $100 out the window than to live with another Craftsman product.
I do that with VEGAS.. I save up a few grand.. Burn it in the fire place and saves on 'AIR FARE!'
I bought the 22124 and am happy with it. I left it at 110V since I don't run it all day and it doesn't seem to overheat. 110/220 single phase is all about current anyway. Power is the same and 220V, properly wired is not cheap. My shop floor is concrete and I will not use power tools w/o GFCI and 220V is another $100 vs $10, plus the double pole breaker. Initial cost was not a concern as I shopped General, Grizzly and Delta, but enclosed cabinet was, for dust collection and trunnion mount. What sold me was the 'try it for 30 days' or bring it back. No one else made that offer. Second was the 2 year in shop service agreement. Then there was free (rebate) delivery right onto the shop floor. The Biese fence had a problem, but a call to the 800 number on the manual had a new one on my porch in 3 days. Plus with the sales and Craftsman Club discounts I paid $725 before tax. I would not be happy with the other 2 offerings though.
Thanks for all of your responses and advice. Based on what everyone has said I think I will go with a bigger saw than I originally planned on but I am not sure which one. I like Delta but think I might be happier with a left tilt. (Oh well, thats a whole different discussion.) Thanks again
Frank
Frank,
As you've already done some work on a "smaller" saw, why don't you try to find a cabinet saw you can "take for a spin". Make a few cuts and play with it a bit; then imagine it in your shop! If you have the budget, spring for the cabinet saw; if not, find a used one! LOL
Regards,
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Frank,
I hate to do this to you, but it's just not reasonable anymore to look at TS without considering and eliminating the new Saw Stop cabinet saw (I think that is what it's called). The Saw Stop claims to make it very difficult, if not impossible, to remove fingers, etc. with the saw blade.
Perhaps there is information out now that challanges Saw Stop's claims, but from what I've seen it appears to be a top line TS with a fairly inexpensive add on feature...and if it is effective, you will certainly recoup your initial investment in peace of mind as well as resale value.
Frank,
If this is to be a serious hobby or part time profession after your retirement you might want to consider contractor saw versus cabinet saw. This piece I wrote some time ago may help:
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/con_vs_table.shtml
I used a universal motor saw for a couple years. It was horribly inaccurate and left ragged cut edges. All the vibration and the screaming universal motor made it pretty frightening to use. I decided to ditch it after the second set of gears started to go bad.
The next dozen years I used a Delta Contractors Saw. That, or a similar one from another respected brand, is IMHO the minimum acceptable saw for fine woodworking. It did a fine job but seemed a little shaky when slapped with a large sheet of plywood and tripped out sometimes when cutting a lot of thick hardwood. The motor/arbor carriage was nicely made but would deflect a little in some cutting situations. Somewhere along the way I fitted a Bies Comm fence, which really raised the saw's overall performance and my satisfaction. I finally decided that I would stay with woodworking as serious hobby, and that I really would like to work with a saw that is safer, more powerful, more solid, and more precise.
Last December I went to the cabinet saw, a SawStop, and am glad I made the change. A heavy and well made cabinet saw isn't required for high quality work, but is a real pleasure every time you use it.
You are, of course, the only one who can make the decision. The Sears has been well reviewed by people who bought it. It appears to be a hybrid saw instead of a true cabinet saw. You should expect some of the cabinet saw advantages (dust collection and easy adjustment) but won't get all of the advantages (power and unshakeable mass). Remember that it's mostly an aesthetic and personal decision.
Take Care, Dave
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