Replies

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 20, 2003 01:16am | #1

   woodhobbyist

      I just bought a set of Ashley Iles from:

   http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com

      Excellent. I have never had but used the Two-Cherries. Also excellent. Everyone seems to like their Japanese chisels also as I don't own those either.

      In  other words, shop around for a good price with the limits you mentioned in mind. There are several excellent chisels on the market and I consider it a buyers market.

   Good Luck...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   forestgirl | Nov 20, 2003 07:23pm | #5

   Sarge, are yours the "American Pattern Beveled Edge Chisels" from Ashley Iles??  I read about them this month in one of the mags, sounded like a great addition to the line.  Oh My!  I just looked at the web site you posted, and those are out of stock.  Most of the bench chisels are out too.  Looks like Santa's planning a fine Christmas for a whole bunch of woodworkers!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 20, 2003 08:56pm | #7

   FG

      Yes maam. The American Pattern Chisels were reviewed on this months addition of Poplar WW. I had been aware of Ashley Iles for quite a while as they make excellent carving tools from feed-back from friends. I don't carve.

      Poplar WW did a 20 chisel review back in 01' and the Iles' were the majority of reviewers choice. The only thing they didn't like was the fat handles as standard on American butt chisels. The American pattern was modified to have smaller, tapered handles. They are about 7" long up to 1" and then get a bit longer. Extremely well balanced and the steel is Rc 61. Very well made with Bubinga handles.

      For small to medium hands (perfect for women) these things are great for small, precise work. I have a set of older Sorby regular bench chisels which are longer and can reach deeper. The longer chisels give up a bit of control on smaller joints thought. (Paring chisels are even longer than standard and rarely seen used anymore, mostly boat-builders---avoid these) That's why I got them.

      If you do not have a good set, I would recommend the slightly longer bench set. You can get into deeper joints and with concentration they are fine for smaller work. The shorter, more precise set (American Pattern) could be an add-on down the road as the standard set would be more verstile in a one-chisel-set shop. Just my views, others will vary. ha..ha..

      Yep, they are quite often out of stock. Very popular, but call if in question as they arrive almost weekly according to what I was told by the company in NY that distributes.

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   jazzdogg | Nov 20, 2003 09:59pm | #10

   Sarge,

   After you first let us know about these chisels I checked out their website. Alas, it says many of the Ashley Iles chisels of which you speak so highly, including the sets, are out of stock.

   Thanks for posting and making us aware of these chisels - I'm in the market for a set of high-quality "shorties."

   Paul

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 21, 2003 02:55am | #14

   Paul

      And they are very high quality shorties. The nicest ones I've ever handled. I'm on vacation and will call Tools For Working Wood personally to mention they have been discovered with Ashley Iles and short-handed to accomodate the demand. Will let you know what they say.

      BTW, the straight Hirsch that were mentioned are nice also. They are well made and reasonably priced. The Two-Cherries are a bit steep for me. They are the standard length, are metric sizes (those Germans will never learn, ha..ha..) and have octangular horn-beam handles. I used a friends and the only thing I didn't care for was the octangular handle. In fairness, this is a personal "feel" thing. "One man's poison is anothers cup of tea". I could get used to them with a little use, I'm sure.

   Take care Paul...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   jazzdogg | Nov 21, 2003 05:04am | #18

   Sarge,

   Thanks for your reply - as always you're a true gentleman!

   I purchased a set of Two Cherries a few years ago and they are a very nice, indeed!

   I still use my 30-year-old (Sears? Stanley?) bevel-edged bench chisels for utility chores, but I reach for the Cherries more often than not.

   The mortising chisels comprise an odd assortment of Ohio Tools and other brands I've picked up at used tool swapmeets over the years and I'm far from having a complete set -  each one was bought for the project du jour.

   A friend has a marvelous set of walnut-handled socketed butt chisels that I drool over whenever we work together - there's nothing quite like a well-tuned shorty for performing the tasks that require precision and finesse!

   Have fun - and thanks again,

   PaulWhether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 21, 2003 09:51am | #23

   Paul

      The American Pattern chisels are socketed. They don't have big bulbous handles like a butt chisel. These are a few modifications Ahley Iles did on feed-back from consumers as how to make them better than their original design American butt chisel.

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 21, 2003 10:17pm | #27

   Paul

      Go over to the thread on Ashley Iles, Out of Stock? for the answer I mentioned.

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   vanderpooch | Nov 22, 2003 08:08am | #32

   I've seen the Mifers a few times. I think, for some reason, that they are Spanish? Don't know why that popped into my head and I can't remember where I saw them. Doh!

   Edited 11/22/2003 12:09:31 AM ET by VANDERPOOCH

2. 
   ian | Nov 22, 2003 07:50am | #31

   Sarge

   why does a mortice guage have two pins?  So you can set it to what ever width of mortice chisel you have (prior to quality controlled mass manufacturing a 1/2in chisel was whatever width the blacksmith hammered out – 15/32, 7/16, 33/64, 9/16, etc).  Who cares if the mortice is metric, just cut and trim the tennon to fit.  If you want to be able to drill out most of the waste just buy one or two metric drill bits !

   :)  

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 22, 2003 06:48pm | #33

   ian

      That's a correct and excellent point to make on the mortice chisel. I cut the mortice first and then over-size the tenon which gets trimmed down to fit. Metric on a mortice chisel is really irrelevant, even though some might argue about the drill bit issue. The same argument could be presented on bench chisels.

      Personally it makes little difference to me. Give me over-size, under-size, warped, twisted or bowed. I will take what I got and make it work. ha..ha..

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   ian | Nov 23, 2003 12:57am | #34

   Sarge, I know what you mean, but that BIL of yours sure makes it a bit easier  :-) 

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 23, 2003 03:42am | #35

   ian

      If you compared my BIL to a gold strike, he's been the mother-lode. A lot of folks are not so lucky as to place something in his hands with instructions of "this is what I need" and it happens on some of the most modern metal machining tools on planet earth.

      You could call this guy at 3 A.M. in the morning and ask him to help with something. Just have the coffee ready when he gets there. Yep, I'm very lucky indeed. Of course you realize, this was not even a consideration when I was dating my wife. Nah, I'm just to dumb to have thought of something like that in advance. he.....

   :>)

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Jimma | Nov 20, 2003 01:34am | #2

   I have a set each of Marples (medium quality, but OK for much work) and Two Cherries. The latter are good quality, but you need to be aware that these and other brands that come in metric sizes which you may not want and isn't always disclosed in the sales info. Both will work fine if you've sharpened them well keep them honed. If you're using them for making mortices, the metrics won't match standard drill sizes -- but close. If you have a Woodcraft nearby, or can order from their catalog, take a look at their "Swiss Made" chisels which are made by Pfeil. These are also good, but pricey.

1. 
   Scrit | Nov 20, 2003 03:41pm | #3

   Does it really matter that they can come in metric (or for that matter inch) sizes? My experience is that there is wide variation in how wide a 1/4in chisel is, no matter how old or new...

   Scrit

1. 
   Jimma | Nov 20, 2003 05:44pm | #4

   I haven't had that experience, but no matter. It mostly depends on what you're going to do with the chisels. My comment referred to the use of chisels in paring the end of a mortise that was drilled out using a common-sized twist drill. Other uses, like paring down sides of a dovetail, that don't need to match ASA sizes won't matter.

3. 
   AlanTurner | Nov 20, 2003 07:37pm | #6

   My 2 cents.  Shop the used tool places for your chisels.  My view is that the older chisels are of equal or greater quality.  You can find very fine chiels for about $15 @.  You might look for Stanley No. 750's (bench chisels), TH Witherby, Jas. Swan, Pre WWII Buck Brothers.  There are others as well.  I don't have a matched set, and could care less about this.  I have seen matched sets go on Ebay for rahter staggering prices, but one at a time, not too bad.  Yard sales are the best bet of making a bit of a steal.  Rust is largely irrelevant as long as the back of the chisel is not pitted.  New handles can be turned easily.  I just cut some mortises by hand with my 5/8" Witherby, and it does not even need honing.

   You might even bump into a fine old plane or two in your travels.

   Alan

4. 
   RevTed | Nov 20, 2003 09:45pm | #8

   New set of six Marples (I'm not the seller)--

   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2360359636&category=20762

   Ref to retail--

   http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/pages/091.cfm?&gid=5694FD58-0973-4526-9631-24C49523D67A&site=grizzly

5. 
   stephengaal | Nov 20, 2003 09:55pm | #9

   I have two sets:  Marple Blue and Robert Sorby.  My bet is you can buy both sets for $150.00.  I have the Marples sharpened at a 28 degree bevel for chopping out dovetails, etc, and the Sorby's at 25 degrees and use then just for paring.  Works for me, although I would like to try a super hard Japanese chisel.

   Stephen J. Gaal

6. 
   wjcargill | Nov 20, 2003 11:02pm | #11

   Woodhobbyist,

   I started serious woodworking last year and went through the same dilemma. My experience with chisels up till then had been with the standard Marples line (unbreakable handles). My findings were that any chisel can be sharpened and honed to a very keen edge, but only the premium models can hold that edge for any significant amount of time.

   I had a size gap in my set and bought a Hirsch (cousin to Two Cherries?)chisel to fill that need. I have been extremely pleased with its performance and it will hold an edge probably 3-4 times longer than my Marples chisels. The feel of using it is quite different from the standard bevel edge chisels but don't equate weight to performance. I am in the process of replacing all my Marples chisels.

   The best part is that Lee Valley, right here in Canada, distributes them at a very affordable price. Check them out.

1. 
   Joecraftsman | Nov 21, 2003 01:14am | #13

   Wjcargill,

   I agree with you about the Marples blue,  I've worked with them at my former employer's cabinetmaking shop and I found the steel to be rather soft they didn't hold an edge long; a few cuts in a piece of oak and that was it!  I didn't know Lee Valley caried the Hirsch, they are on the website not in their catalog so thank you for the info.  Right now I'm deciding between Hirsch and Ashley Isles but since the latter seem to be out of stock I'm leaning towards the Hirsch they have an RC61 rating.  I already have a set of bargain chisels that I bought a few years ago at a stock closeout sale from Lee Valley, and now I want a higher quality set.  I'm not sold about looking for used chisels mainly because I can't know if the steel was overheated during sharpening thus removing the temper, and I'd like to get the entire set right away I don't want to take a couple of years to accumulate a complete set.  I know the high end Japanese chisels have harder steel but I saw prices of 800-1200 in the Dick tools catalog (phew).  I'm still open to comments if anyone knows of a better brand than Hirsch or Ashley Isles.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 21, 2003 03:13am | #15

   woodhobbyist

      I have never shopped for used chisels, but have been given a few. I had never thought of it in over 30 years of thinking about these kind of things, but you made an excellent point about the possibility of them being over-heated. There is no way to really determine that.

      I have a very long Greenlee 1/4" mortice chisel that was given to me. It won't hold and edge. The blade is about 12 inches long. Great for leverage, but the chisel is about 17" altogether. Tomorrow I will cut off about 4" of the forward blade and re-set a new 35 degree bevel. I have never seen and old Greenlee that wouldn't hold at least a respectable edge. I think I know why this one won't now. With any kind of luck, the dis-temper was contained in that first 4". We shall see tomorrow.

   Thanks for the "heads up"...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   BG | Nov 21, 2003 03:32am | #16

   Sarge,

   I hope you luck out on the Greenlee.  I picked up a 5/8" Firmer chisel which is about 17" long and heavy for a $1.  The point is holding well...I don't think I can hit this monster hard enough for a good test....lol

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 21, 2003 04:22am | #17

   BG

      Was it a Greenlee? I remember when you could get them for about $3 and I thought that was high. They made pretty good tools and were in all the old type hardware stores as there were not WW specialty stores.

      I have a draw-knife (think it's Green-lee) and a couple of other assorted goodies. And your right about the "giving a lick'in and keep on tick'in" thing.

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   BG | Nov 21, 2003 05:06am | #19

   Sarge,

   I can't tell the make..it was very rusty..I cleaned it up but all I can read is made in USA.  I have used it on some red oak and it appears to work well...anyhow, for a buck, after its obiviously tough life, it deserved a better ending than it was receiving at  the bottom of an old tool box..

   ...who was that masked man.......High ho Silver

   Edited 11/20/2003 9:13:41 PM ET by BG

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 21, 2003 09:59am | #24

   BG

      It could be a Greenlee or older Buck Bros. I have a Greenlee draw-knife that is marked Greenlee. I have a Greenlee Tenon Saw ( 99% sure, it came from the same hardware store years ago that pretty much carried Greenlee as their main line) that is not.

      For a $1 and it works, I suppose it is ir-relevant though. ha..ha..

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 11/21/2003 2:29:56 AM ET by SARGE

4. 
   BG | Nov 23, 2003 05:13am | #36

   Sarge,

   It turns out the chisel I have is an Underhill.  Looked them up on the web and apparently they were up in New Hampshire....before they were bought up.

2. 
   JohnWW | Nov 21, 2003 06:04am | #20

   Sarge,

   Loss of temper in a chisel from inept grinding is usually limited to just a fraction of an inch behind the tip and usually the steel is clearly discolored, there is no need to cut 4 inches off the chisel to correct the problem.  If the entire chisel is too soft, it can be retempered fairly easily with a propane torch for the heat source, the procedure has been written up in a number of woodworking magazines.  

   A good chisel is pretty hard to saw through, how were you planning to slice four inches off the Greenlee?

   John W.

   Edited 11/20/2003 10:34:41 PM ET by JohnW

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 21, 2003 10:28am | #25

   J W

      Thanks for the tip. When I got it years ago, it was pretty rusty. Soaked it in kerosene and flattened the back. Ran a bevel and use it for outdoor projects ( decks, etc.). Did not even look for dis-temper as I was not too knowledgeable of metal in those days. I have other chisels so it was immediately destined for junk projects.

     How will I cut the chisel. Now that's an easy one for me. I won't. My BIL is a shop foreman at the Delta Air Lines machine shop here in Atlanta. He also has a small shop at home. I learned about three years ago that cutting metal of that nature is not a cake-walk.

     I was modifying a Ryobi TS I bought junk into a Euro cabinet saw and attemped to make a riving knife from an old wasted table saw blade. I drew out the pattern on the blade and decided to cut a rough outline with a hack-saw. Then I would let my BIL take it and machine it to thickness and exact shape. Right!!

     Two hours latter and three new broken hack-saw blades produced a cut in that blade about 3/4". Why I waited that long to determine enough is enough? Can we say determined and stubborn. Perhaps stupid might enter the equation also. ha.ha..

     The blade went directly to him for the appropriate metal equipment to "get the job done quickly and efficiently". Lesson learned and much wiser about metal-working these days than I was at that time.

     Thanks for the info on how far dis-temper goes, that was a question that would have been ask tomorrow.

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

7. 
   Napie | Nov 21, 2003 12:01am | #12

   Shop the flea markets and look got good old used ones.  My old Buck, Stanley, and other off brands are at least the equal or better of any new chisel I have ever bought, (and most are socket handle style, the ones needing new handles are a great place for exoitc hardwood scraps on the lathe).  And for $150.00, you can put a nice set together, and have enough left over for a nice dinner.

8. 
   JohnWW | Nov 21, 2003 06:33am | #21

   Wood Hobbyist,

   Unless you are sure you will need a full range of sizes immediately, it might be better to buy just one or two chisels of the size and pattern you are sure you need for the work at hand.  That way you'll be able to afford the absolute best and you won't have to worry about the budget since one or two top quality chisels will (probably) come in at less than $150.  Take the money left over and invest in a good sharpening system if you don't already have one.  Having a good sharpening set up is easily as important as having good chisels, actually it is more important. 

   I've seen a lot of people buy sets because they were getting a better price, but then not use half the tools.  Better off to buy exactly what you need, a little at a time, as you need the tools and not get caught up in the false economy of buying sets.

   By the way, the pattern of a chisel is equally as important as the width, the best 1/2 inch wide chisel for mortising is going to be quite different from the best 1/2 inch wide chisel for cutting dovetails.

   John W.

9. 
   Telemike | Nov 21, 2003 07:33am | #22

   I have a set of german (?) chisels called "Mifer" brand. I bought them about 20 years ago as a set of 6 for the (then) exorbinate price of $70 or so. They're much better than the cheap hardware store chisels I use for home repair.

   Has anyone ever heard of this firm? Are these chisels any good? I've never owned any other "good" chisels (boxwood handles, not colored plastic like my "old house" chisels) and don't have a benchmark to compare them.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 21, 2003 10:37am | #26

   T M

      I have never hear of them, but I bet one of the guys from across the pond has. If you asked them over there, I have a feeling they wouldn't know what Buck Bros., Greelee, Miller Falls, etc. is either.

      Maybe someone will notice the post from across the pond.

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

10. 
    eddiefromAustralia | Nov 21, 2003 11:14pm | #28

    Here's an unbiased review - two cherries vsw sorby vs homemade

    Cheers,

    eddie

1. 
   BG | Nov 22, 2003 01:04am | #29

   Eddie,

   Terrific post.  Have you looked into making chisels from the CPM 3V steel?

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Nov 22, 2003 04:08am | #30

   Hi BG,

   Not yet - The chisels I've got work fine enough (old Bergs and Marples rectangular firmers)

   I've made a few blades out of O1 for scrub planes, etc...,  but tend to buy M2 aftermarket blades - I get a fair bit of work between sharpenings.

   Cheers,

   eddie