Replies

1. 
   Pondfish | Jan 20, 2006 07:00pm | #1

   I've had no problems sanding at any angle using H&L, except when the sanding pad is designed for PSA paper...

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
2. 
   RickL | Jan 20, 2006 07:59pm | #2

   No way h & l paper will come off that easy. Sounds like a worn or bad pad.

1. 
   blaster | Jan 20, 2006 08:20pm | #4

   the sanders are new, maybe 2 hrs on each one, paper is new but the slightest angle on either unit just flies off. Alighnment of paper and sanders are correct. It has made me go back to glue paper even though it is certainly more expensive to use since if you change grits you can only reuse the paper one time most times.

1. 
   mlwood | Jan 20, 2006 09:16pm | #5

   Thanks for asking this question.  I have this problem too.  I bought a porter cable random orbit sander and have had problems with the paper staying on from the beginning.  I've pretty much given up on it and mostly plane and scrape with a very little hand sanding.  Could a brand new sander possibly have a bad pad?  I'd like to use this sander if I could get it to work.  I bought my sander at HD.  Is that where I'd go for a new pad?

2. 
   AlanMikkelsen | Jan 20, 2006 09:16pm | #6

   I've seen some h&l discs that were of an extremely heavy weight material and they had a pretty good cup to them.  They wouldn't hold to my sanders, either.  Normal weight paper, no problem.Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934,  Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT

3. 
   BoardmanWI | Jan 21, 2006 04:17am | #7

   blaster - somethings way wrong here.  I've got a Rigid and I have to really pull on the sanding discs when I change them.  I could sand edges, corners, anything, and I've never had one come off.

   Compare the hook pad you've got to another mfr. and see if there's a difference.

3. 
   ChipTam | Jan 20, 2006 08:07pm | #3

   As RickL suggests, it sounds like a worn pad.  Depending on how often you use the sander and how much pressure you apply to it, the pad usually lasts 1-3 years from my experience.

   ChipTam

4. 
   mrbird90 | Jan 21, 2006 05:23am | #8

   I have a Bosch orbitral sander and I cannot use Klingspore paper as it only flies off after a few minutes of use. I have over 50 discs which are unuseable. Bought Bosch paper and have had no problems. Bosh did say that over time that heat build up causes the hook & loop to loose its holding power. Once this happens, you need to replace the pad. I have to replace the pad about every 2 years.

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 22, 2006 10:22am | #11

   Klingspor sells more than one kind of paper, and some of it is "economy."  Which type/grade were you using?  I've never had any problem at all with K's paper, and it takes some oomph to get it off.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Dave45 | Jan 22, 2006 05:30pm | #12

   Is the pad on the sander full of dust?  I've never had a disc fly off, but if the sander pad is dusty they don't "stick" as well.  A quick blast from the compressor hose usually fixes the problem.

2. 
   mrbird90 | Jan 22, 2006 08:03pm | #13

   I do not have the original package any more but the individual disc says Klingspor, made in Germany and PL31 and the grit designation 150. Is this the cheap one or their better grade. The hook and loop looks like velvet and has no griping power. It is the worst paper I have ever used and I have tried many different brands, I am not impressed with their papers. Check out Industrial Abrasives in PA. they are on the internet. Once you use their products you will never want to go back to Klingspor.

1. 
   blaster | Jan 23, 2006 03:11pm | #14

   im in the house now and its raining or i would go to the garage and get the brand name of the paper. it is the one that lowes has a national contract with, red and white pachaging. Have tried all grits  from 40 to 220 . The backside has a white soft non-tacking cloth,very velvety to the touch. maybe ill order some very expensive paper and get some hours out of this tool. done tried the returning tool trick and they tell me i dont know how to use. been working wood for 32 yrs, i Know one learns everyday but the learning curve on sandpaper should be a no-brainer.wish i knew how to enter pictures of my pieces but dont. looks a lot like the early contributions of the Japanese guy in the very earliest "fine woodworking editions"

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Jan 23, 2006 07:57pm | #16

   I've got the 6" PC ROS w/ hook&loop. I have always just used the PC-branded paper, pretty much all the grits from 80 on down (up?) to 320. I have NEVER had a piece come off, even after sanding with a piece until it's reduced to paper fuzz! ;-)  In fact, it's a bit of a chore to take the stuff off it holds so tight & I often tip the unit to sand on the edge to clean up a rough spot here & there. Something us up with your disk or your paper. Try the maker's brand and see if that helps.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

5. 
   mikegagne | Jan 21, 2006 07:26am | #9

   blaster, it sounds like time to change the pad on your orbital. The hooks are worn out.

   aloha, mike

6. 
   ring | Jan 21, 2006 09:37am | #10

   I agree with everyone who said that something is wrong here.  I have 2 Festool 6" sanders that get used hard in every possible position.  The pads last for several hundred hours of "flight time".  When the paper starts to fly off we change the pad, and go back to work.

   DR

7. 
   Garry | Jan 23, 2006 07:45pm | #15

   Try Mirka paper.

   http://www.superwoodworks.com

8. 
   saulgood | Jan 25, 2006 08:03pm | #17

   It seems to me that a combonation of a soft pad, a stiff disc and worn or incompatible h&l are your problem. when you angle the pad against the wood it pries the disc like a bottle cap. By the time you've watched the "frisbee" streak across the room, you've probably worn the hooks even more by running them against the material

   Here are some things i've noticed about ROS/ hook and loop:

   -There are many brands of paper offered, some are way better than others. The cheaper ones (bargain) are not really a better deal.

   - "hook and loop" is a generic term and there are different sized "hooks" and "loops". You need to find a compatible brand of disc for your sander, and buy a lot of it.

   -just one "flyoff", if not immediately noticed, can ruin the pad in a couple of seconds.
   If the pad is ruined, though, you can fix it in a pinch with adhesive backed hook and loop patches from any drug store. Cut it into strips to fit between the holes. as long as the pad is relatively smooth and clean to start with, The strips will stick.

   I've been surprised by how well this has worked, and how little surface area of hooks were required. Of course, the hook and loop's grab will overcome the adhesive's pretty quickly as you change the discs, unless you use add.'l cement.

   -when choosing a ROS, make sure you can easily find discs that work well with it. Bosch sells "contractor packs" (25 discs) for five and six inch pads, and I find this to be the best deal (they also work well on my Dewalt sander), but almost NO One carries the larger (6") discs (not even the store where I bought the sander!)

   the ROS/ h&l system is my favorite, and I believe the most effective because of it's ability to remove it's own dust. Once you work this out, you'll be happy with it.
   -

9. 
   outyonder | Jan 26, 2006 01:33am | #18

   I had the same problem some time ago and replaced my pad,  it wasn't,t long before it need replacing again. I ask the guys at Highland Hardware Store?

    When your sanding you heat up the h&l and it soften the bristles, if you rip the pad off as soon as you turn off the sander the bristles pull out and cool down in a elongated shape. After several of elongating they will not hold a disc. Solution when you turn off the sander wait up to 10 seconds if your doing heavy pressure sanding or only a small area of the pad is sanding. Before ripping off the pad  let it cool down. use less time for light sanding. It's cured my problem except when some one new pick up my sander....

1. 
   WhatKnot | Jan 26, 2006 05:54am | #19

   Dang it, just when I think I have the answer someone beats me too it. LOL.. There are three things that cause the flying sauce syndrome. Most commonly its bad paper. Mirka, Porter Cable (made by Mirka) and Bosch are the best because the backing is thicker and not only provides a deeper hook it also runs cooler. To keep the paper from heating up as badly you need to keep it clean and you need to let the sander do the work. Use the appropriate grit of paper and don't try to gorrilla the sander it not only heats up the pad but it also causes major bearing damage over time. To clear your paper, use a rubber eraser stick on the paper frequently.

   As a bonus, if you take the above measures, you shouldn't have to wait for the pad to cool off between paper changes.

    Steve

   "You can either be smart or pleasant, I was once smart but now I'm pleasant. I like being pleasant better." Jimmy Stewart - Harvey

1. 
   saulgood | Jan 26, 2006 07:55pm | #20

   >"you need to let the sander do the work." Exactly right. With any sanding, even by hand, The paper cuts better with less pressure because it has to be allowed to "clear" the dust as it goes. But it's natural to want to bear down, so I'm always reminding myself to "lighten up".

   I like to think of a sander like any cutting tool, and listen to the motor to monitor myself. If the RPMs drop as I move around the piece, I know I'm working too hard. If the tool has a "trigger" (as opposed to on/off switch), I lock it on and try to use only my fingertips to steer. Not only does this allow the tool to do a better job, but at the end of the day both me and the tool are much less tired. BTW, I never thought about the "hot hook" phenomenon, but that makes perfect sense. I'm going to start paying attention to that and let the pad cool (probably better for the motor, as well!).