I’m sure I read something awhile back about building your own HVLP turbine. These look to be repackaged cannister vacuum motors (at least for the less expensive models). Can anybody point me to where I saw the article?
Meanwhile I’m probably going to order a Porter Cable PSH1 conversion gun and maybe the el-cheapo Harbor Freight HVLP system to try out. What the heck–combined they’re under $200.00
Would a cheap HVLP gun like the one in the HF package perform better with a better turbine (the home-made one I’m considering)?
(Please don’t recommend a Fuji or Asturo system–my budget won’t extend that far)
Replies
There was an article in FWW about that sometime in the last 14 years, that is, since I started subscribing, but I sure can't find it in the article index. I have a vague memory that it might have been on the front cover, but with no cover index, that doesn't help either.
I have purchased and used the conversion guns from Harbor Freight both the gravity feed and syphon feed guns and have had excellent results. Like anything else, if You were going to use them all day five days a week you may want to invest in a top of the line production gun. You will need a air compressor that can deliver the required CFM of air at the guns recommended pressure in order to operate it. Some guys get by using a 2HP compressor for these guns. The only draw back is that the compressor will cycle more often. If you are only going to spray in the shop, I would recommend that you purchase a good compressor, I have a 5HP with a 60 gallon tank that I purchased at the Big Box store for the same price as a expensive HVLP turbine unit. I can spray anything with that unit and it does not recycle every few minutes.
If you do not want to go that route, I would go for the HVLP turbine system. Again, if you are only going to be spraying occasionally, go for the Harbor Freight unit. You can always up-grade later. Personally I do not like the turbine noise in my shop while spraying and I feel that I get better control with my conversion guns.
Well, that's my two cents worth.
Good Luck:
The Old Timer
Check out "More FInishes and Finishing Techniques" by Tauton books. It has the reprint of the article you are looking for. I believe it on sale too boot. I'm in the same position you are, let me know how you make out.
Steve
[email protected]
Mach70 Unfortunately there is a lot of confusion about HVLP. As I understand it there are two separate way to go - turbine + turbine gun or compressor with conversion HVLP gun. If you built a turbine, you need a turbine designed gun, like the Fuji - the turbine will not drive a conversion gun. Likewise, a compressor will not drive a turbine gun. I built a homemade turbine and bought the Fuji gun but altogether I probably spent in excess of $350.00 (don't forget the 3/4 hose and fittings aren't cheap). You could do better if you found a used turbine ( the Amtek I bought runs around $125) or you found a used turbine gun - I never found one. One way to tell the difference is a turbine gun has a 3/4 inch air inlet, a conversion HVLP gun has a 1/4 inch inlet. Even if you tried an adaptor it still wouldn't work- The conversion gun takes in a small volume ( that is why it uses a 1/4 inlet) of air at high pressure ( roughly 40 psi though it varies from gun to gun) and by virtue of its design the output is less that 10 psi at the tip. The turbine gun takes in a larger volume of air ( that is why is uses a 3/4 hose and inlet) at a much lower pressure ( less than 10 psi) and has a discharge pressure of under 10 psi. To sum up- price up all the components before you start making a homemade rig - unless you get a deal on the gun or motor you will probably end up near or over $350.00. One other option is to buy an Astro HVLP conversion gun ( approx $90) and then spend the other $250.00 getting a compressor - though to get enough air to run that gun you would probably have to spend at least 300 to 350 - but then you would have a compressor to do other things. One final option is to get the Astro HVLP mini gun - it has a small cup ( for holding the finish) but it can be run off a much smaller compressor and you would end up under $300.00. Good luck Barry
I have a turbine that I could use but it would likely be overkill. If the number of stages is the layers (stacked) of turbine disks then my unit is about an 8 stage! I bought it surplus so have no idea what it was originally used for but I used it for about a year as the heart of a 2-stage DC system. If not for the size & AC cord it would make a good leaf blower--incredibly powerful. Any such thing as a "central turbine system" to supply an entire shop? Just kidding... I think
Perhaps this cat can be skinned several ways. I've read harbor freight sells (or used to?) an adaptor kit to use a shopvac for the blower. Kirby vacuums have an attachment to paint with (though you could buy several HVLP systems for what a Kirby costs). Weird ideas, but who knows...
My point is that I'm a born scrounger and as long as I'm not in a hurry I'm sure I can build an excellent system for very little cash. Finding info seems to be a little more challenging which is why I was hoping someone would remember where that construction article was.
Mach70, I went online and checked the FWW index, then reviewed my back issues - you are looking for volume 106 June of 1994 page 86 titled "Vacuum Motor Turns into a Spray Rig" by Nick Yinger. I based the rig I built on that article - though I used a different type of motor- the one he used dischaged the air around the periphery of the motor so he had to build a sealed compartment around the motor and then plumbed connections to that compartment. I used a motor that has an exhaust port - so you just have to get suitable adaptors to bring it down to the 3/4 size for the hose- using that motor the job is pretty simple. Rig up a power switch, filters for the fresh air and cooling air and then the exhaust fittings and you are done. One other thought - you might try to find a used Campbell Hausfeld turbine system - they are definitely not the top of the line but you should be able to find one used fairly cheap and it comes with the turbine, the turbine gun and the hose and fittings - then replace the parts you can find/ scrounge ( such as the turbine) as you find them.
Barry,
Yee-ha! Thanks--got it right in front of me now.
MACH70:
Been shop building HVLP units for a few years. The attachment shows the dual turbine unit I'm currently building. It will produce 10psi at the gun. I pitched this as an article to FWW but was turned down. " The topic is just not right for Fine Woodworking". Maybe if it's dovetailed and made from Tiger maple instead of but joints and MDF.
Dave Koury
That is a nice looking rig. Any idea what kind of cost it would be to build one. Where did you source the parts.Tom
It's not pretty but it works. Can't see spending the time to make it furiture quality, it's just a box to hold the motors. Cost is about $175 plus the gun and hose. I use an inexpensive Cambell Hausfeld gun and hose and get a great finish due to the 10psi. A friend uses the same turbine setup with a Fugi gun and gets an automotive type finish. I just spray stain, poly and laquer, no orange peel. I have also sprayed un-thined latex house paint, great for cutting in corners. Here is a brief discription and parts list;- Motors are both Ametek 5.7” dia., by-pass tangential discharge- three stage #116765-00- two stage #119-412-13- both are rated 500 hour average life- Ametek also makes 7.2” dia. motors with a 700 hour average life. Make sure the motors are “by-pass” design NOT “flow thru”. By-pass have a fan on the commutator end to help cool the motor.- The 1/2” MDF box is 17” x 9” x 12 1/2” for the motors listed. If different motors are used resize the box.- Air filter is a Fram #CA3915. The two round filters are non woven nylon scuff pads cut to fit over the cooling fans.- Two 15 amp on/off switches- Use a 12 ga. power cord.- The box just holds the motors and filters. It’s a cut and fit to build operation. The output of the two stage is connected to the input of the three stage. The three is bolted to the center divider over a 2” hole and the two is bolted to the back panel. The outlet of the two is press fit into the divider hole. The two stage holes for the cooling fans, with the nylon pads, are rabbeted to hold the filters. You can use any method or type of filters, they are for course material, not like the Fram type. The main Fram filter is over a 2” hole. Build a frame for it and screw it to the box.- Hose connector. Use a metal funnel cut to fit over the outlet of the three stage and use silicone to seal it. The other end is cut to accept a hose connector. I use a 3/4” PVC threaded male hose pipe epoxied to the funnel.- Wire a switch to each motor and connect them in parallel to the power cord. DON’T wire the motors in series, they will run half speed.- I purchase motors from Nationwide Sales and Service 800-555-4493, http://www.shopnss.com. If you have a Granger catalog , they list specs. on the motors but their prices are high. Go to the Ametek web site and check specs. and dealers. Get a three stage with high “lift” spec. Those will produce the highest psi.- Hope this helps. Contact me with questions.- I use a bleeder type gun. If a non-bleed gun is used, a relief valve can be installed at the hose to box connection. It will open when the trigger is not pressed and close when in use.DJK
Edited 1/3/2007 9:37 am ET by DJK
I realize this thread is old, but it is still pertinent! Does anybody have a cut list for building a box to hold two turbines? Did anybody else ever build this dual system? It seems like a good idea. I suppose one potential problem is the two turbines probably need to have the same CFM so as to not starve the down stream unit.
anyone built this dual system?
cgates30 wrote:
I realize this thread is old, but it is still pertinent! Does anybody have a cut list for building a box to hold two turbines? Did anybody else ever build this dual system? It seems like a good idea. I suppose one potential problem is the two turbines probably need to have the same CFM so as to not starve the down stream unit.
Did you find a list or any information how to connect and build the two turbines together? I am also looking and googling for a more detailed information on how to build.
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