How about adding colored shellac directly to dyed-stained wood?
Hi All,
I’m curious about adding colored shellac to dye stained pine (TransTint + water, added with foam brush). The relatively non-porous “late wood” (i.e., darker bands) doesn’t accept the dye-stain very well, creating a two-toned color of grayish-brown early-wood [which I like = 🙂 ] against a provocative orangish-brown-colored late wood (which I don’t care for = 🙁 ]. An example photo is attached.
The typical method, based on my reading, would be to add a coat of shellac (or other finish) to the dyed wood, then to lay down some colored shellac on top of the first coat of shellac. Why not skip the first coat of uncolored shellac and just add the colored shellac directly to the dyed wood?
In other words:
Method A = dye stain wood, add coat of shellac, add coat of colored shellac
Method B = dye stain wood, add coat of colored shellac
Is Method A better than Method B? If so, I wonder why? Method B is easier and doesn’t create as much build up of shellac. Less build up of shellac is good for me because its ambering effect adds complication to my color-matching process.
Thanks.
Replies
The un-tinted shellac works as a sealer. It limits the amount of color that the early wood will absorb.
I use tinted shellac on some turnings to bring a amber or reddish tone to otherwise plain white woods like ash. I do not use a first clear coat, why bother. Tinted shellac does not act like a dye or a stain, more like a thin coloured layer that does not hide the wood figures.
As FiveBirds states, the barrier coat will protect your dye and keep it from being lifted or smeared. This coat will also act as an isolation layer between the films. This can have interesting effects; a coating over the piece rather than a deep finish in the piece.
Use your colorants prior to any top coat or sealer to 'lock in' the look you have. For me adding colorants as a layer gives an M&M's candy shell look to things.
It all depends on the look you are after. As ALWAYS in finishing, test boards will answer your questions definitively. Same material, same surface prep protocol and document your mixes and applications. This let's you re-create #4 when someone changes their mind the next day ;-)
Thanks everyone,
I guess my answer will only come through more testing. I agree with and understand your comments. I think Gulfstar touched on the central part of my original question. If I know that I want to add tinted shellac over dyed wood, i.e. to add a "toner", why bother first sealing the dyed surface with an untinted shellac? I get that the untinted shellac "acts to seal the wood and seal in the dye" but it seems like tinted shellac would also accomplish that.
Depends on if you are spraying or some other method of applying the color shellac. I have done this several time recently when wanting a deeper color that I could get with stain or dye alone. If you are applying the color shellac mechanically (brush, pad, etc) then you need a spray coat (rattle can works) of clear to lock in the stain or dye. Otherwise, it is likely to smear. I have always sprayed all coats. So, I forgo the first clear coat.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks Bilyo. That makes sense. Wish I was set up to do spray work.
I just tried adding colored shellac directly to a pine test board using a brush. I used 1 part dye to 200 parts shellac (by volume). The test board did not have an initial wash coat added (I typically do add a wash coat, 3/4-lb cut shellac). I got very bad splotchiness from the dye wicking into pores of the wood, and a bad looking result overall. So I learned from this that I need to add an initial coat of uncolored shellac before adding the toner. Maybe a good initial wash coast would suffice. Again, I was using a brush. Maybe if I was spraying I would not have gotten the splotchy results as Bilyo pointed out.
Thanks.
I have been meaning to try this using water based poly or polycrylic. Haven't done it yet. You might try that and see if it works better than shellac. Please let me know ;>)
so, why not just add the (alcohol based) dye to the shellac and skip the first two steps? I've done that and been satisfied with the look.
If you want a lighter wood to have a darker finish, it helps to put the dye on first and then add the colored finish. That is my limited experience. Not saying that what you suggest is impossible.
@stantheman - Dye applied to bare wood penetrates and becomes very strong in the color mixed. This color really jumps when a top coat is applied.
Tinted shellac keeps the colorants suspended and the penetration, and therefor the intensity can be reduced. Neither is wrong, they just present different results.
Did anyone say . . . test boards ;-))
That is what I get with ruby shellac flakes compared to sealcoat applied on the lathe using the French polish recipie. Using rotten stone as grain filler also accentuated the growth rings.
https://www.kamapigment.com/kama-products/shellac-in-flakes/ruby-dewaxed-shellac-flakes.html
@stantheman - In regard to your suggestion (comment #8) to add colored shellac directly to wood-- I tried this yesterday (described in my comment #6) and got a type of "splotchiness" in color that I hadn't quite encountered before. It could have been my wood or lack of initial wash coat or seal coat (my bad...). The splotchiness was fine in texture. My theory was that it was caused by the wood drawing the dye into its pores through a type of wicking action? Just a guess. If I had first wash coated or sealed the wood maybe the outcome would have been more favorable. Also, as GeeDubBee stated above, the color was way different than the color I got when I added the dye to the wood in a water solution. That surprised me. Still trying to figure out why that would be.
I defer to the test board. @GeeDubBee. Yes, I agree with what you said. But noting that the OP didn't say that enhancing the grain was a goal. Rather, the opposite - reducing contrast between early and late grain (its pine). I cant get past the seal coat which would be expected to prevent penetration by the dye. @old_wood-guy, perhaps I misunderstood when you said colored shellac, I thought you meant garnet or amber shellac, but you meant shellac with dye mixed in.
@stantheman - By "colored shellac" I meant shellac with dye mixed in. Sorry about that.
I really like garnet shellac. It adds a nice color to both pine and cherry. Below is a photo of big box store pine with about 6 or 7 coats of 1 to 2 lb cut amber shellac. The image does a good job of representing what I see by eye.
@joeleonetti,
That looks nice, thanks. Did you choose a 1-2 lb cut of shellac for a particular reason?
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