Replies

1. 
   RalphBarker | Jul 12, 2009 06:58pm | #1

   I've heard tales of Texas ranchers equipping their long-horn steers with hornbeams, so they don't stumble into gopher holes at night. ;-)

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 14, 2009 08:27pm | #13

   Ralph.. very funny..

   I have seen and ever ridden on the back of a old Longhorn (or was it a Brahma bull?) Very gentle animals if you did not mess with it.. If it looked at you any way funny... BACK OFF slowly and then run like hell!

   I was thinkin' hornbeams were flashlights on the horns...

   A horse one saved me from a old Brahma.. In Texas for fun we would rent a horse # Very expensive as I remember.. About $2.00 for the day.. OK, we had to care for the horse after we came back... You know, Walk, Brush, Feed...  and whatever it took for the horse to relax... All were true, what I call a Cow Pony... Very well trained and put up with this stupid yank that did not abuse her... I always got the same horse... The farmer/rancher? asked us to gently run the Brahma's Whatever... For about 1/2 hour.. He said let the horse do the work and hold on!

   I did not really know what 'hold on' meant. I KNEW after the first ride!

   We/ she mostly..  were running a few Brahama's. One stood the ground and charged... I fell off my horse when she bolted? ... I thought in a few seconds I would be dead! The horse came back in-between us and somehow got the angry animal to back off...

   I spent extra hours .. Cleaning, Brushing, and walking her... I even bought her a new saddle blanket... I did not realize they were that expensive at the time!  Money well spent...

   That horse was like my lovely wife that I adored! Saved my butt a few times! My wife smelled much better!

   Edited 7/14/2009 1:34 pm by WillGeorge

2. 
   dkellernc | Jul 12, 2009 07:13pm | #2

   Bob - American hornbeam is entirely suitable for wooden handplanes, as it is a very close cousin to European hornbeam in growth habits and wood properties.  European hornbeam was a wood of choice in Germany and parts of Scandanavia - perhaps because European beech was cut-over in the 19th century, but perhaps because machine tools allowed it to be worked more efficiently.  It is frighteningly hard compared to beech - it even exceeds sugar maple in hardness, which is a wood well known to hand-tool workers as being a pain to work (but rewarding nonetheless because of its figure and durability).

   Here's a Janka hardness scale:

   http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm

   You'll notice that true Lignum Vitae is noted in the table as being about 20 on the Janka hardness scale - in other words, about the same as granite. ;-)  But there are plenty of Lignum Vitae antique planes out there, so hardness doesn't automatically disqualify a wood as being unsuitable for wooden plane building.

   I have dried American hornbeam (Carpinus Caroliniana) for use in various projects as we have it in abundance in North Carolina.  In my opinion, it dries about as well as maple - one just needs to make the sawn blank about twice as long as needed so that end-checks don't ruin the project.  In my hands, it will end-check regardless of whether the end-grain has been painted, though painting seems to lessen the problem.  It seems to dry relatively quickly - usually one summer's worth of outdoor storage as a sawn or split blank no more than 5" thick in width or depth, followed by about 3 months indoor storage in the shop.

1. 
   derekcohen | Jul 13, 2009 04:30am | #5

   Hi David

   Thanks for that link. It helps give me an idea of relative hardness ... although one must remember that it is an average rating. Some examples are harder and some softer.

   Often we run into misinunderstandings about tools, techniques, etc because the woods we use across continents differ quite widely. These lists offer some way of bridging this distance.

   I was given a piece of Hickory, large enough to build the jack I have been planning for a while (with a 1/4" thick D2 blade! This is for our abrasive woods). I was wondering whether it would be appropriate. Using it this  way would be a nice way of remembering the gift.

   US White Oak 6.0 (for reference)

   American Hornbeam rates 7.9

   Hickory rates 8.1  ..... which is not as hard as the woods I typically work in Oz.

   Jarrah rates 8.5

   Karri rates 9.1

   Perhaps I should use Ironbark (14) or .. OMG ... Wando (15). Even floorers balk at laying (sawing) the latter timber! http://www.worldwideflood.com/ark/wood/timber_list.htm

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   dkellernc | Jul 13, 2009 04:58pm | #11

   "I was given a piece of Hickory, large enough to build the jack I have been planning for a while (with a 1/4" thick D2 blade! This is for our abrasive woods). I was wondering whether it would be appropriate. Using it this  way would be a nice way of remembering the gift."

   My guess is that you will find hickory workable because of the comparison to the unbelievably hard hardwoods you've got down under.  But in the US, hickory is very, very rare to see in an antique plane.  It was (and is) very commonly used for tool handles that had to tolerate shock - like heavy framing chisels, axes, hatchets, and adzes.  The reason is that it is very close to unsplittable when it's dry, but you can work it when it's green.  And I suspect the Janka scale for Hickory in particular may be very misleading, as the hardness dramatically as it dries.  I've certainly heard the term "hard as glass" applied to dry hickory.

   And you've a point about the property measurement tables for woods.  Besides tree-to-tree variations, the Janka hardness scale can be misleading.  For example, I find that Gabon Ebony planes quite nicely, but a lot of rosewood species that theoretically have about the same Janka hardness scale rating, or are softer, don't.  And while beech is pretty close to so-called "soft maple" on the Janka scale, I find that there's a huge difference between the two from the standpoint of chiseling, mortising and planing - beech is a lot easier to work.

2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 13, 2009 01:00pm | #7

   Thanks David,

   Very useful information.  I have used the janka hardness table you cited when working for a flooring company several years ago.  I heard of its use for tool handles (LN chisels) a while back as Glaucon pointed out in his post.  For some reason I thought it was/is a lot harder though.

   Thanks for the insight/experiences drying it.  The pieces that I thought would be useful have been stacked in a lower part of the woodpile hoping it will dry more slowly thus minimizing end checking.  I've not worked this wood before so am not sure what to expect.

   There were numerous small unsplit pieces that I'm hoping to turn into chisel handles for some old chisels I bought several years ago.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

3. 
   Glaucon | Jul 12, 2009 08:21pm | #3

   I believe that LN makes their chisel handles of hornbeam.

   Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

4. 
   VTAndy_ | Jul 13, 2009 04:05am | #4

   I made an 18" Krenov-style plane out of hophornbeam -- it would also make a great plane sole if you can get a piece big enough to make the entire plane.
   -Andy

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 13, 2009 01:09pm | #8

   Hi Andy,

   I saw several of your posts when searching here in Knots for information on hornbeam.  I'm curious as to the difference between hophornbeam and hornbeam or is it just different names for the same wood?

   When stacking the wood it seemed that the (hop)hornbeam was noticeably heavier than similarly sized pieces of wood of different species.  Not sure if it was because of moisture content.

   Would you happen to have some pics of the plane you made?

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   VTAndy_ | Jul 13, 2009 02:44pm | #10

   I've never posted an image to this forum before, but I'll give it a shot. Hophornbeam and hornbeam are different: ostrya virginiana and carpinus carolinea if I remember correctly. The latter is very light through and through, whereas the hophornbeam has beautiful coffee-color swirling through the heartwood. Both are call "ironwood" in my neck of the woods, and I would imagine that this is true in your area as well.
   Well, hopefully the attachment will show up. If not, I'll try again later when I return from my morning work on the farm!
   -Andy

   
1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 14, 2009 04:59am | #12

   Andy,

   That plane is slicker'n a trout!  Thanks for posting the pic.

   Also thanks for the explanation of hop and no hop hornbeam.  The pieces have the coffee swirls in the heartwood so must be the hophornbeam.

   Tink, the guy I bought the firewood from, calls it level wood; never heard of that before.  Maybe a local name?

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

5. 
   pzaxtl | Jul 13, 2009 07:36am | #6

   Bob,

   I'm curious as to what relationship Hornbeam has to a woodie?

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jul 13, 2009 01:25pm | #9

   pz,

   Uh, not sure where you're headed with that........  Too bad Jon Arno wasn't still with us; I'm sure he would have an appropriate response.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!