Looking for viewpoints on my first Hock Tools plane iron purchase since the Lee Valley transfer… I bought a new iron and was a bit surprised to find that it was hit on a buffing wheel as what is probably considered a “final finishing” step. My previous Hock buys have all had consistent finishes, some even mirror polished.
This one looks like a belt sander finish followed with a buff-polish touchup top & bottom. Of course one corner was hit harder, so getting it flat is going to be more work than if it was taken off the sander and packaged up. Hock blades have always been great, has anyone else had this experience? Would you send it back or accept the decline as the new reality for the brand?
Replies
I've never had anything but great luck with Hock. That is not typical.
Is it A2 or O1? In the past, they came from two different sources.
I'd think about sending it back, but they may all be like that.
Part of the reason for buying a premium blade is not spending an hour to flatten it, as with a vintage blade.
What is the "Lee Valley transfer"?
Ron Hock retired and sold the operation to Lee Valley. I'd say he's rolling in his grave over this QC... except he's not dead, just enjoying retirement.
I bought a few irons from hock. None didn't need substantial preparation, and none were significantly better than the one in the picture.
> Would you send it back or accept the decline as the new reality for the brand?
I’d send it back. It’s tainted. The little man inside you has spoken.
I’d mark the offending corner with blue tape and send it back.
I ordered another one, I'll return the worst one. Thanks all.
Update:
I received the second one today. It was touched on a buffer, but not forcefully. Sadly, the whole back was flattened on an abrasive belt so I have to work on it anyway. At least this one is not buffed beyond the sanding scratches.
The first one will go back. I have no doubt that it will go back into stock and be sent to someone else as-is.
The Lee Valley replacement blades are lapped beautifully. They are probably better choices these days than a Hock. Though it could be that these wonky blades are still Hock manufacture, and when Lee Valley starts producing them the quality will improve. I don't know why Lee Valley wouldn't lap the backs of these the same way they do the others.
I use the ruler trick on plane blades, so the backs don't need to be nearly as pristine for me as for others.
Yes, the PM-11V blades are superb. Probably the best blades I have used. Super flat, almost no lapping needed and retain an edge like nothing else I have used. As much as I like the Hock blades (have not ordered one since they were bought out), I think the LV (PM-11V in particular) are better, if a bit costly. They are thicker than the Hock, and I have had situations where a thicker blade does not work.
the issue you'll have with going to the LV O1 blade is every one I've seen is <60 hardness, and they will not have the edge life, strength or keen sort of feel that the hock french stuff has.
I could hardness test one of the new ones, but really can't imagine buying one just to do that. do they still say made in france on them?
The V11 blades aren't underhardened, but I'd hate to have them for all phases of planing.
EDIT: Having gone through my older Hock blades the finish is pretty consistent, except for the addition of the buffer. I should have done that before snapping off my response above. I agree that it would be bad biz to do what my post suggests, and I'm leaving it here so the gentlemen below don't look like they are responding to "air". Thanks for the reality check!
I can't imagine that was their plan.
I agree with John. That would be inconsistent with my years of experience buying and using their products.
There was an article in FW a few months back about using a buffer in place of a strop to finalize the honing process. The authors seemed to show that buffing (or stropping) increased the life of the blade. Others on this forum have commented that they strop their blades frequently during use rather than go back to the start of the honing process every time and get good results from that.
I wonder if this is why the Hock blades are buffed or if it is simply to hide other issues in their finishing procedure. From the comments above I would tend toward the latter. Hopefully this is just a "stumble" in the transition process.
that was probably pop wood, and the method isn't related to the prep done to this blade. it doesn't look like buffer work to me, it may have been done in a linear very fine belt or something, though.
A phone call to a human always works best for me. They are made aware of the issue, get a chance to respond, and make any corrections required. Lee Valley has always done right by me in the rare occasions when things did not go as planned. If the Hock line is unreliable at this point I can attest that the PM-v11 stuff is great. I know there are some 'old school' folks (P.S. I'm 70) that praise O1 and rightfully so. What works for you works. Pm-v11 is the magic balancing point between sharpness and durability for me right now.
I've been very happy with Lee Valley over the years as well. I'd like to believe by now that someone from Lee Valley has seen this post. If so, it would be really nice if they could respond here just to explain the situation. I say this because if they don't, future searches on these blades will pull this up and make them wonder if the Hock blades are still as good (or better) than ever. I don't know myself.
I did send an email to Lee Valley with this link on the off chance they haven't seen it.
I did receive a reply from Rob Lee at Lee Valley and am posting it below.
"Hi Joe –
Thanks for the heads up.
Have tried to post, but the site keeps looping back to a login request for me – frustrating.
I’ actually on vacation right now, so am running through a VPN - perhaps that’s the issue.
In any event -we have not made any changes to Ron’s manufacturing choices or methods, Will have a closer look when I get back to the office next week – and see if I can post there….
Cheers –
Rob Lee"
If they're going to continue getting the blades from France, that's a good thing.
of the three hock blades I have laying around right now, two were custom blades made in the US and one is a stock Stanley replacement from France.
The French blade is the best of the three in terms of heat treatment. There is a large gap between it and LV's O1 blades, also.
I would venture to say that today’s employee doesn’t care. Only the owner cares. In all my dealings with businesses today they couldn’t care less. They just concentrate on being nice, that’s the most important thing.
Henry Disston said the same thing in 1870.
I've never met a worker that wouldn't much rather do a good job than a crappy job. But many owners are more interested in cutting jobs and speeding up production for those employees to do better.
Henry sounds like a smart fellow, do you miss him?
He was kind of a know-it-all.
Lee Valley has investment costs to recover from the purchase.
Production costs have to decrease to cover the additional investment cost that Ron Hock did not have.
Remember Bridge City Tool
That argument makes no sense considering that the buffing is an ADDED operation, not a decrease in the time spent on each unit. Leaving them as they are when they come off the grinder would be better.
ok, I'm wrong.