Replies

1. 
   Handrubbed | Apr 20, 2006 12:43am | #1

   I find it hard to believe that a person without extensive experience and equipment could make a cutting tool that would even approach the quality and low price of the ones you saw featured in the article.  It sounds from your question like this might not be the case with you. No supplier is going to sell you the small amount of A-2 steel that would be required.  As for heat treating, how would you do that and be able to analyze the result?  Granted many of us could make a good looking tool, but it has to hold an edge, also.  Take the writer's advice an buy only the sizes you know you will need (2 chisels).

1. 
   DCarr10760 | Apr 20, 2006 02:30am | #2

   Well, not to be too argumentative, you can buy tool steel in small quantities from Mcmaster-Carr, it doesn't need to be A2, O1 is suitable also.  However, I do agree that saving money is a dubious reason to make a mortise chisel.  The steel is going to cost, you will have to figure out a way to cut it, and grind it.  You'll have to harden and temper it.  Then fit a handle.

   It all takes time.  If you figure your time at a buck an hour you might save some.

   If however you want to make a chisel for the satisfaction of having a unique tool shaped to your own satisfaction, press on.

   In the mid 1980's Eugene Langdon wrote an article in FWW about making mortise chisels.  They were made out of heavy stock, sort of a pig sticker in shape.  It was constructed like a cooking knife in that the "tang" went all the way to the end and the handle was two scales made of bronze or brass, riveted on.

   You couldn't get much more durable or simpler than that.  You might want to check it out.

   I got a 1/4-inch pig sticker made by Ray Iles from Tools for Working Wood and it's a beauty.  Personally I'd rather chop mortices than make mortice chisels so I came up with the $50.00.

   And as Handrubbed said, only get the sizes you need.

   David C.

1. 
   Ricklapp | Apr 20, 2006 11:28pm | #7

   Twasn't Gene Landon who wrote the article back then, it was Michael Podmanicky (sp?)  I actually made them and think they were a bust.  The rectangular section of the metal with exactly square sides was difficult to use; they have been dust collectors for 15 years.  I think the Iles chisels are the best things available today.  Rick

1. 
   DCarr10760 | Apr 21, 2006 02:59am | #8

   Rick,

   Your right! Michael Pod... was the one.  I can see where the rectangular section would be a problem, I suppose it would always feel like it was binding.

   I always had them on my list of things to make, but then the Iles came along and I bit.  I like them too.

   Good to hear from somebody who did make them.

   Best Regards,

   David C.

1. 
   Biscardi | Apr 21, 2006 05:20am | #9

   I inherited a bunch of old tools from a very accomplished wood worker. There are a couple of chisles he made from old planer blades. They are hard to sharpen, but keep an edge very well. If you like to do metalwork it certainly isn't an unreasonable thing to try.

   A friend of mine and I have made damask steel in the past. I bet it would make a pretty set of bench chisels.

   Frank

2. 
   DonC | Apr 21, 2006 05:47pm | #11

   http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-MORT.XX&Category_Code=TBMC

   I don't consider these prices low as you describe them. It's just a hunk of easily obtained metal with a handle.  I already got the steel for $6.00 each blank from a local tool and die shop that is 3 blocks from my house. The handle will come from my scrap barrel. The money will stay in my pocket and I will enjoy making and using them.

1. 
   AdamCherubini | Apr 21, 2006 07:15pm | #12

   Don,

   I encourage you to make your own tools.  I make many tools and enjoy the process thoroughly.  All too often what I find is that tool making, even tool design, is much more complicated than I thought.  After I spend a day making a tool, I expect it to perform and if it does not, that's when the frustration sets in.  That's happened plenty of times.

   I've not made mortising chisels.  As you know the blades aren't rectangular in cross section.  And I have no way of making a bolster of any sort. Heat treating and tempering is the easy part.  Forging and forge welding is the hard part.

   IMHO, the best mortisers are laminated which are far easier to sharpen (due to the huge bevel).  I think the laminated chisels perform better (due to shock absorption) though that could be my imagination.  On paper, they can have harder edges than non-laminated tools without creating a brittle tool.

   Not to discourage you in any way, I've never held a modern mortise chisel that could hold a candle to a $10 flea market special.  This has discouraged me from attempting to make this complicated tool. 

   Good luck with the chisels

   Adam

    

2. 
   Handrubbed | Apr 22, 2006 01:15am | #14

   If making chisels was as easy as you perceive it to be,  a person could go any number of places and buy some good ones.  I live near a Woodcraft store, which specializes in things such as woodworking chisels, and I'll be damned if they had any worth taking home.  So it appears that quality in this most simple of all tools is an elusive thing.  If you are able to produce some good ones as cheaply as you say, please don't keep them to yourself.  Please tell us how it was done.  There is a big world out there.  Read the threads about plane making and how some specialists like Philip Marcou are literally making a market for their in-fill planes on the web.  Their products are at the top of the market, however.  There definitely is room for new sources.

   Sorry to ramble...have at it, and good luck!

    

    

2. 
   lwilliams | Apr 20, 2006 03:40am | #3

   Don,

   I'm getting ready to teach a workshop which will require a 1/10" mortise chisel. I made them when I've done this before. I sold them to those who wanted to keep them for $36 and didn't break even. I'm not making them this time, another company is making them for me @ $50 retail each and I think the price is more than fair. I also know they'll be top quality.

   You can make your own and you can probably make some very good chisels. Keep in mind that I have a relatively well equipped metal shop with a mill, lathe and heat treating furnace at my disposal. If I were to try to make chisels with just a few files, I'd need a lot more free time. I'm not a blacksmith so I can't speak to the forging process but it's probably the way to go for what you want.

   I used O-1 drill rod for the chisels I've made but W-1 would work fine too. Heat treating doesn't have to be much of an issue and someday (soon I hope) I'll have some information on my web site that will take a lot of the guess work from heat treating O-1 and W-1 steels. Drill rod is about the cheapest form of tool steel and it's readily available in quantities as small as a single three foot bar.

   I use one of the chisels I made and it's a good chisel. I was sent a photo this morning of what I'll have for the workshop and I'm excited about it. It's a lot better than what I made. I don't have permission to show the sexy one but here's one I made and use almost daily.

   View Image

1. 
   DCarr10760 | Apr 20, 2006 05:40am | #4

   That's a nice looking chisel, Larry.  Post pictures of the new sexy model when you're able.

   Will these be available to the General Public or only to your workshop attendees?

   David C.

1. 
   lwilliams | Apr 20, 2006 06:17am | #5

   David,I didn't intend for that to be and advertisement. I suspect they will be available through a company who advertises here and, when they are, I'll let you know. That way I won't have any financial interest in any sales.

1. 
   DCarr10760 | Apr 20, 2006 03:10pm | #6

   Larry,

   I didn't take it as a shameless plug.  I am interested in well made tools and I guess I was a bit opportunistic.  I could be the first one on my block to have one!

   Let me know when they are available, thanks!  You can email me at [email protected]

   Best Regards,

   David C

3. 
   stevo_wis | Apr 21, 2006 06:02am | #10

   Don,

   When i was in williamsburg, I was talking with Karre who was using a pig sticker style mortise chisel. He told me that he ordered some from Tony Murland in England. Anyway, he will sell used chisels for about half including shipping to the us. They are even less if you dont care about matched sets. Anyway, i got about 9 and have about half of them sharpened and am very happy with them. You can search for Tony or if interested, i can find his address. In any case the design is a good one wherever you find or make them.

   Stevo

4. 
   old saw | Apr 21, 2006 11:06pm | #13

   Hi,

   I'm an amateur blacksmith besides having been a woodworker most of my life.   I once forged a heavy-duty woodworking chisel out of a piece of high grade re-bar scrap from a state highway project.   Most smiths and certainly most experts will tell you that re-bar is the wrong kind of steel for cutting tools, and for the most part they are right.  It doesn't generally have enough carbon content to take and hold a fine edge, but if you quench it in strong salt water or brine and use a steep bevel, it will hold up remarkably well for chopping mortises.  The fact that it doesn't  get as hard or as deeply hard as say, a piece of spring or tool steel, is a plus when levering out chips; it means the tool is not as likely to break.   This fact alone is especially a plus for anyone who lacks experience forging and heat treating tools.

   I made mine for remodeling work and intended for striking with a two-pound steel hammer; therefore I didn't put a wood handle on it.  The shank could be wrapped with a length of leather thong for comfort, I suppose.    I started with a piece of five-eights inch bar about eight to ten inches long which I repeatedly heated and hammered 'til I got one end of it to resemble a chisel.  I shaped as much of the bevel as I could by hammering.  That made for a fine grain structure in the steel. I let it cool slowly on the hearth and then filed it the rest of the way to shape.  It's easy enough to file, but if you do a good enough job of forging, you won't have to file much.  Be sure while you are forging not to strike the steel except when it is dull red or hotter.  Black hot steel will often crack internally or externally when hammered.

   I filed the bevel of the tool until I had an edge about one thirty-secondth to one sixteenth of an inch thick.  then I heated it to cherry red and quenched it in a quart of brine that I keep for the purpose.  Brine is a drastic quench, but is needed for a steel of lower carbon content such as this; don't use it on spring or tool steel, because they will crack.  Heat the metal 'til a magnet will not stick to it.  Heat only about an inch of its length, and if you have never tried this before, you might want to  try plain water instead.

   Steel this low in carbon shouldn't need to have temper colors drawn, but it wouldn't hurt to be on the safe side.  When I did mine I drew the end of it to a bronze color.  I was not able to finish the bevel by filing; the metal was too hard.  I gently ground and honed it instead.  The chisel I made was not meant for mortising per se, but I have experimented by using it to chop a mortise in rock maple.  The edge held up remarkably well.  If you make one, don't spend alot of time on the first one trying to make it pretty - it may end up as wasted effort , if the thing breaks or cracks.  Concentrate on making it down and dirty, rough and ready functional at first.  Subsequent tools can be "pretty".

   He that welds steel in a wood fire may accomplish anything.