I’m hoping someone can tell me whether I sould buy a dedicated mortiser or a chisel set for a drip press. Don’t have a drill press, but need one. A dedicated mortiser costs about the same as a cheap drill press + chilsels but I don’t know if the later will do as good a job. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Dave P
Replies
I've followed this topic for awhile now, and haven't seen anyone who's been happy with the combo, unless they hardly ever use one or the other. Even then, the drill-press-converted-to-mortiser rarely does the job without headaches.
If you think you'll be doing mortises regularly, go fo the mortiser. The Shop Fox is on my list!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Forest Girl:
If you have not purchased the shop fox mortiser yet, you might want to look at the General table top mortiser. I just went through the research and purchase process and ended up buying the General. The Powermatic was just too much $$ for now. The General has a cast iron post, gear track lowering mechanism, good, solid hold down and nice table. Cost was $60.00 more than the shop fox. So far, a nice job cutting 1/2" mortises in red oak.
PS. When you are on the computer, check out spinner.com, all blues channel.
Michael
Hi Michael, thanks for the Blues tip!!
I'm a ways away from getting the mortiser, since I had to do a router, planer and half of a jointer this month, ouch! Maybe you could let us know in a month or so how the General is performing for you. I've not heard much about that one, but am always interested in hearing about the best tool for the $$$.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The drill press add-ons are useless, too much play, not enough leverage. Get a Jet or Shopfox benchtop mortiser. Buy a decent set of Clico or Fisch bits for fine work, use the Taiwanese stuff that comes with the mortiser for blind mortises.
Well, I'm gonna disagree about uselessness. They do work but they require an extra effort. I've setup a table and fence with a stop on my drill press. I first drill all the mortises with a forstner bit. Once all of the pre drilling is done, I set up the mortising jig and very quickly square them up. Its definitly a lot neater than I can do with a chisle. It is no match for a dedicated machine but if you don't have a machine you can still produce decent results with the drill press attachment.Steve - in Northern California
I second the motion, Steve. I've gotten good results with my mortising attachment. It is kind of a pain to set up and square, but once it's there it works just fine. If I was doing tons of it, I'd buy the dedicated machine, but for a hobbyist making furniture here and there for my home it's just fine. Also, the attachment cost me about $15 on sale at a wood show. I bought a couple of the nicer Delta chisels and was off and running for a fraction of the cost of a mortising machine.
Edited 5/29/2002 12:29:04 PM ET by CAMPBELLDUST
While I'm sure what you guys are suggesting works, I'm missing the point of having the bit inside the chisel if you have to drill it out first.
From my experience, the drill press add-ons 1) are less solid - they tend to have more slop in them because of how they attach 2) cause a lot of wear on your drill press/chuck - drill presses are not intended to provide a great deal of pressure as required by a chisel. They are intended for use with sharp bits that remove the wood.
In fact, I used the drill press conversion until just recently, when I purchased a Jet mortiser - absolutely no comparison between the two. Setting up the Jet is snap - less than 5 minutes to set the fence to chisel distance and ensure it is square - used to take the better part of 15-20 minutes on the drill press. Also, the mortiser shows NO flex under load (1/2" chisel through red oak) - and given the wood, "load" in this case meant a great deal of downward pressure on the handle.
Lastly, quality of cut is considerably better on the hc - that may be as much a matter of better chisels however, but the fact is that the hc gives a nice square mortise with little or no distinction between "plunges" - while on the dp you could definitely tell (too many variables - fence goes in-out and left-right, table goes left-right and up-down...)
Doug
I have had no problem using my 17" Delta to mortise with (usually hard maple, 1/4" or 3/8" chisels). I now have an old Rockwell drill press that is my dedicated mortiser. I keep my chisels very sharp (get the diamond honing cones from Lee Valley) and I mortise the outsides, the middle then clean-up, you will fight the mortise if you start at one end and work towards the other.I would rather be mountain biking.
I went the other way. I got a drill chuck extender for the mortiser so I could use it as a drill press and I've been very happy with the setup. I think I found the chuck I use in the Garrett Wade Tool Catalog. It was made for another brand of mortiser than mine (I have a jet) but it should be interchangeable on about any brand mortiser. It is basically a shaft with a drillchuck on the end that can be chucked in the mortiser. It also has a bushing that fits where the chisels are clamped in the mortiser which helps eliminate any possibel play in the shaft of the extended chuck.
It seems to be a much more solid, accurate setup than trying to mortise with a drill press. Also much quicker to go from one to the other.
Hope that helps
Howard
I have the Jet mortiser also. Is the drill chuck extender you mention made my Multico for their benchtop mortiser? It fits your Jet with no problems? I had thought about that, since the mortiser already has a good square fence, table, and hold-down, why not use it as a drill press also? You have to build a jig or buy an aftermarket table to get a standard drillpress to work well for woodworking. I have got to try this. Thanks for the idea!
Yep, that's the one. The drill conversion kit for the multico mortiser fits the Jet mortiser just fine. It has been a solid solution to the drill/mortiser question and it is very quick and easy to go from one function to the other. It's just my opinion, but I think a mortiser does drilling better than a drill press does mortising. The only problem you may run into is with the limited range of travel you have with the mortiser. With the mortiser set up for drilling, the thickness of the board your drilling is restricted to around 3". It hasn't been an issue for me, but if your going to be drilling thick stuff or edge drilling, you may want to consider it.
Hope that was useful!
Howard
I am also looking for a new mortiser. I'm wondering if the larger Powermatic is a good choice. I have heard great things about it, and would love to know of other people's experience with it.
Matt,
I too have had my eye on the floor-model Powermatic mortiser, and am surprised that it sells for under $1000. The machine looks great, and the levers and cranks seem to be plenty beefy. A heavy machine, but I'm sure that if you anchored the tool the ground you might gain some more leverage. You have, ofcourse, looked at the larger Multico models? Very pricey, but worth it if you have the budget. Also, Wilke Machinery sells a few floor-models that are even more beefy. One of these models has a horizontal hand crank wheel as big as a car steering wheel. Very nice for finer movements. Prices similar to the Multicos. General Machinery has the mother of all floor mortisers. Looks like the Laser of doom from Goldfinger.
Joe"Hide not your talents, they were for use made. What's a sun-dial in the shade?"
- Benjamin Franklin
Joe,
I did take a look at the General Model 220 Mortiser, which costs $4,700. Afraid that one is WAY WAAY WAAAY outisde my budget! Unless I want my wife to murder me, I don't think so!
The Multico mortisers seem nice as bench-top models, but do they have the capacity of the Powermatic?
I understand Fisch makes a floor model, but I have never actually seen it anywhere.
But I have been wondering about the Bridgewood MS-10 Mortiser, which is about $100 more than the Powermatic.
I posted a while back for opinions on how the Powermatic and Bridgewood compare, but it doesn't seem like many people know about the Bridgewood. However, everyone I have spoken with, or heard from online, seems to have all praise for the Powermatic.
If anyone knows about the Bridgewood, Fisch, or any other floor models -- fire away!
Hello Matt,
LOL - I certainly got a chuckle when you said how much the General Mortiser costs. Wow! Those Canadians are very proud I guess. I hadn't really expected you to take that one seriously of course, just thought I would throw it in for grins. I'm guessing that a mortiser of that calibre is used in some kind of major industrial situation, like at an Ethan Allen plant, or Broyhill factory or something.
Oh yes, the Multico mortisers are very nice indeed. Pricey too. Naturally, they are sold through the Garrett Wade catalog, a high-end wishbook for woodworkers with lots of money. (is that a contradiction in terms?) Made by the Brits, the Multicos have an excellent reputation and were one of the first to enter the field. But most of these machines are bench-mounted I think, and the base is up to you.
As far as the Bridewood vs the Powermatic, youv'e got me there. Both are imported, and both seem to have the same frame and sizing. Gosh, they probably came from the same plant in Tiawan, and then painted opposite and finished out differently. The Bridgewood MS-10 (second below) sells for $895 plus shipping, pretty close to the price of the Powermatic. But I will say that the oversized handwheel of the Bridgewood is a very nice feature. I think the large wheel would make shifting (especially heavy stock) much easier don't you think? It would also allow for finer movements and adjustments. But on the other hand, if you purchase a Powermatic, thus from a local distributor, it might be easier for you down the road if problems arise such as warranty, parts, etc. (and arise they do). The Powermatic certainly looks alot nicer than the Bridgewood, but I suppose we must remember function over asthetics. Heck, I would probably end up buying the Bridgewood just because of the over-sized handwheel. It just seems that a larger wheel would make things go alot smoother and easier. I dunno. Let me know what you think.
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"Hide not your talents, they were for use made. What's a sun-dial in the shade?"
- Benjamin Franklin
Edited 6/7/2002 3:13:33 AM ET by JOSEPH
Joseph,
Thanks for posting the side-by-side photos of the two machines. They look vert similar, but not SO similar that they are made at the same plant. Also, I know the Bridgewood fence and table are a bit smaller. I also like the large handwheel of the Bridgewood, but if the capacity is less than the Powermatic, then I would opt for smaller wheels.
Also, I've heard that the Powermatic is very smooth, even if it does have relatively small wheels.
I will probably go with the Powermatic, because I will probably be able to have a hands-on test at my local tool supplier (Coastal Tool).
I'm just worried that AFTER I buy it, I'll hear from several woodworkers that the Bridgewood is better. I've had that happen before -- only get important information AFTER a purchase is made! Very frustrating.
On a humorous note, I went into my local Woodwoekers Warehouse yesterday to see if they had the Powermatic Mortiser. The two knuckleheads who work there looked at me like I was from another planet. Then one of them asked the manager, "Do you know anything about a Po-we-r-mat-ic?" The manager, knowing a little more about woodworking machines, asked the guy, "A Powermatic what?"
Real experts over there!
You don't want to get me started on Woodworker's warehouse! I might actually have an embolism. I've learned how to shop there:
1. Completely research the products yourself.
2. Do not ask any questions, or you will be misled.
3. Check out the tool you want, then order it from Tool Crib/Amazon.Com, thus saving the state sales tax. If it's over $200, they will ship it for free.
On another note, Multico does offer a metal base for there most powerful industrial mortiser, the MCD 1.5 hp, which Garret Wade lists for $2995 on sale. Ouch!
Well, it looks like the Powermatic is the best of the floor models under $1,000. I like what I have heard about Multico, but I don't see why their tools cost so much. And with everyone so happy about Powermatic, I don't see a reason to spend more.
Matt,
Let me know when you do buy your mortiser, the Powermatic I presume. I'll probably get one too, and would like to know how it you like it and how well it works. It's probably a safe assumption to say the Multicos are made very, very well. The old cliche that goes "you get what you pay for" is very true in our woodworking world, for the most part I think. "Hide not your talents, they were for use made. What's a sun-dial in the shade?"
- Benjamin Franklin
Joseph,
I was just quoted a price of $749 at a local tool supplier (Coastal Tool in West Hartford, CT). They need to order it, but it will be in by the end of next week. This will be pretty exciting.
I'll definitely post a "review" of sorts after I get a chance to use it in my shop.
Thanks,
Matthew
Has anyone here used the JDS multi router instead of a hollow chisel mortiser. I have a delta HC mortiser and have had very good success with it bit I made my own version of a multi router and find it far better as far as speed and accuracy. It won't do square mortises but I can use all of the JDS templates to create rounded tenons. It also far easier fo set up to do angled or compound angled joinery. he initial cost of the JDS is pretty high which kept me from buying one but after building my own I wsh I had bought one years ago. just as and example I cut 200 3/8w X 1 1/2 long X 1 1/4 deep mortises in under two hours including cutting the stock to length and setting up the machine. I haven't seen many people talk about a multi router or any type of slot mortiser on this board and aftert using one I am curios as to why they are not more popular.
Tom:
Do you have any pictures of the multi-router you made? I am currently in the mental debate process of which is the best setup for making lots of mortises without breaking the bank.
Thanks.
Michael
I don't have any pictures of it at the moment but it is on the list of things to do. I will say that now that I have it I don't know why I didn't do it sooner. It works just like the JDS machine. I got a deal (free) on some linear bearing to use o build it so I ended up with only about $150-200 in it. Linear bearing are quite expensive new so buying a new machine may actually be a better way to go.
I took a couple real quick. I don't know how well they will show up, my camera is an el cheapo. Gotta save the cash for all my other hobbies. Hope this works. I've never posted pics before.
Tom:
Thanks for posting the pics. Very slick looking rig. You definitely got me thinking this might be a good answer to my cost/space problem. I have access to some small, flat gear track. I think I will investigate if I canis instead of the linear bearing.
Thanks again.
Michael
I make a LOT of mortises' - I'm at that machine daily - I own the Powermatic for about 1 1/2 years now and I have nothing but praise for this piece of equipment. The only thing I had to do was set the unit on the cabinet base, wipe of the packing grease and plug in the cord. I have no problems running mortises from 1/4" thru 3/4" and on any kind of wood. The machine just sit on the floor and I've had no problem in plunging a 3/4" bit into white oak. You can pay more for other machines but I doubt that there are improvements over the preformance. At about $750.00 this machine just cannot be beat.
e-me if you have any other questions.
Robert
I don't use a either machine. I do have a spanking new Jet Drill press with a mortising attachment. I bought the machine to mortise 8 mission chairs. I haven't counted all the mortises but there a lot of them. I've had nothing but trouble with burning jagged mortises and really bad tearout on the though mortises I was punching though the white oak I am using. Rather than spend the bucks on a dedicated machine I went to my local machine supply house and puchased a two flute solid carbide end mill to do the job (yes the metal cutting kind). The bit is 1/2" x 4" overall length, with a length of cut of 2". I needed a really long bit to reach through the legs in the chairs plus a little to pass through the router base and template that guides the bit. I couldn't find any 1/2" router bits with that long cut. They accually make them longer than that. It was was a bargain at $37.00. Now my mortises are smooth and square. I used a hand chisel to square up the ends. I think using a router for doing mortises works great. The problem with using a router is you will need some type of jig to guide the bit where you want (not so good if your only cutting a few), the good thing is as long as you put the jig on the wood the same way everytime you can get very accurate mortises everytime. I can not coment on a dedicated machine because I have never used one. I'm sure they probably work better than the drill press.
I went the same way with the drill press, and got the same poor results. I returned the mortise bits, and bought a couple that were maybe 4 times the cost. Spent a couple of hours tuning them up, and that's worked fine for several years now. On the end mill, I use several 2-flute HSS mills for loose tenons. They're much cheaper than the carbide, and have lasted for quite awhile. Of course, that depends on you usage, just like everything else.
Gerry
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