I’ve bee commissioned to do a coffee table and the customer wants a distressed finish. I’m following an article in FWW from a woodworker in the southwest who first burnishes the edges, beats it up a bit and then applies a dark stain to light wood. Next he puts down a sealer-I used shellac. Then I put down a contrasting color-I used blue (final coat will be yellow). Next he buffs the finish to give it tooth and applies premixed hide glue.
Ah….this is where something has gone astray. He says give it about 30 minutes to dry-I gave it 45 and it was still tacky. So, I moved it out of the shop to out in the sun and today it was 95 degrees. Three hours later I returned home and it had bubbled, crinkled in spots and…..it is still tacky. How can I possibly put a final coat of latex paint over it. Did I do something wrong??? I am going for the crackle look with the hide glue. Also can’t find anymore of the premixed stuff so I ordered from Highland Hardware something called “Old Brown Glue”-is that the same stuff-will it work for the same purpose?
Replies
Did I do something wrong???
Was your shellac dry?
What hide glue did you use? I have seen this "distressed" look done a few times and they always used the Bordens brand hide glue. I assume any of the off the shelf premixed hide glues would work though.
Doug
I had let my shellac dry overnight in a warm shop with good ventilation-I scuff sanded it with 220 the next morning before applying the hide glue.
Remember that basic hot hide glue is a liquid at about 140 degrees and then first gels as it cools and then finishes drying as the moisture evaporates. Liquid hide glue has been modified to remain liquid at lower temperatures, but is still affected by higher temps. When you put the piece in direct sun on a 95 degree day, the surface temperature of the wood probably soared--likely well above 140 degrees. Bad things were the result.
Old Brown Glue is a version of liquid hide glue. I haven't used it.
I would be concerned about latex paint as the top coat on a coffee table. Ordinary latex paint often dries so soft that objects left on them for a time--coffee table books?--can stick to the surface. At the least, go to a top of the line acrylic. The craquelure can also be created with milk paint.
In any event this techniques requires a lot of testing since to me, the few times I have gone for the look, it also mattered how I held my mouth.
I know I increased the temp of the surface but after well over an hour it was still tacky in my shop with the door and windows open in the same 95 degree day...any idea why it wasn't drying???
A humid 95 degrees may be sufficient retarder. You might try a sample of the glue on a board, and take it into an air conditioned space. Another thing to check is whether there is a sell by date on the glue? I think experimentation is in order.
A day later when I went to the shop to check on my piece of scrap the hide glue had finally dried in the 95 degree weather just fine. I applied the final coat of latex and like the article promised, the crackle started almost immediately. I applied some watco dark satin wax finish, wiped it off and then applied some paste wax to finish it off. Looked great.
....HOWEVER, the client loves it except she really wants less crackle. I love clients-I do. Now, as I was reading the article, the author states that if you thin the hide glue the crackle will be more, less if its thicker. On my practice piece, I applied it straight out of the bottle without any thinning. What do I do to get less crackle, buy non mixed hide and apply a really thick coat??? Early this morning I applied some Old Brown Glue to a scrap-tomorrow morning I should know if the crackle effect is any less. Maybe just find a new buyer for the table...can anybody shed any light on the topic of crackle??? Anybody know anything about the effects of the crackle stuff you buy?
Hmmm...I'm using Franklin's liquid hide glue right now on a project. It touts its "long open time" which is true, but also translates to "takes forever to dry" After a full day, a mortise and tenon joint was not secure, and a drip on the back of the piece was still tacky. On the good side, you should be able to clean a lot off with water, and the residue may give you just what you need.
Pete
I'll give it a try-I'm using Titebond premixed...
Sounds like the bottle is out-of-date. Check it.
No date on bottle.Pete
Franklin hide glue has a date on every bottle. It's a bit hard to find/read but it is there.
Go to their website.
Edited 6/21/2006 12:37 pm ET by BossCrunk
Yup, turns out the date was there, though almost too faint to read. My bottle is nowhere near expired, so I'll reiterate my experience that the stuff takes a long time to dry! It does eventually. I notice a drip on the bottle stays sticky for days, so perhaps a thick coat on a nonporous surface is an issue.Thanks!Pete
Edited 6/21/2006 2:01 pm ET by PeteBradley
You've got a bad batch. A drip or two on exposed wood ought to be glass hard by no later than the next morning.
Try Old Brown Glue from Patrick Edwards,,, same thing,,, lovingly made,,,,,
Edited 6/21/2006 2:25 pm ET by BossCrunk
Pat Edwards' Website (in case you don't already have it on file):
http://home.pacbell.net/ebeniste/gluepage.htm-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I contacted Franklin and their opinion was that there was likely nothing wrong. They pointed out that in high humidity the stuff may stay tacky for a long time and that the behavior of material on the surface doesn't necessarily indicate a similar problem inside a good joint. I chiseled apart my test piece and sure enough there was a good dry bond.Pete
Thanks Pete,,, good move getting it straight from the horse's mouth.
are you hyding a pun in there somewhere?
Rather than reinventing the wheel, Mcloskey has some weathered crackle glaze (#6450) that I have used several times . real easy and fool proof...
Bud
EDit Do a sample whenever you try some of this kind of stuff...(Dont ask why I suggest that!!LOL)
Edited 6/19/2006 3:45 pm ET by seb
can you control the amount of crackle with this stuff? The customer wants less crackle than what I achieved with hide undiluted.
Good Question,,,,The things I used it on were "crackled" and the amount was not a problem...IE I did not try to change the amount it crackled,,,
I just re-read the directions, and it said "a heavier application will yeild a heavier crackle pattern"
BudAnother edit,,This stuff is not an exact science...You need to make a sample for your customer and make her aware "it will be pretty close, but not exactly like this" You are getting hammered unfairly on this deal...JMHO
Edited 6/22/2006 7:48 pm ET by seb
I'm just getting started in this business and pricing my time continues to be troublesome especially with some customers. This is a coffee table with a glass top, frame is made from poplar and I turned the legs from maple and did mortise/tenon joints. Inside I made french curls consistent with a picture she gave me from who knows where-it was a lot of work for $900-450 of which was materials-especially with all the time I'm spending on trying to get the crackle "just right".....
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