Anyone bought one of these? I have a buddy in the market for a contractor’s saw for occasional woodworking/light carpentry. I checked one out at the Big Orange Box. It looked pretty good, cast iron wings, decent fit and finish, integrated mobile base, clone fence design, etc. I think they are a little cheaper than either Delta or Jet comparable saws. Opinions?
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Replies
q-sawn,
I've had a Ridgid for about a year now and have had no problems with. Some people may not like the cast iron web extensions, but I've found they make it easy to use clamps if needed. I've cut up to 2" maple on this saw and haven't had a problem. Dave is right about the fence - you have to push it forward to square it, but I haven't had a problem. I bought the Ridgid because it was about $300 cheaper than the Jet or Delta (the Ridgid came with a built-in mobile base). If you plan to make woodworking your business, you may want to consider a Jet or Delta, but I think I got my money's worth from the Ridgid.
Terry
What do they want for this saw price-wise? Are we talking $400?
I paid $599 with the mobile base (about $100 if you have to buy one separately).
When you think Rigid think Craftsman they are the same saw...... Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
I don't know whether they're the "same saw" or not, but my understanding is that Rigid tools are covered by a lifetime warrantee. Aside from the rather underwhelming fence desgin, what really would concern me is that their motor is not TEFC ("totally enclosed fan-cooled") which is just asking for trouble IMHO.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 5/12/2002 12:05:01 AM ET by forest_girl
guys, last I looked, the delta's are not tefc either... not really asking for trouble, just asking for some maintenance.....
as for the comments that these are the same as a craftsman, this is not altogether correct.
I've got the low end rigid (discontinued, got it on closeout for about 230), My dad's got two craftsman, one 4 years and the other about 30 years old.
Same supplier for both... emerson was given the boot by sears about 3 years ago... but the difference is in the details, and the rigid is a better machine... small things make the difference.
anyway. depends what the guy wants to use it for..... the mobile base and life time warantee are pretty nice offerings, and no shipping.
yeah, i'm nuts
just my 2 cents
m
anway, what
Ron : Your right about Ridgid/ Emerson Electric making the Craftsman table saws
or I should say they did make them now Crapsman has Ryobi making them...
Yea I saw that the last time I was there. They (ryobi) make a number of tools and put the crapsman name on it. So does ridgid. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
A local hardware and equipment store told me that Chicago Electric makes the Rigid brand
-DP
You can tell your friend that Chicago Electric doesn't makes the Rigid brand. Emerson Electric does & Emerson Electric is a branch of Rigid who has made plumbing tools for years.
Not true, manufactured by two different companies.
The postings you are commenting on are two and a half years old and the saws being discussed are no longer being produced.
John W.
Hi q-sawn!
Given your friend's needs, if he's in that $500-$600 range, he might want to look at the Grizzly 1022Pro, which has a Biesemeyer-clone fence, 2HP motor, and cast iron (webbed) wings. It's $75 shipping, but sometime in late summer they usually have a "free shipping" sale. I was looking at the Jet contractor's saw at Amazon yesterday, and the Jet with cast iron wings was $649, steel wings $549, but that with the annoying Jet fence (not the Exacta), so .... ?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another reason I would consider a name brand saw (other than crapsman/rigid) is that once you buy there tools you are locked in to there products. You just cant go out a buy a after market tenoning jig other than a crapsman or rigid for example. they will work but you'll have to jump through a few hoops to get it to work. as your friend considered buying a used tool. Since it will be used for the occasional project. You can find decent Delta used on the net through the recycler classifieds for a good price. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
My fence is not anoying,, O.K. I did break it once but its really pretty good once you get the hang of it.. Its just a learning curve thing like anything else... Oh BTW sorry about the boys tonight. Took kind of a beating but hey, they'll bounce back.Steve - in Northern California
Hi Steve, how was your weekend? I dunno, the Exacta fence is sooooo much nicer. 'course it only comes with the cast-iron-wings package, which kicks the whole thing up into the mid-$800 range. I actually looked at Delta contractor's saw today. Yikes, shouldn't have done that. Despite the fact that I'm suspicious of their customer service, I do like the design of their stock fence much better than the stock Jet fence. And, it's only $499. Hmmmmmm.
Yep, the boys are smartin'! Did you know that the 1-0 lead they had early in the game is the only time the Mariners have ever had a lead on Pedro? Sheesh! And they have to face him again next Saturday. Well, this is a team that "takes a beatin' and keeps on tickin' " (I hope!).
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 5/13/2002 10:22:35 PM ET by forest_girl
Hi ya f_g... The weekend was fine, the week has been lousy but is starting to get better.
I have the Jet with the cast iron wings with the Jet Fence (JF). The PF model includes the Homeshop Xacta II Fence. I paid 649.00 for mine and find that the fence works just fine if you remember to set it lightly then final adjust. It just takes an extra second or two and is something I think I would do anyway. If I was going to step up to a better fence it would be the Beismeyer and not the Homeshop Xacta II. You can buy either saw without the fence. It is actually a separate part/kit. I wish I had known that when I bought mine because I would have opted to go with the Beismeyer then and saved a few bucks. Steve - in Northern California
Hi Steve, welcome back!
Have a wood question for you below, but here's the scoop on the saw. I called Jet yesterday, and they gave the name of a serviceperson in my general area. Talked to him last night. Based on the history of the saw, he figures (and I agree) that he's going to have to take the carriage assembly out, reset the stretcher bars (tie-rods, they call 'em) and reinstall everything. One to two hours (more likely 2). $90 if I take the saw to him, travel time added if he comes to me. He wants me to leave it at his place for a few days, which I'm not real happy about. Of course, he wants to know why I'd put $90-$150 into a saw that's "only worth $300." If there were a dozen out there at $300 that I could buy, I wouldn't do it, but they just don't come along very often at all!
I've not seen anywhere that sells the saw without the fence. What I'd really like to find is the saw without the motor, which of course I already have, and it's basically brand new.
Wood Question: I'm going to go pick out some Alder early this afternoon to make a couple display cases out of. It's surfaced on two sides, 1" or less (can't remember) in thickness. Any tips on what type of grain to look for/stay away from?
Later! Been pretty quiet around here, so am looking to you to add some spice!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi ya kiddo... Well sounds like you have a dilema. I just called my Jet dealer and he said he can't sell the saw without the fence either. I was thinking that since they are called a kit you could separate them. You can buy the fence separately but with or without the fence, the saw price is the same.. bummer.
As for Alder, I really don't know. It all depends on how you plan to finish it I guess. I think I would look for interesting grain and since its s2s, you'll be able to see clearly what your buying.Steve - in Northern California
I've seen that Grizzly saw advertised. I was interested because of the 2hp mptor in particular. As I've said before, I think 1.5hp is the only real complaint I have about my Jet contractor's saw. Thanks for the advice.
Do you use thin kerf blades? They help on the horsepower thing. You should have blade stablizers but they are only $15. I used them on my 1.5 and never had power problems.
John
I just bought a Freud thin kerf rip blade, tried it out. The quality of cut is OK, nothing to rave about. Maybe stabilzers would help. I am starting to think that my horsepower problem has more to do with inadequate electrical service than anything else. The saw is running on a 20 amp circuit, so it's maxing out all the time. I'd like to upgrade to 220v single phase wiring, but I'd have to hire an electrician to replace panel, wiring, etc. Money, Money, Money!
q-sawn, I must be missing something here. What saw/motor are you having horsepower problems with? If it's a 1-1/2 HP or less, I'd be very surprised if you're maxing out a 20-Amp circuit. My Jet motor has 19 amps on the motor plate (at 115V), but Steve looked up the technical info for me, and although start-up is in the 19A area, it runs at much, much less than that (would have to search to find the exact number, 12 amps maybe?)
I, too, would like at some point to have my saw on 230V, but I've read enough real-life reports from people who use the same saw I have on a 20A, 115V circuit for all sorts of ripping and cutting, with no problems, to figure that if I run into any problems, it's more likely due to something other than electricity per se.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I posted a thread a while back on this. My Jet JTS-10 bogs down and trips the motor mounted circuit breaker often, usually if I'm trying to rip anything over 1" thick oak. The consensus of advice at the time was that I was maxing out the available amperage, and that I should consider upgrading to 220V. I do notice the lights dimming when I start up, which makes sense if I'm drawing 19+ amps on a 20 amp circuit on startup. The wiring is old, and a long way from the panel, so maybe I'm never getting 20 amps. I have been using a thin kerf blade when ripping, but even that will stop the saw in really thick material. Is it only me having these problems with a Jet 1.5hp contractor's saw? Maybe I've got a bum motor?
Naw, your motor is fine. You've just got to get that saw on a dedicated 110v circuit. When I plug my saw into the 15amp lighting circuit it dims the lights momentarily, my chop saw does the same thing. I put my saw on a dedicated 20 amp circuit with 12/2 wire and since then I've never had a problem. I have several other machines on the same circuit but I only run them one at a time. 220 is not going to get you a whole lot more than 110. We've been all over that argument already, no need to digress. By the way, you can also ease the load a bit by running a link belt instead of a v belt. It takes more effort to run the saw when the belt has a set in it and the motor is bouncing around. Steve - in Northern California
My saw was wired 115V with a 2 HP motor I had it on its own line but it would trip the breaker a little to easy so I did rewire the moter to run 220V. I have one 220V 15AMP line into my shop which runs my jointer, thickness planer, bandsaw, and table saw. I have never had a problem since with anything tripping. If the wire that runs to your shop can handle 220V 15AMP then I would look at going that way if for the only reason to drop the amperage so you won't trip the breaker again.Scott C. Frankland
Newfoundland Wood Worker
q-sawn, you realllllly shouldn't be having that much trouble. How far from the panel are you? Shoot a note to Steve -- he has the same saw, and "talking" with him convinced me that I didn't absolutely have to switch to 230V. Mine was tripping the circuit breaker in the panel which I eventually replaced and everything was fine.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're tripping the circuit breaker on the motor, then you must be drawing over 19 amps with the motor, which is alot! during regular running (as opposed to start up). Something's amiss somewhere (ya think? :-)
Maybe someone could explain what happens at the motor if there's a voltage drop due to old wiring, distance from the panel etc.
I guess I'd be concerned that the motor might develop problems over a period of time if the electrical isn't satisfactory.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It sounds like the thermal overload device on the motor is opening, indicating an overtemperature condition in the motor. If you are drawing too much current due to excessive voltage drop in the branch circuit feeding the saw, the motor will overheat. Have a friend monitor the current with an inductive ammeter while you work it hard. If the current exceeds the nameplate current (16A for a 1.5 hp Baldor at 115V or whatever your motor's nameplate FLA is), you're drawing too much current and overheating the motor. Check the voltage across the motor terminals (not at the panel) while you are running it hard. Breakdown torque on that type motor depends upon voltage; 20% voltage reduction from nameplate causes a 36% reduction in breakdown torque, more or less. Breakdown torque is where it gives up and stalls, rather abruptly and at not much less than rated speed (unlike universal motors in circular saws and such, which increase torque all the way down to zero rpm). That would explain the reduced torque and stalling. And of course, excessive voltage drop causes increased current draw which in turn heats the motor.
Although this has been beaten to death before, I'll suggest a couple of fixes. 1) A dedicated 120V line, with heavy wire (12 ga for 20A, but 10 ga is better to reduce voltage drop, especially over long runs), or 2) a dedicated 240V line over 12 ga for the same reasons, but even less voltage drop due to the halving of current. This reduced voltage drop and resultant increase in start and breakdown torque is why people with bogging motors rave about the improvement going to 240V. But properly sized wiring for 120V gives the exact same practical result.
edit 1: FWIW, the locked-rotor current (inrush at start-up) for the Baldor referenced above is approx. 43A at 120V. It's 2 hp brother draws approx. 92A at 120V, both as published by the manufacturer.edit 2: minor clarifications
Edited 5/16/2002 11:43:06 PM ET by TDKPE
Edited 5/17/2002 12:44:14 AM ET by TDKPE
Edited 5/17/2002 2:20:56 AM ET by TDKPE
"And of course, excessive voltage drop causes increased current draw which in turn heats the motor." Ahhhhh, this is what I suspected!! I don't have a real good grip on electricity (yet), but what little I do know made me wonder if this wasn't exactly what was happening. It seems this would be pretty hard on the motor, no?
"But properly sized wiring for 120V gives the exact same practical result." -- Yes, Yes, Yes! I've seen this demonstrated by several people who have written to say that their saw does just fine on 120/115V circuits. If q-sawn was to run a new 230V circuit, and get great results, it might be that he'd get the same improvement if he were able to fix his 115V circuit.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"It seems this would be pretty hard on the motor, no?" - Yes, very. In fact, if he continues on the present course, you may soon have a customer for that motor you'd like to sell.
"If q-sawn was to run a new 230V circuit, and get great results, it might be that he'd get the same improvement if he were able to fix his 115V circuit." - Yes again. Once you get current to the motor at or very near rated voltage under load, the motor doesn't care what voltage it's wired for (the old series/parallel winding discussion, with each of 2 windings seeing the same voltage and amperage in either configuration). But if the wiring is undersized, and maybe shared, that's not going to be possible. If it's not shared, it's a simple matter to change to a 2-pole breaker (tape the ends of the white wire black or red), change the receptacle and plug to 240V configuration, and rewire the motor for 240V (make sure the switch is 2-pole also) and the small wire will work a whole lot better. But there is something to be said for keeping it 120V in that you retain the ability to plug in elsewhere if desired, plus you don't have to change a bunch of connections in the motor, along with plugs, receptacles, etc. If you're running a new line, 10 ga is only pennies more per foot than 12 ga, plus you get to use it for other tools.
Modern (small) motors are rated at 115V and/or 230V (look at the nameplate), which is about 4% lower than the US nominal 120/240V (which is 117/234V typically where I am). This is in recognition of the voltage drop under load in the wiring leading up to the motor. If you supply exactly 115V (at the motor, under load), and then 230V (at the motor, under load) to the same motor, appropriately connected, there will be no difference in performance. The trick is always in getting the juice to the machine. And, of course, don't take electrical advice from the internet. Get an electrician. A new branch circuit done right will cost less than a new motor.
I have a 1.5 hp delta contractor w/unifence. I've never had any of the problems that many of you are describing with your saws. It's wired for 115 and cuts great, and I've used it alot. I've ripped 4" square oak with it. I had to make two passes, cut a groove in one side then flip it over and run it through again. Cutting wasn't particularly fast, but otherwise I certainly can't complain. The only time I ever experienced difficulty was when ripping 2x4's on end, for a friend. that were first jointed down to a sufficient width. He had somewhat wet wood, that coupled with the fact that it tends to twist and warp and grab the blade as you're cutting through it, made it bog down if you weren't real carefull. I had to have him physically keep the wood spread as the guard was not sufficient to keep it from grabbing the blade.
After reading Tdkpe's post, I'm inclined to think that the fact that I have a 30 amp breaker box with a heavy guage extension cord, that I typically dedicate to the table saw when doing heavy work, is probably why it's done so well for me.
Edited 5/16/2002 11:51:04 PM ET by dperfe
It sounds like your problem is in the wiring. You mentioned that it is old, poor wiring and some distance. This would indicated that while you are getting the amps, due to the poor wiring and distance, the actual voltage at the motor may be a fair bit lower than the nominal 115V. Since power equals amps times voltage, if you're losing voltage down the circuit, then you're losing horsepower and thusly, 'bogging'. I'm with another post that says run a new dedicated 20A line with 12/2. And if the run is out at 50 feet or more, I'd drop to 10/2. Adding a circuit is pretty easy compared to replacing existing wiring, so you may well be able to do it yourself.
Actually the concept is easy to understand. The diameter and the length of the wire are directly proportional to its resistive value. Larger diameter and short length equates to less resistance. So, if the resistance is greater and the voltage requirement at the load remains constant the factor that changes is the current. As the current rises in its attempt to overcome the resistance the result is heat which is what actually trips the breaker.
So, when the motor starts it wants 110v and to get that via a correctly sized circuit it needs 19amps of current. If the wire in the circuit is too small or the distance too long then the additional resistance in the wire needs to be added to the resistance in the motor. The end result might be that to get the 110v to the motor might now take 20 or more amps and the time to rise to that additional current will also increase. The time and the additional current will produce more heat which will now be for a longer period of time. That longer the heat persists, the more likely the breaker is to blow. This is because breakers don't sense voltage or current, then only understand heat. This is also why a fuse melts to protect a circuit from overloading, (neat word for saying too much current required to move the free electrons).
So, you see, it could be something as simple as an extension cord that is undersized and causing the problem. If the extension cord is sized larger (bigger wire) than required then the resistance might be lowered enough to stop the breaker from blowing. When I need an extension cord I always buy one rated at 25amps or better and try to never exceed 25'. If I go over 25' I step up to the next higher rating and I never exceed 50'.
By the way, if you've ever had a whimpy extension cord go into melt down and wondered why the breaker didn't blow, you now know why... The cord is disappating the heat.
Steve - in Northern California
Edited 5/17/2002 5:47:26 PM ET by Steve Schefer
Edited 5/17/2002 5:55:30 PM ET by Steve Schefer
I have the Rigid saw and have had no problems,I bought it after reading several mag
web site reviews.Everything was square right out of the box and required very little
adjustment.It's not a cabinet saw but will work fine for the above average hobby
woodworker.Another plus was its built in the USA,the others aren't.
FWW had a short article in this month's issue, praising that unit as a value. It has a different design than most chepo table saws vis a vis the trunnions.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Tools of the Trade also did a pretty good writeup on it, praising it well above the old model.
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