Replies

1. 
   BG | Aug 30, 2006 03:22am | #1

   Beo48,
   You may have noticed this web site has a subscription service with some excellent information available. You asked on another post about the use and maintenance of scrapers...I think there is two video clips in there from last year that addresses the scraper issue very nicely. I think it would be an excellent resource for your students.
   Also, and I don't know much about this topic, but at the turn of the century (1900)there was a Swedish (I think)training method that was adopted by many if not most of the schools. In addition to a progression of projects it focused on proper body position for execution....producing at the end of the process a person with skills. I wish I could remember what it was called...

1. 
   RonK | Aug 30, 2006 03:58am | #2

   Sloyd

    

   If you do a search on the term you should find out some information. I believe FWW had an article in one of it's early issues concerning Sloyd possibly in conjunction with North Bennett Street School which I belive used this in it's early days

2. 
   9619 | Aug 30, 2006 04:15am | #3

   Beo,
   Interesting message. Elementary and High School teachers are my heros. You guys are overworked and underpaid, and for the most part underappreciated. Your message showed that you really think about your students and you care about them. I just added you to my list of heros.

   I do have a question for you. You found that taking away the power tools and focussing on hand tools increased their skill levels with hand tools. The question is: is the focus on hand tools best for the majority of your students. Personally I love hand tools, but I am 63 and use them for fun, not to make a living. I believe that most high school students will learn more that they can use in real life if you focus on power tools. Everyone needs to learn how to use the basic power tools to install things around the house. Many will use power tools to make simple furniture. Some will get jobs in construction. Statistically speaking, I would guess that few if any of your students will ever get into "fine woodworking" either as a business or as a hobby.

   If high school students could take two courses in woodshop, then maybe the second should be on hand tools, but even then, I believe most students would get the biggest benefit in terms of things that they will actually use in real life from a focus on power tools. Certainly those who go into construction need the power tool experience.

   The real question of what to focus on has to be based on an analysis of what the students could get the most out of. You might want to do some research on past students, and on your current students. You might also want to consult the PTA, etc.

   It might be fun to do a two year woodshop course with your students with the goal of having each turn out a Chippendale highboy, all made using hand tools. I certainly would like to take such a course. But I can't imagine that would be the best use of shop time in most high schools.

   I'll probably suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, and of many Knots denizens for taking this sacrilegious position. My suggestion is based on the need to use school time in the best interests of the students, and not on what would be the most fun. Certainly no one would be hurt by a class in hand tools -- except if they later find out that they could have used other experiences.

   I took two years of French in High School and Three years of Latin. I have to tell you -- I would have been better served by learning Spanish.

   I will be happy if my message causes you to think about the problem in terms of what most of the students could profit most from. I hope to hear back from you after you get some more replies and have had a chance to think about things.

   Enjoy. Welcome to Knots. It's a great place.
   Mel

   Measure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   jazzdogg | Aug 30, 2006 06:32am | #4

   Hi Mel,

   Interesting post. I'll say this much (for now):

   At school, we have approximately 150-200 new students (of the 900 students enrolled in our woodworking program) each semester, virtually none of whom possess any hand tool skills. Were I to guess, I'd say perhaps 75% have had some experience using power tools, including a great many bad habits.

   Safe work habits are imperative, whether you are using hand tools or power tools, which is one of the primary reasons our first course emphasizes the safe use of the power tools to square, dimension, and profile hardwood.

   That being said, I don't see power-tool skills as making quite the impact hand-tool skills do on a student's ability to internalize lessons and transfer them to other woodworking arenas.

   I've seen countless students who spend a semester or two processing hardwood with power tools and are essentially clueless when it comes to rudimentary skills like reading the grain; many of them are like deer in the headlights of an oncoming vehicle when it comes to developing muscle memory, reading wood, and drawing inferences about the behavior of wood, finishing, sharpening, etc. - largely because they've been able to get away with using machines as instruments of brute force instead of becoming intimate with their tools and wood - as one must to achieve decent results when using hand tools.

   I would argue that both power- and hand-tools are necessary components of a well-rounded woodworker's arsenal of skills in the real world. I would also argue that using hand tools instills deep-rooted lessons, skills, self-confidence, and sensitivity to tools and materials in ways that power tools are less likely to convey.

   Ask me again tomorrow, and I may have a completely different answer, but that's the way I'm feeling tonight - after the seventh day of a new semester.

    

    

    -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

1. 
   byhammerandhand | Aug 31, 2006 03:30am | #16

   Jazzdog,I am so happy to hear your approach. One of the things I do is judge 4-H woodworking projects at the state fair. A few years ago, we instituted a "skills project" that each competitor must complete in a timed situation, with skills appropriate to their level of project.It is interesting to see a youngster come in with a perfectly joined cedar chest that he/she (and parent) made who can't cut a straight cut in a 1x4 with a handsaw in 10 minutes.On the other hand, I spent most of the day repairing new furniture piece(s) that failed because of grain run out on a structural component. Don't know, don't care, boss pays 30 cents a day and I got a quota.

3. 
   EdHarrison | Aug 30, 2006 06:47am | #5

   You may want to allow your students to earn extra credit by volunteering for Habitat For Humanity on Saturdays.  If they go work on putting together a HFH house, I bet they come back to class with all kinds of stuff they are interested in learning more about.  They will also gain a new appreciation (hopefully) in the importance of using tools accurately and doing accurate work.

    

1. 
   9619 | Aug 30, 2006 01:44pm | #6

   Ed and Jazzdogg,
   I second Ed's motion -- have the students get extra credit for volunteering for Habitat for Humanity. There they will get real hands-on experience in practical carpentry. Jazzdogg - If all high school students took one semester of "cooking", would we teach them the fine art of making the sauces of fine French cuisine?? I think not. If High School kids get one shot at woodworking, it should focus on "carpentry", not "fine woodworking". If the woodworking class for high schoolers is there one Shop Class, then more kids will get more "life skills" by focussing on using a circular saw to cut 2x4s in framing a room, than by learning to read the grain on a piece of hardwood for purposes of hand planing. Now, if the woodworking class is given as an elective in Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, in Alexandria, VA, where virtuall every senior is a National Merit Finalist, and 100% of the kids go to college and then most go to graduate school, my suggestion would be to offer a course in "Fine Woodworking".I am not an elitist. I believe that High school should bring the most benefits to the most kids. Across the entire US, most kids (including girls of course) could use a high school course in automotive upkeep, and one in personal finance, and one in carpentry.Enjoy,
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   jazzdogg | Aug 31, 2006 04:21am | #17

   Jazzdogg - If all high school students took one semester of "cooking", would we teach them the fine art of making the sauces of fine French cuisine?? I think not. If High School kids get one shot at woodworking, it should focus on "carpentry", not "fine woodworking".

   Hi Mel,

   Hmmm... I see this as a bit of a false dichotomy: were I to offer a cooking analogy I'd want those students to learn basic knife skills, the four basic "mother" sauces, understand the differences between cooking and baking (recipes versus formulas), and have a firm grasp of basic ingredients and seasoning  - instead of learning to re-heat packaged meals in a microwave oven - even if their parents re-heat packaged meals at home. With those kinds of basic skills, students will have the understanding and skills to produce tasty and nutritious meals at minimal cost using basic ingredients (or to enhance prepared foods and make them look and taste more "home-made").

   When I got my first apartment as a teenager, I had a few C-clamps, some screwdrivers, a hammer, a few chisels, an Arkansas stone, a dovetail saw, an electric drill, and not much else; and yet, I was able to make things for myself (without disturbing the neighbors). As my earnings increased I was able to acquire additional tools and was better able to use and maintain them because the foundation skills were in place. I didn't even have a place to put a table saw until after I married.

   I was also able to prepare meals from raw ingredients and feed myself (and later, my wife) for less than the cost of take-out or prepared meals, despite the fact that I didn't own a Cuisinart or other fancy appliances, because I'd learned the basics and had a saute pan, sauce pan, a chef's knife... as the years passed the meals got better not because I'd spent a lot of money on kitchen gadgets, but because I was able to leverage my basic skills and tools to advantage. I didn't prepare French cuisine when I went camping with my buddies, but they all wanted me to cook because I would prepare a good meal, inexpensively, using basic tools and ingredients.

   I'm not sure the ideal approach to teaching woodworking exists - because I haven't seen a one-size-fits-all approach that works. What I do know from personal experience is that whenever I've been able to help illuminate the light bulb over a student's head and help them "grok" woodworking on an intimate level, they smile more, are more willing to embrace "craftsmanship of risk," and seem to be better able to draw cross-disciplinary inferences and apply what they've learned on a more intuitive level. These moments seem to accompany the thoughtful use of hand tools far more often than power tools.

   Edit to clarify: I don't consider hand-tool skills exclusive to "fine woodworking" or basic cooking skills the sole province of those interested in preparing Haute Cuisine.

   -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

   Edited 8/30/2006 10:53 pm by jazzdogg

1. 
   9619 | Aug 31, 2006 07:15am | #18

   Jazzdogg,I don't disagree with anything you said. I believe that my message was so long that my main point was hard to find. Put simply, I feel that the content of high school courses should be based on the needs of the community, rather than on the interests of the teacher. I am far more interested in fine woodworking than in the building and construction trades. However, if I were to teach in a high school, I would have to put my interests in the background, and focus on the course content, which I would hope is defined by the needs of the community.I believe you were focussing on "how to teach", while I was focussing on "what to teach". No matter what you teach, the course content should insure that the basic skills which form the building blocks for more complex skills should be taught first and taught well. So I don't really think that we are all that far apart. That would have been more obvious earlier if I had not been so wordy and such a obtuse writer. Enjoy.
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

4. 
   jimbuis | Aug 30, 2006 01:49pm | #7

   Dennis,
   Greetings from a fellow Industrial Arts teacher. I don't teach construction, but rather what I would term basic woodworking, 6th through 12th grade. My school is here in Tokyo, Japan, so teaching about construction would not fit our situation well.

   I must say that I agree with you about the importance of focusing on handtools. My high school students use power tools quite a lot, but if we had the time I'd rather focus on handtool use. I have so many kids who lack the rudimentary skills such as which way to turn a woodscrew to start it into the predrilled hole or which way the cordless drill must turn the bit to drill a hole. My beginning students often have the drill running backwards and cannot figure out why the drill is not drilling. If they were starting out at least for awhile with an old egg-beater handdrill, they would understand such things better.

   The notion of having kids using a table saw who cannot by hand crosscut a straight line is offensive to me. Yes, on a construction site they need to know power tools. However, a site foreman will NOT be impressed with a young craftsman who does not know how to use a handsaw or clawhammer, because s/he only knows how to use a circular saw or nailgun.

   IMHO,
   Jim

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/30/2006 6:51 am ET by jimbuis

1. 
   9619 | Aug 30, 2006 04:45pm | #8

   Jim,I agree with you fully. A construction forman wants a person who can make a straight cut with a hand saw, and can use a claw hammer. No argument there!My message was for the teacher to find out what the students and the community need, and work toward that. It was my guess that more kids would get more use out of learning basic carpentry than out of learning "hand tools for fine woodworking". My mind wanders a lot. It ocasionally pictures extreme things. When thinking about teaching high schoolers about "fine woodworking", my mind pictured Derek Cohen and Adam Cherubini teaching an inner-city high school class in fine woodworking, and demonstrating how to hone a five micron secondary bevel on a blade for use in the large Lie Nielsen shoulder plane. I would love to have Derek and Adam teach me how to really hone a nice secondary bevel for my use in my hobby. However, that just doesn't seem like the stuff that an inner city high school class could profit most from. I did some student teaching in an inner city school in Erie, PA, and came to a firm understanding that I did not know or understand the real needs of the students in the class. (I also realize that not all high schools are "inner city".)It is probably the role of the school administration, and not the teacher, to insure that the classes and the class content is right for the community. So the point I am raising is more for them than for the teacher. In general, and put simply, I believe that most people would be better served to learn some good basic carpentry (including hand tools of course) before getting into the more sophisticated use of hand tools for making fine furniture. Of course, I would be thrilled if every high school graduate in the world demonstrated fine woodworking skills to such a high level that Adam and Derek would dub them "Masters", and then they could each go out in the real world and make a great living by having their own shop and doing pieces on commission.Enjoy,
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   doorboy | Aug 30, 2006 05:11pm | #9

   Mel,
   While I can't disagree with anything you write, I do think that we need to be flexible enough to know what the "basic life skills" in our region are. For example: In South Carolina, the furniture factories may be in need of young people to take on some of the "fine woodworking" skills in their shop--whether or not they know about framing a house. In the Gulf Coast region, there may be a need for careers in general carpentry and/or restoration. In the West, it may be timber framing houses.
   If we, in fact, are talking about public schools, we should be tailoring the course syllabus to the community opportunities. That way it seems like the taxpayer will get more bang for his buck."Kinky for Gov. of Texas"

1. 
   9619 | Aug 30, 2006 05:42pm | #10

   Doorboy,I fully agree with you on both of your main points.1) you said I should be flexible enough to take into account the needs of your community. If you reread my message you will see that I said that. "My message was for the teacher to find out what the students and the community need, and work toward that." So we are in raging agreement.2) Kinky for Gov of Texas.
   ABSOLUTELY! It is rare that I find anyone that I completely agree with. You are one of the rare ones. Thanks for replying.Enjoy,
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

5. 
   gb93433 | Aug 30, 2006 06:17pm | #11

   I taught high school and came to the same conclusion as you. I went from a power tools based class thinking that students need to know how to use power tools. What I found out is that if a student knows how to select lumber and use hand tools well, the rest is easy. Many carpenters know how to use power tools and rely so much on them but do not know how to properly use hand tools. Many times I have cut joints by hand faster and better than anyone could ever do with a power tool. If a joint needs to be fit better I use a hand plane and am done with a few strokes.

   Years ago a contractor hired me to do some work on a job because he did not have anyone on his crew who could do it. One of the joints was a case where I had to miter a 3/4" thick board with a ½" thick board on a 92 degree corner. He saw me pull out a handsaw and cut the miter. The contractor saw me do that and then criticized me for not using a power tool to do the job. So I asked him how he would have done it. He started to give an answer and then realized it would have been more work to do what he thought was good.

   Teaching the proper use of hand tools cuts the sandpaper cost and power tool maintenance almost to nothing and the accuracy greatly increases.

   As part of the course I taught for the top students they were taught how to sharpen hand saws, chisels and hand planes. They were also taught how to saw and lay up veneer along with a number of joints including hand cut dovetails. After they made their first hand plane and used it the look on their face said everything. That kind of thing ended a lot of discipline problems.

   When I went to a program of teaching the proper use of hand tools the satisfaction and attitude of the student went way up. They went from making average looking furniture to making excellent furniture that won first place every year. Every year my students took the first three places in competitions. That gets the attention of people and employers. A reputation is also established.

   Where I live now has been the largest growth area in manufacturing in the US. There are two major cabinet manufacturers here. Teaching the use of power tools does no good in preparing students for employment there. Those manufacturing facilities do their own training their way. It is highly unlikely that a school could afford even one of the machines. One of the biggest mistakes I see in furniture making and building construction is not using proper methods and poor selection of lumber and its installation.

   Knowing when to use a power tool and when to use a hand tool is particularly important. It is not an issue of one versus the other. Most of the time I use power tools to save time and energy. But when I need an excellent job then most of the time I finish the job with hand tools.

   If I can do the highest and most demanding level of work I can also do a lower level. In carpentry and furniture making there are times when the work demands the highest level. Most of the time it is just average. When the most demanding work needs to be done they call in the person with the skills to do it. Why not teach at the highest level? Why teach what everyone else does?

   For many many years the trends have shown that there is a huge demand for the highly skilled and unskilled. The problem is that so many are semi-skilled and find themselves without work when they get older. Today many people are without work because of outsourcing. Highly skilled work is not outsourced. Typically the person who is highly skilled finds greater job satisfaction than the person who is limited by his lack of skills.

1. 
   beo48 | Aug 30, 2006 07:16pm | #12

   Wow!

   What a lot of great comments!  To clarify a little on how I came to the conclusion... I started swing a hammer for my grandpa at age 14.. you know those contractors... knows how to do everything.. his and uncles were masons.... anyway.. I worked for him through college and spent time in  the field in mainly remodeling and home construction though I spent time in the commercial area... I started working with at-risk. Hard head, gang bangers, drug addicts in a Psych center at age 2 and decided it was time to teach...taught Sped Behavior/ Emotional Disturbed kids for 10 yrs... along with collaborating with a fellow carpenter on preservation projects using traditional methods of lime and adobe.. taught a class where I developed  the Preservation curriculm, oversaw the Grant money from the Criminal Jusitice dept... and ran my students in the field plus oversaw an adult component...  the carpenter I worked with is basically the guru here in the southwest in preservation/ restoration of adobe structures and lime plaster.. we have worked on two major projects and several minor projects in a Not for Profit mode.. using a community model...

   A couple of years back I spent a yr as a Historic Carpenter (vacations, after school) on a commercial Preservation/Remodel/ Construction site call the Plaza theatre here in El Paso....I hadn't been on a commercial site since 1985..

   Through all the experience.. I spent a lot of time thinking about what it would for my students to make it in the field....I worked with Carpenters who had no idea how to use a simple saw,, which saw etc...didn't know how to use a combination square or read a basic design let alone full construction plans...

   I have talked to contractors (Home and construction) they want the skills but refuse to pay more than $7.50 an hour because they can just get another body from across the border who will work for min or less (cash)... the factory jobs across the border pay only $7.00 per day.. Prevailing wage is 12.51 (17.75 but bennies are taken out)

   So, my kids have to have the skills to be foreman, supt.. own their own business or find a nitche....in this area 4 out of 5 young men are going to work in construction some time in their life.

   my phrase- Taking the power tools away deals with most of the projects in this 1st year class... they will be instructed in table saws, routers, beveled miter saws after their first 4 projects are completed.. each project builds on the last and is progressivlely more difficult... my students consist of all types of kids, including those going into the engineering, medical, etc.. fields... We are locked in one of the poorest areas in the country (#3) according the paper this morning....

   Our campus if fortunate to have 2 building trades teachers... the Building trades 1 and 2 is geared for production, almost all power tools used on the job and so on...

   I hope to have an advance class come this next year where my students will consist of those who have completed at least 2 yrs with me and my counterpart...

   This does not even count how I have to support the General testing in math, reading and writing...

   I'm able to use these projects, have them do the calculations, write the process, journal, write a paper,, rewrite construction math problems in their own words... isn't that how most of us really learned....these are hands-n kids...for the most part...

   As they tackle each project their confidence builds, then they start applying it in other field...

   two years ago I had the opportunity to get back into the commercial/ preservation field and make hellava lot more money... I'm right where I belong... I will teach as long as I'm able

   Thanks again for all your kind words and thoughts    by the way, I love Habitat but they don't build close enough in the area for my kids to participate... when they do.. we'll be there...

   Dennis

1. 
   gb93433 | Aug 30, 2006 07:39pm | #13

   I taught in one of the most expensive places to live in America and came to the same conclusions as you. Employers wanted my students because they had skills. The difference in the area you are at and where I was is that the area where I was paid a lot more for skilled labor. Almost every summer I built something. During the summer of 1984 I worked for a contractor and made $28.00 per hour doing finish work. Whereas the average laborer at the time made about $8.00 per hour. Students knew the difference between 8 and 28. When I give a person a price for a job I never gave them one price for a poor job and a another price for a good job. The person expects a good job. When you do good work you may never know where that leads. A man who I did work for was also one of the main leaders in the Shriners in the local area and it seeemed like he told everyone he knew. I had work for a long time because of him. I am a firm believer that work done well leads to the next job.

1. 
   beo48 | Aug 30, 2006 08:48pm | #14

   You are absolutely right... I don't swing a hammer for anything less than $35/hr...good work always leads to more than enough work...  with many of my students they have to contribute to the family.. so I want them to be able to make a living ...

    

1. 
   pzgren | Aug 30, 2006 10:25pm | #15

   Beo,

     Interesting conversation that you have started here. Many good and thoughtful comments.

     From my perspective, you are exactly on the right track, emphasizing hand tools vs power tools. I look at hand tool skills as being the basic woodworking skills (they can also, of course, become intermediate or master-level skills, as well). You (and others) have already covered all of the important points: learning to read the grain, etc. The most important part (IMO) is that it teaches/forces the student to THINK about what they are doing: how to assemble the joint; how to trim it to a proper fit; what a proper fit really is; how to analyse the stresses in the design, so they choose the correct joinery technique/method in the first place; etc. With those kinds of skills, as others have already mentioned, they can go anywhere....

     I am often amused at the reliance that the inexperienced place in gadgets and technology. Many a time have I watched a friend of mine solve problems on a slide rule faster than a young techie can on his latest and greatest computer or hand-held calculator; plus, he more often understands the real problem much better than the young technologist. Another example, from my Army days, is the reliance that young NCOs placed on GPS for navigating. "We don't need to know how to use a compass and map, we have GPS...." "Right stud, and what are you going to do when your GPS battery dies 40 km away from the nearest supply sergeant, or the bad guys jam the GPS signal? Hmmm? Last time I checked, it's pretty hard to jam a MK1A1 compass and a 1:50,000 map....."

     I see a lot of the same thing in much modern woodworking: many who can use all the latest jigs and electron munching machines, but can't effectively sharpen a plane iron or a chisel. I find it totally ironic that a woodworker will spend a lot of thought, a lot of creative ingenuity, and a full day -- or even longer -- building a one-time-use jig to make a couple of cuts that hand tools can do in a few minutes; a few hours, if you want to count the time needed to practice to become reasonably proficient in making that cut with the hand tool......

     I attribute part of this to the "instant gratification" mentality of large portions of our society. It is refreshing to see that there are folks out there (you included) that are having success in countering that mentality and that are imparting hard, useful, practical skills, that also can/do translate in other parts of life.

     Keep up the great work. We need more teachers like you!!

     (BTW, I'm not a Luddite, but I see technology as having both a proper place in society/life, as well as often having severe limitations. I see the need for a realistic balance.... As far as butchering wood goes, all of my woodworking is done with hand tools only, so I suppose that I am not exactly "unbiased" when it comes to advocating the use of hand tools and learning hand tool skills....)

     All the best to you, and thanks for starting and interesting and informative thread.

   Tschüß!

   Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen!

   James

   Edited 8/30/2006 3:28 pm by pzgren

   Edited 8/30/2006 3:28 pm by pzgren

2. 
   HWG | Sep 01, 2006 05:59pm | #21

   Dennis,

   My hat is off to you!  Great work with the kids!!Woody

6. 
   hobie16 | Sep 01, 2006 12:18am | #19

   Hi,

   I recently graduated from high school and am now into furnature making.  From my personal experience, yes there is allot to be said for doing things by hand, however, it is both easier and usually a better result is achieved.  For instance, I cannot hand cut  perfect dovetails, but I can set it up in the dovetail jig to achieve a perfect result.  Don't get me wrong, I believe that hand tools are indespensible, but really not many people will ever cut a cabinet pannel with a hand saw.

   Here is my advice.  It was set up in my highschool that there were two pathway classes.  One was for construction based learning and one was based on woodworking in its many forms.  The two practices are very diffent so there should be two classes.  If you had to keep it with one class then I would definetly teach people how to use the machines correctly and moreover safely.  I see soo many people working in compromising ways and that is just not good, but reinforce how to do it otherwise.

   One last thing.  Get the students involved with habitat.  I was able to finish my entire basement with the knowledge gained from my experiences there.  I took a week of basic home maintenence and dropped it becasue it was childs play to me.  It is an invlauable experience and you can really see where you would like to be in the construction world.

   Hope this helps you out.

1. 
   beo48 | Sep 01, 2006 01:18am | #20

   Hobie

   That's really good insight... at our high school we have two building trades teachers.. I teach the intro class..which includes a project in framing, drywall, texture, paint, plumbing, electrical, masonry and flooring (tile)... the students also have 4 teacher directed woodworking projects in which each project is introduces the students to hand tools needed to complete the project... after which they are given an opportunity to build something on their own (at my disgression)...I also introduce power hand tools at that time...

   I have found that by following this scope and sequence of learning the students' ability and confidence increased 300%.. also their learning curve on the table saw was reduced by 75% on the average... the greater the ability, confidence.. the greater the safety...

   After my class, they may move to building trades 1, 2 where they build major projects, storage sheds, cabins on wheels, full fledge homes.. or choose some of the other trades...using all the power tools available for production work..

   hopefully, by next year I will have a cabinetmaking/ furniture class made up of students who had my intro class and at least one year with building trades teacher

   I wish that Habitat built homes in our area,, under school rules I can't officially take my students off campus for work... it's been flooding here since Aug 1.. even for clean up... admin.. is always concerned about liability... but I know the way around it...

   If Habitat does build around here.. then I will be there with my SkillsUSA (VICA) club.

   With the experience and instruction that I give my students... I look forwar to hearing the same words about Maintence that you mentioned..

   Keep up the good work...

   Dennis