I have some 12/4 and 8/4 pecan and shagbark hickory that I milled from logs several years ago. It has been air dried to 15% MC. I want to build a workbench out it but I am not sure of its suitability for that purpose. Does anyone have an opinion on this?
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
I think it would make a Great bench- hard- heavy- tough what more could you ask for.
Are you going to make a shaker style bench? That is what I want to build when I have the room.
Have you the book The Workbench Book by Scott Landis ? If not I think you would really like it- full of wonderful benches & ideas the shaker bench is my favorite.
I would think a hickory bench would last forever
Ron
Who Ever Has The Biggest Pile Of Tools When You Die Wins
Ron
I do have that Work-Bench book you spoke about and have read it at least 20 times. Just spent about an hour browsing through it before I left the shop. It is a wonderful book that you can pick up and re-read many times. Each time you will catch a detail you missed from all the other times.
Good luck with that Shaker bench. The way they add the drawer storage under-neath makes those very study and that's a first priority on any bench, IMO. Hang in there on the space thing. My first shop was about 12' x 8'. Is was very cramped, but I just pretended it was cozy. As long as I could work with the tools, it didn't matter. ha..ha..
Evening...
sarge..jt
jim
You can make a bench from any wood really. The hickory is extremely hard, but it is a stringy wood. Test plane some and you will see there can be an occasional problem with tear out planing. Also, if I were going to use it or any other wood, I would try to get the moisture content 12% or below before I started the project. This would help reduce chances of major movement down the road.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do...
sarge..jt
Thanks Sarge and Ron for the input. I do have Landis' workbench book and I am planning to bulid the Fortune/Nelson bench with some variations(lefty, small shop). I will definitely dry the wood more before construction. Sarge, it sounds like there is a danger of grain popping up with hickory. I suppose I could reduce that by finishing it.
jim
I used to work with hickory a lot. The biggest problem is the occasional piece that just tends to splinter. I don't know how to read the grain and make-up of it well enough personally to determine when it will and when it won't. John Arno explained it a while back as to what conditions in a piece will lead to it, but I can't remember what they were exactly. Unless I remembered exactly, I won't attempt. Maybe Jon will see the post and jump in.
Wouldn't hurt to put some finish on. I'm sure you've had one of those 1" to 2" splinters embedded in the old hand at some point. BTW, I prefer needle-nose pliers and a commercial razor blade to get them out. They can present a challenge. ha..ha..
Good luck and post a pic of it down the road...
sarge..jt
Jim, hickory is plenty strong enough for a work bench...and, overall, it's not a bad choice.
The two primary negatives are that it is a rather unstable wood and it is semi ring-porous. But there are a lot of worse choices you could be making. For example, hickory would be a better choice than either ash, or oak (red or white), because it is both denser and less ring-porious than these other woods.
Personally, I think...all considerations taken into account...the best wood in the world for a work bench (especially the top) is a South American species called pau marfim (Balfourodendron riedelianum, a member of the citrus family; Rutaceae.) It is a very fine textured, blond wood that is slightly denser than our native hard maple. Of our native species, I think hard maple is the best and a very good second choice might be black locust...The Europeans use beech...which is a pretty good choice, because it is diffuse-porous and about as dense as our hard maple, but it's not as blond and it's a little coarser textured. Also, it's even less stable than hickory.
...So, again, if you've got access to a cheap source for hickory...you could be doing worse.
Jon
Thanks for the reply to Jim. I knew the calvary would come to the rescue. I agree about the un-stableness of hickory. That's why I put emphasis in an earlier post about making sure to get it a lot dryer than Jim has it now. That will go a long way in keeping it as stable as possible. Still a good choice at the price he paid.
I suppose if we really were smart, we would design a work-bench made of a block of phenolic or plastic. Contact Metro-Moulded in Milwaukee and get a piece of quality, hard-impact rubber about an inch thick and mount that on top of the non-warp base. Drill some dog-holes and were set for 15 years or so. When the rubber finally becomes brittle, just replace it.
But, we're Wood-Workers and we ain't that smart. And we just like the feel, smell and mysterious unpredictability of wood more than plastic and rubber. Why?... I don't have a clue. "Just because" is a good enough answer for me. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Sarge, I'm just trying to help out here on wood selection...personally, if you're the typical, modern woodworker, using mostly power tools, I think you'd have to be sillier than an outhouse mouse to build a traditional (18th century) work bench.
Those traditional work benches (works of art though they are) were designed to fascilitate hand tools, whereas in the modern shop setting the bench is primarily an assembly surface. My work benches are all totally non-traditional...a design I've developed over the years to meet my needs in the way I work with wood...and, unfortunately, to accommodate my somewhat nomadic career. They are knockdown (modular) benches with maximum work surface and scads of drawers...and they are made, primarily, out of plyscore. I've got three of them and I don't have $50 a piece in any of them. I suppose, if I had to make one at today's prices, it might run me maybe $80 to $90 to build.
Jon
I have to agree. I just built a new one from scrap as have picked my hand planes back up an started to use them heavily, so I do need a strudy old style. I gave the one it replaced to my BIL who is a machinist but has gotten interested in WW. But, I do have three assembly tables that fit the bill you spoke of. The bases on those are rather heavy duty but the tops are made from laminated ply. Flat is what I'm concerned with there, not brawn.
If you haven't seen it already, flip to my thread from several days ago and take a look at the bench. Got $270 in it and $200 of that is vises. The thread will explain. "Work-Benches- Beauty or Beast.
Have a good evening, Jon...
sarge..jt
I just clicked over to the photos in your work-bench thread. That's a beautiful bench, Sarge...and it should be just about ideal for hand planing...if that's really what you want to do.
You must be younger than me. The last piece of "equipment" I installed in my shop was an old lounge chair (seriously). It finally dawned on me that my knees and back were hurting so bad lately because I was forever standing around trying to figure out where I'd misplaced the last tool I was using. Now I just sit down until it comes to me.
It's amazing the synergies you discover when you install new equipment. For example, this lounge chair really compliments the beer cooler I put in just a few years ago...to think I've been at this craft for more than 50 years and I'm just now catching on to the finer points.
Jon
Ha..ha.. Ya da man.. Probably a few years younger and still like the feel and sound of the planes. I have never gotten away from blocks and a small shoulder plane even after I went power. They just do certain things that are hard to duplicate with a machine, especially on end grain. Recently I had the urge to be "born-again" with the smoothers, jacks and jointers.
Same with scrapers, chisels, rasp, cabinet files, etc. There are just certain times when they are the tool for the job. Kind of like a set of hole-diggers. They're just there napping and one day you need to set a fence-post or mail-box post. You can dig it with a spoon, or rent or buy an expensive power assist hole drill. But instead you grab the hole diggers and are finished in about 10 minutes. Then they get hung back up till that next time.
I do still use and enjoy the hand tools. Definitely not a traditional purist, but use them in conjunction with the power toys. If I get tired planing, I just stop. The nice part about being a hobbyiest is you don't have deadlines to meet. If I'm tired or not in the mood, the project will still be there when I decide the time is right. I control the the design decisions, tools, maintenance and the work flow. If results are poor, and it won't be because I got in a hurry to meet a deadline; I accept the personal blame. ha..ha..
Regards and thanks for the bench compliment...
sarge..jt
Trying to catch my breath here.....first the Red Sox loose...now I find out Joe Arno thinks workbenches are silly....its been a rough week...whew!
tell is ain't so joe....
Well BG, my Grandfather Joe has been dead for almost 60 years...and it's a bit eerie that you would resurrect his name in conjunction with this topic. He was the last Arno to own one of those traditional (antique) benches. I forgive him though, because he was a cabinetmaker trained in 19th century London and didn't know any better. He was a master with hand tools and especially skilled in carving...but late in his career even he began to use a few power tools...mostly home made, belt driven, special purpose stuff he designed strictly for speeding up repetitious processes and for saving labor. I think he actually felt guilty using them.
...So BG, my earliest woodworking memories are steeped in the old ways...and it sure cured me. I can still hold my own with hand tools and use them when they are the fastest (or only) way to accomplish a task...but I don't go out of my way to break into a sweat.
If you're a hand tool purist, a traditional bench is a perfectly appropriate and rational way to go...along with psychiatric counseling.
Jon,
Sorry for the name change..as I said, it's been a bad 7 days.
We're coming from opposite ends of the spectrum with regard to woodworking. About 3/4er's of what you've forgotten I'm just trying to discover. I never knew my boiler maker grandfather and my farther worked two jobs most of my childhood. When I was growing up I'd go down to the cellar and look at my grandfather's tools..but that is as close as I ever got...
In many woodworking situations, I have found, that not knowing how to do it by hand first makes using the power tool much more difficult and perilous(sp?). For instance, I first slapped a couple pieces of wood in a cheap dovetail jig and worked the variables until I got good reasonable outcomes. Then I bought Ian Kirby's book and practiced hand made dovetails...I'm much better at setting up the jig and have much better control of the outcomes. Now I'm willing to take that example too far...I'm willing to forego the wonderful learning experience, I'm sure, that would come from riping stock with a handsaw....lol. My point is, the workbench makes alternatives to power tools possible...and helps improve the outcomes...even with the power tools. Another important point for the inclusion of a workbench, removing saw marks.... there is hardly a faster way to do that chore.
Putting the workbench issue aside, it's really quite amazing how much things change over a fifty-sixty year working career...especially if you go back the last three 50 year periods. Imagine the perspective of someone who compared 1850 with 1900 or the world around him between 1900 and 1950...to say nothing of 1950 to 2000. The skills that have come and gone since then...buggy whips, adjusting carburators, using a slide rule. I read an article not long ago about the development of a 'state of the art' woodworking shop by Steinway to build piano's in NYC at the turn of the century..1900. They have changed the shop very little since then. For your grandfather, however, the development of the electric motor changed just about everything....as the puter is changing ours.
Another reason for the workbench: got to box door cabinets over it to hold all the tools...hardly ever misplace a tool...lol
Edited 10/21/2003 6:30:35 AM ET by BG
John,
Could you comment on the use of birch for a benchtop? I bought out a retiring furn. maker's stock of wood, and there is a bunch of 12/4 flame grain birch, of good length and width. This is not a wood that I use often, or really ever. I was thinking it might do well for a benchtop, and would appreciate your comments.
Alan
Alan, birch is comparable to hard maple in density, but it's slightly coarser textured. Also, if it's flame grained (probably sweet birch; Betula lenta) it won't be as blond. The ideal features for a wood used as a bench top are: High density, fine (diffuse-porous) texture, low shrinkage (meaning good stability) and light color.
Again, birch wouldn't be the worst choice for a bench top...but I think the primary negative here is that using beautifully figured, flame-grain birch for this purpose is a bit of a waste...unless you're into designer benches, like Sarge...Personally, when it comes to work benches, function trumps beauty...In fact, as with any tool, I think function is really the only thing that matters and getting the most function for the lowest cost is the key objective.
Jon
"unless you're into designer benches like Sarge"
Sorry, the fish aren't biting today. Try again just before a weather front moves in. That sometimes is just the trick that loads the boat. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Jon,
Thanks for the info. I wouldn't have bought this for the purpose, but have it by accident, and so was thinking of using it. My other bench is 12/4 hard maple, which is excellent from my point of view. Anyone have some hard maple in 12/4 they want to trade?
Alan
s4s
I would let it dry properly and "go for it". If the movement gets extremely radical, just put it on the lathe and turn a gaint base-ball bat.
Post some pics down the road and give a report on how hickory holds up on a work-bench. I think it'll be fine if you let it dry properly. I have been questioned on some traditional rules I break just to see for myself. My theory is, "it's for free with your labor. You have everything to gain and only labor time to lose. Lost labor time could be rationalized as a wealth of experience working with hickory. Either way, you win!"
sarge..jt
Why is ring porous a disadvantage for a workbench?
Dunc, the biggest problem with using ring-porous species for a bench top that will experience a lot of wear is that the porous earlywood tends to tear out and eventually the surface becomes rippled or uneven. also, ring-porous woods have a greater tendency to split along the annual rings, if they're exposed to constant abuse.
A bench top made from a coarse textured, ring-porous wood also gets to be annoying in that it is harder to keep clean. It tends to collect dust and grime a little more readily...and it's an important advantage to be able to keep a work surface as bright and light in color as possible, because it reflects light better and provides a more contrasting background to dark things (like small nails and brads.) It's easier to loose a brad on a dark surface...and unfortunately the way you usually find them is when they've scratched the surface of what you're working on.
Makes sense. Thanks.
Jon,
I'm curious. Where would one source pau marfim, and at what approx. cost? Also, why do you prefer the light color in a workbench? I find a dark surface shows it needs cleaning pretty quickly. Is the color choice due to the opposite in light timber?
Thanks,
Greg
See message #22.
Stupid of me. Still curious as to sourcing.
Greg, I'm sorry I can't be of much help on a source for pau marfim. I haven't bought it in upwards of a decade...But you may be able to locate it via WoodFinder. It also goes by its Argentine common name of guatambu. This species is native to southern South America (southern Brazil and Argentina). It's moderately plentiful and has been touted as a substitute for North American hard maple. Since we don't need a substitute for one of our most plentiful hardwoods, it hasn't been a major import up here...with most of it going into the European and Asian markets. If you can find a source, it should be just a tick or two more pricey than our local hard maple (might even be cheaper than hard maple is out on the West Coast)...but, again, I haven't bought it in years...Since I don't build designer benches, like Sarge. :O)
As for why blond woods make better bench tops, it's because they reflect light better and lighting is extremely important in the shop. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's too easy to lose a small nail or brad on a dark work surface...and not find it until it has scratched the surface of something you're working on.
Jon
"Since I don't build designer benches like Sarge".
The old tried and true "Lucky 13" top-water plug has had considerable success locally in the past few days. You might give one a try. Very conservative plug compared to the new fangled stuff. But I was always taught that the advanced gadgets don't mean a thing. "It's all in the presentation". ha..ha..
Don't forget to pack vienna saugage, beenie weenies, sardines and saltines. It just goes with the sport. :>)
sarge..jt
Sarge, what's a "Lucky 13" top-water plug?...Anything like an ordinary suppository? I've used those before.
Edited 10/25/2003 1:15:43 PM ET by Jon Arno
Jon
Well, sorta...... It's just usually inserted into a larger opening before it, like the suppository preforms it's duty.
sarge..jt
Just want you to know you're getting advice from the best around here. Sarge has become the undisputed expert on workbenches - I'm betting that if he were so inclined he could give the Landis book (which is great) a run for its money. Print out his posts and save them.
Mark
Wow!! Thank you very kindly Mark, but that Landis book will hold it's own. It's a great documentary, so to speak. I have gone completely through it on numerous occasions and still find something I missed on previous occasions. There are a lot of great ideas there that are shared. I think by taking the one's that are useful to your particular bench and in-corporating your own, a great custom-built-for-you bench can be more than a dream. It's just up to you to take the time and effort to make it a reality.
To re-pay those kind of compliments, I will buy a home in your state; register to vote and send in an absentee ballot if you happen to be running for anything. Seriously, compliments to a hobbyiest are the only reward they recieve. I hope everyone kind of keeps that in mind with their future dealings with others as you have.
Again, thanks for the un-deserved comps...
sarge..jt
Edited 10/23/2003 6:25:37 PM ET by SARGE
I appreciate being privy to all of the valuable experience you guys obviously have. You've just just about talked into using maple at least for the top. Is there any reason I couldn't still use hickory for the base? My Scots Irish blood won't let me totally give up on using that nice cheap wood. Also does anybody know how to get their hands on a sliding tail vise that Veritas made until a few months ago? I hear its a pretty nifty device but for some reason they dropped it from their product line.
jim
The maple top with a hickory base is an outstanding decision. I just built a work-bench top from maple scraps and used cheap recovered Doug Fir for the base. Mixing the woods is not a factor to be concerned with. Just get the moisure content close to each other and make the joints strong. Keep in mind that maple has movement too. Even $2000+ Ulmia Ultimate work-benches tops will move over time and have to be re-flatted down the road. Wood moves, that's a fact.
Cannot help on the Veritas vise. Call Veritas on the phone and see if they still have inventory or a distributor that does.
Here's a pic or two of my new bench. This will give you an idea of what to expect from mixed top and base. I choose the twin screw vise as it fits more of my needs than a tail. That is a personal choice.
Best of luck.. Shout if you are in need...
sarge..jt
Nice looking bench! Your design? I'd like to hear some details about it.
jim
This is my fifth personal bench. Made it from 6" to 10" maple scraps finger-jointed together to form a core. Sand-wiched them and made the base from a single 30' Doug Fir beam recovered from a 100 year old warehouse about to be torn down in downtown Atlanta. The scrap was to be thrown away or burned. I do a lot of stuff with scrap these days.
Yes, I design all my own things. I have used the same basic design base I came up with 20 years ago with the first bench. 5 of my own and either built or collaborated on about 15 more for friends, locals, etc. The same base with a few modifications were used on all as it was a solid design from the first.
I use a whale-boat keel down the center to tie and help support the top. The joints are all 1 1/2" x 3" through mortice and tenons pinned with the exception of the bridle joint at the top of the legs where the cross runners sit in the saddle and feee-float. The bench is actually 3 components that free-float and tie together to act jointly as a team. Kind of like and independent suspension. All separate... All one.
Will post a pic of the base to give you an idea. I am into industrail strength as you will see. If you want to know the whole story, go to the archives and seek the thread, "Work-benches-Beauty or Beast". I started it with the bench. I think it would be worth your time to go dig it up and read the entire thread. You may pick up something you want to in-corporate into your bench. Maybe not.
Let me know if you have specific questions that thread covers. Hopefully you know how to find it in the archives. It is from about 2 weeks ago. If not, FG and others smarter than I with computers can get you there. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Jim, good thinking. We're really getting into the subtle short strokes here...but functionally, a hard maple top with hickory substructure should be superior to either a solid maple or a solid hickory bench. You'd be using each wood in applications for which they are almost ideally suited.
jim
The pics posted last nite were from memory of which was best suited to show contrast of five taken in over-cast. My memory is not as good these days. ha..ha..
What Mr. Arno posted about both woods being used for their suitable purposes prety much says it all.
sarge..jt
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled