Replies

1. 
   IanC | Apr 20, 2003 03:57am | #1

   My son's 50's bungalow in Denver has hickory floors.  While they are beautiful, they squeak and groan like crazy.  I suspect this might be due to an installation problem but am not sure.  Maybe they didn't put felt on the subfloor.   My son layed on his back in the crawlspace and drove in  about a million screws and it did absolutely no good.  Hope someone has more specific advice for you here or you might try over at Breaktime in Fine Homebuilding. 

   Ian Cummins

2. 
   RW | Apr 20, 2003 04:25am | #2

   I'll throw in. I do a lot of sub work for a couple of builders here. Kind of the lesser Diety of all things Waranteed for that magical first year. In the last couple of years, I've probably stepped foot on at least thirty hickory floor. So what you have going for you there is they seem popular and you might be able to sell the stuff for some dough.

   I've also had to explain to about 30 separate homeowners that a wood floor can buckle and twist and creak and split and . . . on several of these homes, the initial installer has gone back in the name of reputation and attempted a fix of some sort. Fillers, refinishing in a couple of cases, predominantly to little success. Hickory is a wonderfully strong wood, and for some folks, the look is to die for.

   What I'm seeing across the board is problems that I might have attributed to installation error were it a one or two time occurrance. But in virtually every instance, the HO is unhappy and in my opinion, the floor looks like heck. Floors installed by the same people in the same timeframe in a different species, such as oak, look fine. I've seen splits running the length of a 17' kitchen 1/8" wide. I really don't know what causes it. I know that I meet with the builders periodically and tell them the status of complaints, what's fixed, what's going back to the sub, and my opinions on some of what I see when they're months into the next batch of homes. My first successful venture at swaying one builder was getting him to swap his trim carpenter out for someone competent, and my second is getting him to either quit doing hickory floors or make the HO sign a waiver for them.

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters

3. 
   DavidxDoud | Apr 20, 2003 04:55am | #3

   Well,  a couple of thoughts -

   come down before it comes down on us. 

   if the tree is close to your house,  the odds of there being metal in the bottom 6' is high - something to discuss with your sawyer,  and to understand the consequences of hitting metal (my sawyer charges $30 (the price of a blade) if he hits metal)

   I have a small amount of experience with hickory,  as I sawed two trees last year and this week took the wood to a shop to be processed into flooring - as I talked to the shop owner,  he made comment to the effect 'sure am glad that's pignut hickory,  not shagbark...'  questioning him about that comment,  he related that shagbark is more difficult to work,  harder,  stiffer,  more splintery,  etc - - 

   so... - - there ya go - be aware - be careful - I sure did enjoy burning the hickory tops this last winter - regards,  DOUD

4. 
   jonsherryl | Apr 20, 2003 04:42pm | #4

   Tick, hickory has some physical properties that make it well suited for use as flooring. It has excellent wear resistance, it's strong and it has a very attractive, moderately ring-porous figure. The problem is it is exceptionally unstable and prone to distortion (cups twists and bows.)

   When used in parquet type flooring patterns, where the pieces are small, the wood's instability is less of a problem. In other flooring systems, it's important to make sure the boards can float (expand and contract) without heaving or buckling. Hickory will also perform better, if you use only narrow widths and/or quartersawn stock, but many of the appearance benefits for using hickory in the first place are lost in this trade off.

   One other limitation of hickory is that it bluestains (spalts) easily...so, you wouldn't want to use it in an exterior application...or even in a interior one where it will be getting a lot of wet traffic (entryways, bathrooms, etc.)

1. 
   finishcarp | Apr 20, 2003 05:17pm | #5

   Well.. thanks for the info

   If I were to cut it into flooring by the sounds of it 4" would likely be max width with 1" being the thickness.  Would there be benefit to cut the stuff to 3/4" to finish at 1/2" ? - would that ease the situation of cupping, warping?

   I just hate the thought of burning this log- it goes against the woodworker in me and the dutch heritage...

   Another option is to just cut the tree into lumber and get it dried and save it for further use-  would 1" material be the best overall use of this particular wood?...(is 2" a good option?)

   By the way- this subdivision was cut out of a wooded farm and I REASONABLY believe the log to be free of metalllic debris

1. 
   jonsherryl | Apr 20, 2003 11:57pm | #6

   Tick, milling the hickory to something thinner than 4/4 won't help in a flooring application...In fact it would probably make the cupping problem worse. Quartersawing it would do more to prevent distortion than anything else, but as I mentioned earlier the figure in quatersawn hickory isn't anything special.

   As for milling the stock to heavier dimensions (8/4), if you plan to air dry it, you'll more than double the drying time and also increase the risk of radial checking. Usually, when I have a log milled without a definite future purpose for the wood, I opt for a mix of thicknesses...Something like: 80% at 4/4 and 20% at 8/4...But it depends upon the kind of woodworking you usually do. The above ratio works out pretty well for most furniture applications; tables, case goods, etc. If you do a lot of turning, you'd be more interested in heavier thicknesses.  

2. 
   DavidxDoud | Apr 21, 2003 12:20am | #7

   one factor that you easily control will help with cupping - that is to place the heart side up - - the tendency for movement will then be for the middle of the board to raise,  which is much preferable to raised edges -

   whoever mills the flooring needs to be clued in so that during the planing/tongue&grooving this aspect is considered -