Replies

1. 
   Dave45 | May 25, 2007 04:26pm | #1

   Here's a picture of one of my desk pedestals.  The large drawer is a lateral file drawer with a 12" x 23" solid drawer front.  I made it about 6 yrs ago and it's never given me any problems.

   
2. 
   mudman | May 25, 2007 04:42pm | #2

   Sounds like your doors will be inset. Most cabinet makers use a 3/32" to 1/8" gap between the door and face frame for kitchens. This dosent leave much room for expansion. It is unlikely that you will have a problem with an 8" drawer, but you should check what the expansion numbers are for the species you will be using on the "shrinkulator". And make sure you check the MC before you size the drawers. If possible keep a board of the same species in your home and use its MC as the reference.

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

1. 
   orko | May 25, 2007 06:31pm | #3

   Yes, they're inset doors. If they were overlay doors it wouldn't bother me, since I could size the overlay to fit in both summer and winter.The thing I suppose I'm concerned about is that if I size these to fit in summer and they're super-wide they'll shrink so much in winter that it'll leave an ugly gap. So I think my question really is "how much movement is cosmetically unacceptable?".I tried the shrinkulator and didn't quite get it, but I looked at Christian Becksvoort's article (FWW #187). Moisture content in my area goes from ~7% in the winter to ~14% in the summer (I'm in Massachusetts just north of Rhode Island), so on a 12" drawer I expect 0.35", or about 3/8" of movement, or 3/16" on each of {top, bottom}.So on a solid drawerfront, I'm going to get almost 1/4" movement on each side, which means in the winter I'll have close to a 3/8" gap (1/4" seasonal + 1/8" minimal gap).Does that sound right?3/8" each side seems too big for me, so I'll probably end up putting a frame around anything 9" or larger.orko

1. 
   WNYguy | May 26, 2007 12:22am | #4

   Depending on the finish you're using, if the drawer front is well-sealed on all edges, front and back, I think that goes a long way to minimize seasonal expansion/contraction.

   There's an exellent discussion of these factors in Hoadley's book, "Understanding Wood." ( Understanding Wood: A Craftsman's Guide to Wood Technology by R. Bruce Hoadley )

   And I think you're correct about minimizing the number of frame-and-panel drawer fronts.  They never look right to me.  I would much sooner install frame-and-panel doors that open to expose shallow pull-outs.

   Although I've read at least one very negative commentary on that approach: "Why open and pull, when I could just pull?"

   Allen

2. 
   mudman | May 26, 2007 03:22am | #5

   Was that for the specific species you are using? That sounds high. I've built tables that didnt move that much. Regaurdless I would use 5 piece construction on anything other than the top drawer (4 to 5 inches).Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

3. 
   AdamCherubini | May 26, 2007 03:57am | #6

   I think you should design to what you need to store. Make sure the drawers are big enough for the fry baby or crock pot. Then, use my 9/16 rule to set drawer spacing. I wrote an article in another magazine on this subject. If you can't find it, email me. Basically for a 4 drawer cabinet, set the split between the 2nd and 3rd drawers at either golden section or 9/16, then divide the resulting spaces by 9/16. Whatever those drawers work out to, they work out to. For deeper drawers, just fake it. You can have a drawer with multiple drawer fronts. I did this in my kitchen and it looks great. One trick- I screwed cherry fronts to a box. Because there is a small gap between the fronts, I painted the front of the drawer black before I screwed on the fronts.

   Also- one other thing I'm proud of and get a lot of oohs and aahhs- I made one cabinet, drawer on top, raised panel door under, to match an adjacent cabinet but the whole thing pulls out on 2 sets of drawer slides to hold a full sized kitchen trash can and a smaller office trash can we use for recycling.

   Adam

1. 
   Dave45 | May 26, 2007 04:46pm | #7

   I did something similar on my kitchen cabs.  The "door" on the lower cabinet to the left of the dishwasher is actually a drawer front.  The drawer holds the trash/recycling bags.

   My original plan was to make some plastic bins for the trash and recycled stuff.  I "temporarily" used paper grocery bags and never bothered with the plastic bins.  Three grocery bags fit perfectly in the drawer - as though I had planned for it all along. - lol

   I'm having trouble believing 3/8" expansion/contraction.  I do a lot of inset doors and drawer fronts and usually shoot for gaps of 1/8", or less.  I've never had a binding problem that was caused by temperature/humidity changes.  Maybe living in CA has spoiled me, but it just hasn't been an issue.  All of my doors and drawer fronts get finished with polyurethane on all six surfaces (front, back, and edges) and seem to be virtually impervious to moisture.

   I built these kitchen cabinets when we remodeled about 8-9 years ago and it was my first attempt at making solid, raised panel, doors.  There has been a slight separation between the rails and stiles on a couple of the doors over the stove (I should have taken another 1/16" off of the width), and the face frame of the upper cab over the coffee pot (to the right of the sink) separated slightly about five years ago.  I attribute these problems to the combination of heat and moisture near the appliances.

   
4. 
   terrylee86 | May 27, 2007 03:17pm | #8

   I ran into a similar problem when I designed four pots and pans drawers for my kitchen out of black walnut. My drawers are inset and a 14 x 36 I was very concerned about wood movement across the width of such a large drawer face. I solved my problem by using doors as drawer fronts. My design is Shaker panel doors so I turned them horizontal for drawer fronts and it looks great and I have no problem with gaps or drawers sticking.

   Terry